moonslav59

Yes. What's the point in crying over losing Bogey, when it might end up being the right thing to do? It's what we do, here. What ifs and WTFs?

Id Goodrum a real drop off from Park and Downs, though? He does have a career +2.8 UZR/150 and was +5 in DRS from 2020-2021 at SS. (he's -3 career in 1200 innings.) Bogey is +0.9 UZR/150 career and -50 DRS in 10,390 innings, which is a worse DRS per inning than Goodrum. His career 85 OPS+ and 68, the last 3 seasons, worries me more than his D.

Could it be true that the Sox really wanted Bogey, badly, but felt he was not worth more than say, $200M/8? They felt they could get him at that price and were wrong, or that price was really close to what Borass demanded a couple months ago, and they were just blown out of the water by the SD offer, at the last minute? It's possible, they never lied about wanting Bogey or him being a top priority, but their offers always came up short- possibly just a tiny bit short, until the SD offer widened the gap by much more than they'd ever have offered? Is this "misreading the room" or just a normal negotiation where our offer never met an acceptable level to get the deal done? Are we sure not signing Bogey was a clear mistake? We outbid everyone for Price. Most felt it was a necessary overpay, and how do we think about that signing, now? Could we feel the same about Bogey in 7-8 years? We might end up thinking we dodged a bullet. We might end up finding out what we could have had him for 2 years ago, 1 year ago of a few months ago and say, WOW! What a complete blunder! Would we still be crying about Lester had he sucked with the Cubs?

Make up your mind: did we never want Bogey, or did we want him, but Bloom "read the room wrong" and convinced JH & Co. we wanted Bogey and could get him at a price that never materialized?

The thing is, to me, they hired Bloom specifically to do what he's been doing. They did not hire him to continue like DD, and he talked them out of it by saying, "No, let's cut the budget and build the farm, instead. Can I prove this? No, but I'd love to hear someone provide evidence it's true. JH & Co. saw the writing on the wall in 2019, IMO. They knew they stretched their resources, and like many of us, felt the winning window they created would and should have lasted longer than the 3 years it did. They started putting the brakes on spending in 2019, and DD likely balked. They probably truly believed they had a core of players that could keep them winning, or at least be semi-competitive as they worked on building the farm back up. Notice no significant prospects were traded after the 2018 deadline trades that brought us Nate, Kinsler and Pearce. The rebuild process started 1.5 years before Bloom's arrival. Some differences in opinion likely occurred and DD was shown the door. They hired a GM to do two things, again in my opinion, one- rebuild the farm to a point where a steady flow of meaningful prospects could be counted on and expected and two- to build up the 40 man roster depth that was in shambles after 2019. All of this, while operating under strict budget limits until last winter/spring, when he was allowed to sign Story (which really wasn't all that "large" or "long" of a deal.) They felt he would excel at finding functional players at low or moderate cost. He found a few in Schreiber, Arroyo, Refsnyder, Strahm, Kike, Wacha and Hill, but he swung and missed on Richards, Perez I, Perez II (too bad no Perez III), Marwin, Andriese, Paxton, Diekman and countless even lower cost scrubs that formed a revolving door of failures after failures. The idea was to try and stay competitive through the rebuild. I don't think they lied about that. Other than 2020, when Sale and ERod were both on the shelf, all year, and Betts & Price were forced to be traded, the talk on this site was more of less about us thinking we had a chance to make the playoffs. We did b etter than that in 2021 and failed miserably in 2022, despite it appearing like B loom made more plus moves (Wacha, Hill, Strahm & Schreiber) than minus ones (Renfroe, Paxton, Diekman). Unlike many here, I hesitate to "blame Henry." Sure, I wish he'd spend more, but it's his money and he's showed he spends it more than 75% of other GMs and seems to plan plurges when it seems like the moment is ripe for the next ring. I certainly can not blame him for thinking after 2019 or 2020 was "that time" to splurge, despite the windows closing on Betts (2020) and Bogey (2020) with the Devers window fast approaching (2023.) He saw the condition the 40 man roster and farm were in and IMO, rightfully decided now is not "the time." He'd have to have spent enormous amounts of money to get us to the ring level, which would have hurt our farm building efforts due to penalties, and yes, lower draft picks, too. He chose not to spend, wildly. If people want to throw blame, yes JH needs to be included in the group effort. I just see this whole blame Bloom, JH & Co. things as being over-the-top. Many arguments are logical and understandable- like we pay the highest ticket prices and have a top 6-7 budget, we should be winning more, but I sense a feeling of entitlement and exceptionalism going on among many Sox fans. Call us "spoiled" or worse like some whacko poster called them "crybaby fans," but we've had a nice ride over the last 2 decades, despite all the last place finishes. I would not trade these last 20 years for the previous 30 or 40, even with a gun to my head. What's the direction, many ask. To me, it's obvious: build up the farm and 40 man roster depth to a point where we feel adding a few high-priced players would put us over the top. I thought we were real close, this winter. I felt we could reset and still become a top contender. Maybe, I was naive, and the explosion of contracts for the best of the best put a crimp in who I felt we could have added and how many, but here we are after adding 5 key players and we still see 3 big holes, so maybe they were right about us needing 7-9 players, this winter and $80M turned out to be way less than what was needed. I like the direction of the team, and realize I may be in a minority of one. (Kimmi? Are you here?) But, our farm and 40 man roster look much stronger than 2019-2020. It may turn out it's all a mirage, but we tried. It looks better, on paper, and now we await the results on the field. I'm hopeful the rumblings from Six Nation lights a fire under JH to spend more, but I don't ever expect 3 years in a row over the tax line, so I'm fine with that aspect of "the plan" and thinking this winer's reset makes more sense than next winter. I'm also seeing improvement at many slots going into 2023. I'm optimistic those improvements can outweigh the losses at SS and SP1 and SP3, but there is still a couple months left and about $38M to spend, so maybe even those slots won't look as bad as they do, right now.

According to soxprospects.com, Niko Goodrum. (They have Koss at 3B, but he may be able to fill in at SS for a game or two, if needed.) Rafaela has been playing OF, but he could be used at SS, if we don't mind rushing him. I agree, we need a SS, SP and CF/RF.

Very well said. I will add that is should not be hard or costly to find someone as good or better than Park & Downs. I agree, we need some OF depth and not at LF. A defensive whiz in CF/RF without much of a bat may not be too costly, either. The solid 1/2 SP is the kicker. Kluber might be a 3/4, and Nate about the same. Andrus probably wants 3 years and can get it. I'd sign him to 3, if there is not a no trade clause involved. We do not have to trade a top prospect for M Rojas (SS) or M Taylor (CF) and then sign 2 from Kluber, Nate and Fulmer, which could just be enough to force a Brasier DFA.

That very well might be the case, and I've said all along, they might not have been lying when they said that. None of this means the two pints I just mentioned are not true, either. 1. They never offered the market rate at any point. and/or 2. The obvious one: they never offered a number BorA$$ would accept, at any point. Neither of these mean they did not want him or want him badly, or even think they might still get him at slightly below the market rate had some clown GM not b usted the bank over him.

Another head-scratcher.

Story could be a fine SS, but I would not risk blowing out his arm. He should be better on D than Bogey, at SS, especially with no shift, anymore. Kike is fine at 2B but not as good as Story. Who plays CF? Ref or Dugo? YUCK! If Story plays SS, I'd rather just go with Arroyo & EValdez at 2B.

Who finishes 2nd to Devers in OPS+? Yoshida? Turner? Casas? Verdugo or Kike?

Who gets more IP in 2023? Whitlock or Bello? Pivetta or Sale + Paxton? Jansen or Martin? Schreiber or Barnes? Mata or Brasier? Kelly or German?

We are not including Sale, so yes, it should be better, although Verdugo was a pretty prized player, at the time, and Downs was a consensus top 100. They both did not come through as hoped, but it's always somewhat of a guessing game with any trade. I'm not sure getting Graterol, instead moves the needle, much, nor the reported Padres offer. Maybe we could have held out for more. Maybe not. I do wonder what we get without Half-Price sewn to Betts' back..

It's sad that you didn't hear it here, either, except in your twisted brain. And, you have no idea where I hang out- like listening to Boston talk sports radio is "the place to be." LMAO. Again, more strawman. I never even came close to even implying our troubles are because of Richards and Perez. You'd think you'd know my position by now, even if you disagree. You are arguing against the same strawman over and over. My whole point is that the situation was beyond what any GM could solve in 3 short years. That in no way implies we are where we are because 2 of Bloom's worst 6 moves were Perez and Richards. Your logic is as twisted as your understanding of the English language. You assume it's a given we are where we are today because of Bloom, so you assume every point made is through your own personal lense. You can't even grasp my position enough to respond in a rational way. It's got me cracking up laughing. (Seriously, my wife just asked me what's so funny.) If you'd said my "narrative" has been about the slashed budget and Houck in 5 years, you'd at least be warmer. You truly have no clue, except maybe on how to argue with phantoms.

Some don't get this fact. They actually think Bloom is choosing not to pay what the big guys want. They actually think DD would have talked JH into spending more and allowing him to trade more prospects for the "here and now." One thinks Bloom convinced top brass that Bogey was not worth more and that he'd rather have Arroyo at 2B than Bogey at SS. One think we actually had a chance at winning despite slashing the budget from the 2019 roster while only adding Houck from the farm in 5 years. Nope, 3 years is enough. We haven't won, so it has to be his fault, because he couldn't possibly be wrong about expecting a much better team under these circumstances. Throw blame on others, so people won't look at you. It's a pretty common thing going on, these days. I'm fine with people being pissed at the whole Sox management hierarchy, but I happen to think they realized the DD plan is not sustainable, unless the owner is on board with spending more, and more, then more and more and more... JH chose not to go that route and IMO, they chose the right path: build up the farm and roster depth before strategically signing players to fill a gap here and there. It's likely the best and most sustainable plan, under these circumstances. Until JH changes his stripes, what is a better direction?

Yeah, I forgot about Paxton and the tax line blunder. You got me. I thought I "was better than that," too. It is so sad I don't come from the same place Bloom critics hang out. I wish I could be like all you cool guys on talk sports radio.

What happens if we find out Bloom wanted to offer Bogey a deal BorA$$ would have accepted, but JH said no? OOoooop! (Same with Devers.) Not saying it happened, but wouldn't it be funny?

Nice non answer. I don't recall you ever ordering a worst 5 list, so I'll just assume you are too chicken to give your opinion and prefer to just slam others' opinions. It took you a month to just give one name. It fits your pattern. Got it.

You may not like my answers, but I do try to answer all your questions. Can you answer this one?

Why not supply your list?

You think had DD stayed, B & B would still be here ?

All Sox are grossly over-rated, although BTV rates that deal as pretty close to even.

I baffles my mind they may move two excellent defenders off their best positions rather than find a 1 year SS. Now, that may be a fireable offense by Bloom, but curiously, the Bloom-bashers seem to miss the obvious ones.

I knew you'd never name your top 5. Typical. No, I don't count an initial offer in a negotiation as a possibility of a worst move made by a GM. It matters zero, if we never were going to pay what BorA$$ wanted.As far as I know, we never did, or he'd be signed, so a first offer does not make my top 5 list. As far as a "counter," you must know more about all the offers made than anyone else. Please enlighten us and provide links. (LOL, yeah right! Good luck with that.) Upon further thought, my worst 5: 1. Renfroe trade 2. Not resetting in 2022 3. Not trading Bogey last year (assuming they were pretty sure they'd never offer what it would take, which I'm not so sure was ever true.) 4. Richards signing 5. Paxton signing (I forgot about that one, when I said Perez.) 6. Perez signing (I may change some, if someone reminds me of bigger mistakes.) On Bogey, if we find out, later, we could have had him for $160M/6, I'd think that was a mistake, but again, it's pretty early to know. Afterall, I liked and still like the Story signing, but I may end up being wrong or very wrong. We know the Renfroe trade sucked. We know the Richards signing sucked. We know what Paxton gave us for $6M- nada.

A more likely theory was that he was fired for spending as much as allowed, trading away 20 prospects that were top 20, at some point, and only creating a 3 year window and a very bleak long term outlook. When they sat down to discuss the direction, he asked for more money for 2020 than they gave him for 2019.