Maxbialystock

Maybe the question now is, would Jeter go for getting Betts, Bogie, and ERod for Stanton? I was going to say no because Stanton is also a draw, but guess what? With him Miami averages 20K per home game, 3d worst in MLB. All three of those guys have potential and Bett maybe a ton of potential, and their salaries are definitely in line.

That's pretty good, slasher.

I was enraged when Farrell left Porcello in too long in the 10-4 loss to the Jays. And ranted about it endlessly in that game thread. I still think we could have pulled that game out if he had acted sooner, but 10-4 tends to undercut that. I honestly think managers have little influence over the hitting and that one lineup is about as good as another. He does make key decisions on when to remove starters, which reliever to use, etc. But even there so much is up to the pitcher on the mound. Everyone of our starters has been hit hard several times. So has every reliever, including Kimbrel, as great as he has been this season. I would love to say Farrell was masterful Tuesday night in how he used 11 relievers to go 13 scoreless innings and make it possible for Betts to score the winning run in the 19th inning. But the simple fact is those 11 guys all manned up when they were most needed. I have said repeatedly Farrell needs to win to stay in Boston, and almost agree that includes winning the ALDS, as daunting as that now is with the Guardians being so red hot--that is, if you think winning 14 straight in August- September is a significant data point. I am less convinced there is compelling evidence his decisions have cost us games. That's why I point out that the top four American League teams (Astros, Guardians, Sox, and Yankees) have these scoring differentials in all games played to date: the Guardians are +190 for the season, the Astros +170, the Yankees +139, and the Red Sox +81. That's right. The Yankees, 4 games behind us, have actually scored almost 60 more runs (over roughly 140 games) than the Sox. The Guardians have scored 109 more runs (over roughly 140 games). So it seems to me remotely possible that Farrell has done more with less. We are now 5 games behind the Guardians and we darn well should be given those numbers. Maybe we should be 10 games behind.

Very helpful, thanks. 20 with with just 22 games to play looks like a whole bunch, but we get to count every Yankee loss too. If we just break even (against a pretty favorable schedule), go 11-11, and finish with 90 wins, the Yankees would have to go 16-8 to tie. \ In their last 10 games the Sox are 6-4 and the red hot, unbeatable juggernaut Yankees are 5-5. Heck, rumor has it the Sox lost their notorious sign-stealing edge more than 10 games ago. We are working without a net. We are winning 60% of the time--very short sample, granted--with suspect starters and even more suspect hitting. I say all that because Kimmi and moonslav alone have insisted things aren't nearly as dire as nattering nabobs of negativism like me say they are. So thank you again for throwing out those numbers.

You and moonslav, far more than the rest of us, have kept the faith. These last two games have justified that faith, and I seriously do not care it was the last place Jays. Their winning percentage is 46% and ours is 56%. Mathematically (actual games are different of course), the Jays should win 4 out of 10 games with us. Actually, 4.5 out of 10 games.

Heck, I have defended the heck out of him, but have also piled on now and then. I was furious when he left Porcello in too long in game one of the just finished Jays series. We're talking full bore ranting here--during, after, and long after that game was over.

Pete Abraham might just be the most credible commentator covering the Sox. He is paid by both the Globe and NESN--plus he blogs a lot--for a reason. Like Bo, Pete knows baseball.

I'm thoroughly impressed with both you season ticket holders. That is true fandom. I will try to remember that when we disagree because all my game-watching occurs in my study. \ I also hope some of you guys can get together for a Seadogs game. I'm envious because I'm pretty sure I've never actually been to Maine.

Right now he is my #2. I trust him way, way more than Pom, ERod, or Porcello.

Excellent and much needed observation. Sale is key to this rotation. By now so is Fister. After those two Pom, ERod, and Porcello are all inconsistent, with Porcello being the worst and Pom the best. In his good games Pom still needs lots of bullpen help. Porcello can be an innings eater, but too often at a high price. ERod just had a great start when he came out with good stuff, mixing his pitches, keeping it low, and throwing strikes. But will that last?

Adding a big bat would be great, but getting one is not without its own perils. I'm thinking a DH would be more obtainable and less costly. Great point by Oldtimer on HanRam who I also think is in decline and not the guy we want to hang around at that salary, especially when he is primarily a DH. See Ortiz's salaries when he was probably the best DH in the history of the AL. No way Devers won't play every day somewhere. The outfield is pretty much set barring injuries. Catcher is set. What I like about Nunez is his bat (and speed) and the fact that he is creditable at 3b, SS, and 2b. To me we don't need Holt any more. Better still, we are already seeing how Nunez can get lots of starts backing up those three positions, especially if any of 3b, SS, or 2b falters or his hurt. If Devers goes to 1b, all the more need for Nunez.

As we all should have voted. That rule would have denied us some great pitching by the bullpen, that absolutely stupendous double play by JBJ when he nailed Bautista trying to score on a middling fly to CF, and Betts and HanRam's heroics in the 19th inning. It could easily have given the Jays a win they didn't deserve.

I did not say mental blunders can not be proved to have cost a game, but I am saying no one on talksox has been able or willing to do it. At the same time, any of us can cite specific examples of when weak hitting or poor pitching cost us multiple losses. My gosh, our hitting has been so bad MLB is about to nail us for electronic stealing of signs, which Is cheating. You want bad baseball to get mad about, try that on for size. It is ignominious. As for JBJ and maybe Leon's inattention on the base paths last night, I not only don't care because it had no effect on the game, I also don't consider it a good example of bad fundamentals because it was such an unusual situation. I and others had trouble realizing that, even with Leon out at home JBJ could still be a force out at 3b. On a pop fly to left field yet. A natural instinct on a very catchable pop fly to LF is to stay put because you can't advance from 2d base when it is caught. That's also why Leon was so slow to react and out by a mile at home. And, while we're on this topic, lets not forget that pop fly was getting close to infield fly rule territory. The infield fly rule was adopted by MLB to eliminate easy double play force outs created by clever infielders who purposefully dropped popups with runners on 1st and 2d and one or no outs. They wisely recognized the advantage gained by intentionally dropping a popup to get a double play instead of just one easy out.

Two straight wins when badly needed and both wins earned, first by great pitching for 19 innings (did that really happen last night) and second by another great start by Fister and some very welcome power hitting. That's two high quality starts by ERod and Fister. moonslav keeps reminding us we have a pretty good schedule, so there is every reason to hope that just maybe the guys have turned still one more corner. Yankee fans cannot be happy tonight.

Yeah, well, you could be right about that. I have a bad habit climbing onto soapboxes at the first opportunity. This clearly is one of them. My snivelling excuse is that tonight I loved the heck out of this win and how we got it. And I kind of forgot what talksox is about. Thanks for the reminder.

How so? Are you honestly saying game outcomes are irrelevant to this discussion? Do you, for example, have any problem saying we lost such and such a game because of weak hitting or lousy pitching or both? Of course not. It's real. Boneheaded plays are real as well, but their effect on game outcomes is simply unproven.

I'm sure you are right. We have had lots of bonehead talk on talksox this year. But, as I just wrote, I believe the odds are 100 to 1 that any single game, including any playoff game, will be decided by hitting and pitching and fielding and not by a truly boneheaded play. Heck, I'll even agree that third out by JBJ was boneheaded, but, because this was such a great win, because JBJ helped make it that way, and because that 3d out made absolutely no difference in the game outcome, I just don't care. I frankly find the boneheaded talk tiresome because it is never backed up by a specific example of how it cost us a game.

Hey, feel free to beat my brains out when and if this happens in the playoffs and it costs us a game. Do I have license to do something similar if it doesn't happen? Don't you think that, given our ups and downs this season with our pitching and especially our hitting, those are far more likely to be the cause of our going down? I honestly think the odds are about 100 to 1 in my favor.

Fine. You want to make a big deal about that and re-establish that JBJ is a bonehead (even though a great player), you are entitled. I just disagree because I seriously don't care what he did on that play. Feel free to come back at me hard when JBJ does something like that when it makes a difference. Heck, if anything, I was glad for the 3d out so this game will end sooner because, thanks to JBJ, it is in the bag. FWIW, we just won 6-1, and I could not be happier.

Excuse me, but I was in no way, shape, or form suggesting that anyone was saying JBJ is a terrible player because nobody here thinks that. I was saying why I just don't care about "stupid baserunning error" when this has been such a great night due in no small way to JBJ's 3 run dinger. I'm saying let's have a sense of proportion here.

I seriously think we need a little better sense of proportion here. Yes, JBJ and Leon were both slow to react to that dropped fly to LF. If anything, however, they should have been guarding against being doubled off the bases they were on when it was surely going to be caught. As for JBJ, my gosh, he got that huge 3 run dinger in the 4th which basically put the game out of reach. Last night he made an absolutely unreal throw to home to double up Bautista and beyond question save that game (along with the bullpen of course) We did not need any more runs when he was out for not advancing to 3b. This is another huge win after that debacle against the Yankees and the ignominy of the cheating scandal being revealed. If there was one game and one play we should be completely willing to overlook our players (and 3b coach) inattention, this was surely it. Enough with the "these boneheads are clueless crap." At least tonight, anyway.

Rain means the game should end shortly. It also means playing on this field is now hazardous. And, to be honest, I didn't realize JBJ could be forced out either. That was a very weird play because it was in fact hit to the outfield. Leon was out at home by a mile because he too reacted slowly.

Meh. It's a blessing. Out of the inning with a 6-1 lead on no injuries in the rain. yes, JBJ forgot there was just one out when that fly was dropped and that he could therefore still be forced out at 3b for the last out. I don't care. Really.

Who cares about lousy running in the rain? The Sox got out of the 6th with no one hurt and a 6-1 lead.

So that's been the problem along. The Sox have been handicapped by being forced to play under excessively dry conditions.