Maxbialystock

Now three nice singles in two games. Devers could be back. Beni with the double, ditto.

That K for the first out? That was HanRam standing in for Nunez. Batting cleanup yet. Not a Ramirez fan. Partly the dreadlocks of course, but on some at bats I get the impression he is maybe up there to get some exercise. You know, swing so hard your helmet falls off--rinse, repeat. Actually hitting the ball hard is just kind of a bonus effect. That big single to bring Betts in the 19th inning? Not hard hit at all.

What the heck is Pedroia doing leading off instead of Nunez. Oh, that's why. 3 run dinger by Betts after the Beni double!

Top of the first was a classic Pom inning. Great knuckle curve, completely worthless because he can't throw for strikes. Consequently they sit on his fastball, so he has to pitch carefully. 17 pitches, a walk, a hard hit out, and K to finish on of course a 3-2. What kept to 17 was a hard hit first pitch fastball that Betts caught going away and going fast.

No question. But Moreland at 1b for sure as well.

Wow. Welcome back, Remy.

I don't like to brag [bs: you love it], but I did mention this possibility earlier on this thread. I opined Pedey might be at 2b, Bogie at SS,andDevers at 3b. But then I thought Nunez would DH even though it would keep HanRAm out for another game. You are dead right, though. Now is not the time to bench a great bat when hitting is our achilles.

Yeah? Talk to my wife about that. She ain't so sure. Look at my name: I endure. You're an MVP for crying out loud. These days, our deus ex machina.

Actually, I think he still had a play at 1b. Eating the ball was certainly a choice, but easier said then done when there is a whole lot of pressure. Remember, Holt rarely plays 1b,and that play is one of the tougher ones for any firstbaseman. We have seen numerous throws the other way to first base which probably should have been eaten. I don't recall any complaints about those. One reason for that is it could become a bad habit--always look, pause, and think before throwing. Devers does that a lot. Better to fire when ready.

I try not to listen any of those guys and sure don't think Eck is completely authoritative. But, when i do listen, I am impressed. He's objective and interesting. He knows a lot about the game and communicates that well. He is certainly better than any of those other guys. If NESN doesn't keep him at least until age 70, they are wrong. To me he never gets old.

moonslav, you probably know better than I about how many blunders this year vs. prior years. In an alternate answer I wrote but didn't send, I opined that those blunders (or whatever) are probably getting a whole more attention this year than in prior years. One explanation is that suddenly these guys have turned into zombies and forgotten how to play baseball. Despite the rigorous and unique professional apprenticeship required of all MLB players, to say nothing of the sheer redundancy of playing all those games, 6 a week for 26 weeks, before which everybody practices (and hones) basic skills, inattention and unprofessionalism swept thru the Sox. I'm not saying dogs living with cats, but still some pretty bad stuff. No wonder talksox has been in an uproar. We need the ghostbusters. Or maybe some of what we are seeing is because this is the first year in recent memory when baserunning--and there has been a lot of the aggressive form of it--has been so pervasive and even necessary. When Ortiz is hitting dingers and others are following suit, when the OPS's are up, and when your team is scoring 100 more runs than the next best AL league team, who the heck cares about running out grounders, stretching singles, etc? Plus the Sox baserunners historically have not been adventurous--at least in the John Henry era--because the hitting and scoring machine was usually functioning just fine. That ended when Ortiz retired. So what I am saying is that we are seeing more in part because we are looking for more. We don't have the dingers and the semi-automatic great scoring to keep us satiated. We ain't scoring and we ain't winning (enough) and the blame game is on. I did find that Holt game. It was August 21 when we lost to Cleveland when they scored on a late and bad throw by Holt. I've rewatched the video several times and cannot honestly call it a bonehead play. In fact, I thought Holt was really aggressive getting to the ball instead of the pitcher who was closer but Holt was in better position to throw to 3b. I think he paused for one of two reasons--either he didn't have a good grip on the ball, or he was thinking he doesn't make that play very often at all. In fact, I'll bet you that's the only time while playing 1b this year or last year or the year before when he had to throw from 1st to 3d on a bunt. Remember, that's the least likely position Farrell has him play. Either way I give him a pass because to me it was a tough play. It was the errant throw, not its lateness, that caused us to lose. That suggests the grip was faulty and that what we saw was just an error and not boneheadedness. I completely agree it cost us the game.

mvp 78 is the man. I think Archer has the edge, but know he has not fared well against the Sox. Pom sometimes irritates the heck out of me with those long innings, but most of the time this year he has been a battler, and that knuckle curve is pretty good. Lineup tonight could be tricky. I expect Pedey to be up to playing 2b after a DH followed by a rest day. Bogie at SS. Devers now likely at 3b. Nunez must play, but where? Probably 2b with Pedey going back to DH, but then that leaves HanRam out again because Moreland will surely play 1b against righty Archer. Outfield set, of course. Either catcher fine. Rays definitely looking to be spoilers, and their road won/loss is about as good as their home and overall they are around .500 for the year. This could easily be another tough game. But I have to say the last two games, both wins, have been a tonic for me. A lot of good things in both games, and I seriously do not care about the so-called fiasco when Leon and JBJ were part of an inning-ending double play in the 4th. Heck, I was happy because for me the sooner the better getting Fister back out there to get three outs and that game in the books. And we had a solid lead, especially with Fister on the mound. It was raining enough that the mound had to be repaired. Meanwhile, JBJ got the dinger, Bogaerts a triple, Devers two clean singles, and the night before two great and timely doubles by Betts. Doctor, I'm definitely feeling a pulse here. The Sox are 6-4 in their last 10 games. If they just split the remaining 22 games (not a tough schedule), that's 90 wins. The Yankees freight train is 5-5 in their last 10. To get to 90 wins, they need to go 15-8.

You always right good stuff, however-- Running into an out at 3b when the ground ball is in front of you isn't defacto dumb. Infield might be shifted to the right side. Grounder might not be right to the SS or 3b or they might prefer to go for the GIDP the easy way or we might have a really good baserunner like Betts who seems to know when he can do stuff like. Forgetting number of outs is definitely dumb, but also very infrequent. Risking making the 1st or last out at 3b is also very situation dependent. Sometimes it's worth it. A man on 3b can score in a lot of ways not requiring a hit. Not so a man on 2b. Not running out grounders at full speed is endemic among MLB veterans. Ortiz, the very guy many Sox fans now say is the most valuable Sox player ever, made a point of "saving himself" on obvious groundouts. Not running full out on popups is also unprofessional, but rare is the player who runs them out every time. Now taking that 1/3 lead on a popup or fly when there are 1 or no outs is not good, agreed. I'm not sure how often that happens on the Sox, however. You might know. I suspect it's not very often. About running into outs causing runs not to be scored. Hard to prove or disprove, but I agree it has to happen now and then. However, my view is that generally that's only important in a game lost by 1 or 2 runs. And, as I've tried to suggest, i'm not sure that running into outs is always bad baseball. Thus my example of Beni trying to get to 2b on a single back in game 1 of the latest Yankees series. We lost that game 6-2. We had 4 singles. We were uniformly terrible with RISP. And our starter gave up 5 runs. Beni was the least of our problems if a problem at all. I like aggressive baserunning and having men on 2d and 3d with no outs because you should be able to get both home without a hit, plus you taken away the GIDP. I realize the is a minority opinion on talksox, but so be it. I say the above with the certain knowledge that you have not only watched, but studied way more Sox games than have I. Nevertheless I just can't get my head around the idea that the Sox should be even with the Guardians if only they weren't such dummies. Not when the Guardians have better pitching and a whole lot better hitting. No when they have scored 190 more runs (in games to date) than their opponents and we have scored 81 more runs. Can those numbers really be because Farrell can't manage or because we have weak fundamentals or we have too many dummies running amuck, not taking that 1/3 lead on flies, etc?

You're right, I only analyzed one game, mostly because i remember it and because the near universal reaction on the game thread was that Beni stretching that single and being thrown out basically killed us. I think I've done a pretty good and basically factual job of showing that judgment (on the game thread) is wrong. Your saying that one play combined with bunch of conjectural bs about what might have happened does not sway me. My analysis is far more factual than yours, and, pardon me, but you cannot suppose away a 6-2 loss and blame it on Beni. No sir. I have asked no one to analyze every game--way too hard. But I have asked for an analysis of just one game to show that a boneheaded play, baserunning or otherwise, cost us that game. I am heartened by the fact that one or two others find the thesis that baserunning is causing us to lose games is unproven and likely not credible. I do find Kimmi's stats (not conjecture) on that subject informative. I like numbers and facts, so sue me.d I also like hitting and pitching stats which tell me that is primarily where games are won and lost and, best of all, we can count them and not guess at them. Ditto on the fielding. For baserunning, we now have Kimmi's stats. I don't deny Sox players have made some lousy decisions, but for the most part I accept them as part of the game--remember, 162 interminable (3.5 hours, maybe less) games in which there is actually about 10-15 minutes of real action. Modern MLB encourages inattention. The miracle is that the focus and situational awareness are usually pretty good. This is almost certainly because the pay is fantastic. Novices get half a million a year. So-so contributors like Ellsbury can get $24M a year for 7 years (if they have that one great year). Hell, in MLB you can get those great contracts and still miss tons of games, even entire seasons, and still get paid the full contract. Right now I think we are paying Pablo $15M or so this year not to play for us.

Go back to my blow by blow, play by play, and tell me where that 2d run in the 3d inning comes from. CC walked a ton of people (5), but to me he never looked stressed. Hell, he has owned us this year. On top of which the Yankees scoredd 6 runs. Our half of the 9th inning underscores just how really rotten we were in that game with men on base and with bases loaded and no on out. You, sir, are simply projecting a best case that was very unlikely.

Excuse me, but I didn't just analyze that one inning (the 3d). I also cited just 4 singles in the game and the total abortion of a 9th inning rally when the Sox had the bases loaded with no one out and got zero, repeat zero hits. We got the one run when I think Beni got walked. We were vastly outplayed in that game, top to bottom, and all the blather about mental mistakes won't change that fact. It was 6-2, not 2-1.

Your definition of bonehead plays keeps shifting. I honestly thought it was all about "running into outs." Holt hesitated on a throw home? That's what you got? Do you remember which game? I ask because i'm sure I can find a replay with my mlb.com package. But hesitating is boneheaded? Heck, Devers has been doing that on maybe half of his throws to first. Is that really because he's not paying attention or lacks fundamental game and situation awareness? Love the 343 mental mistakes. With that many the Sox have to be not only the worst team in the AL but maybe in the last 10 or 20 years. 343--Goodness gracious. That's more than 2 a game. Those hitting and pitching numbers pale in comparison. Who the heck cares about OPS's, ERA's, and silly things like that? Eliminate just half of those 343 mental mistakes, and the Sox would have a better record than the Dodgers.

Proof is there, but not just in the box score. Look at the inning by inning and play by play summary available in the mlb.com package. That's what I did for the first game against the Yankees last week (a week ago). Assume Beni stays put in that 3d inning. Men on 1st and 3d and no one out. After Beni's single, no more Sox hits in the 3d. Betts walked. Bogie ground out scoring Nunez from 3d. Devers walked. HanRam ground out for out #2. Next better was Young, who was hitless in the game. I think it a very reasonable assumption the Sox score no more than the run they did score even though Beni was out. Plus the Sox only had four lousy singles in the game, I mean who are we kidding blaming this on Beni's intemperance? And don't forget that great 9th inning rally when we had the based loaded and no outs and again had no hits. The one run came on third walk. We got killed because we couldn't hit Sabathia and they scored 5 runs off our starter.

Blather beyond question--inevitable in a lengthy post. Jackass quite possible. My mistake clearly is trying to explain--over explain-- what surely is an untenable position. I need to admit the obvious, that lousy baserunning is part of our problem, probably costing 5 or even 10 games which we would otherwise have won. Almost as bad is that it looks awful, not even at the level of little leaguers. That alone dwarfs that cheating scandal stuff because in that at least our guys were actually being pretty crafty. How could I be so blind? With just a little more coaching or better decisions by the base coaches and/or by experienced major leaguers like JBJ to say nothing of rookie Beni, we would be even with Cleveland right now. Those 109 more runs than us were just smart baseball. Francona is simply that much better a manager. Just goes to show you can still learn something in your dotage.

Terrific, thanks. I use WAR myself, but am always suspicious because I don't know where the ratings come from. Also, some of those numbers above are low simply because of the number of games played. Thus to me Nunez's 2.0 is probably 3.0. I'm delighted Betts is so high, surely because of his defense. JBJ a little lower than I expected and certainly closer to Bogie than I would put him. And no way I put Bogie higher than Beni. The WAR ratings are for the season to date, so cannot of course reflect anyone who seems to have really turned things around--see especially Fister. I think Devers's defense hurts his overall WAR more than it should--plus of course the much shorter season. If there were a moonslav version of WAR, I probably would go with that instead. The best thing about those WAR ratings is that they generally rate our pitchers higher than our lineup players. Very credible to me.

Fine. Show me. I've provided data that point the other way. For you to be right, I really would like just one example of where terrible baserunning or boneheaded plays cost us even one game, let along several. To me runs scored for and against a team are all about hitting and pitching and occasionally defense, but rarely boneheadedness. I have said the same to moonslav, who has yet to identify just that one game, let alone several. Let's not forget too that every MLB team makes boneheaded mistakes every season. Granted,some more than others. But you guys are saying that the Sox fundamentals--mainly baserunning and "running into outs"--are so poor that the Sox are losing 5 to 10 more games than the average (with respect to boneheadedness) MLB team does. I just think that's unsupportable and must point out that so far it actually is unsupportable because no one has identified the first game lost by those kinds of mistakes. Think about last year. The Sox led MLB in runs scored and in the AL led by over 100 runs. That's huge. Are we now saying that most of those guys,who are on this year's team, were just really smart and that's how they scored all those runs? Of course not. They had Oritz, and almost everyone hit better last year than they are this year. So how suddenly have they become so dumb and so careless with the same manager and the same coaches and that that's why they aren't scoring more runs? This just makes no sense to me. And let's not forget the other key number in tabulating total net runs (us vs. our opponents) scored for a season--the pitching. The pitching has overall been very good this year and better than in years past. That's fully half of the nets runs scored equation and is completely divorced from any tendencies toward boneheadedness--with the possible exception of pitchers not hustling to cover 1b on grounders to the right. I do remember one game thread when Beni's presumed boneheadedness was a really hot topic. It happened in the top of the 3d in the first game of the recent Yankees series when Sabathia was on the mound and we lost 6-2. In the top of the 3d Nunez led off with a single. Beni singled and was out trying to stretch it into a double on a play so close the umpire actually called him safe before a challenge reversed the call. The game thread erupted in condemnations of Beni's sheer stupidity in doing that with no one out. Not the smart play,not at all. Dumb rookie. There's more. That one play then became exhibit 1 in demonstrating that right here in this 3d inning by himself Beni had ruined what was sure to be a great rally to wrest the game from the tentacles of Sabathia and restore order in the universe. We were the better team because we had the better record, etc. Sabathia was over the hill, a fat slob who couldn't even field a bunt (in the 1st inning by Nunez) adequately. This was our inning to make the kill, and Beni took it away from us. Almost ignored was that we actually ended up getting one run to tie the game at 1-1. Completely ignored (my version of what was said) was that we actually never got another hit in the inning. Mookie walked and later stole 3b. Bogie grounded out, scoring Nunez from 3b. Devers walked. HanRam grounded out for the the third out. The next batter would have been Young, who was hitless for the night. Indeed, we had a grand total of 4 singles for the entire game. No dingers--of course not. 0-8 with RISP, naturally. It's our thing. Sabathia walked too many guys, but otherwise was very effective, going 6 and giving up 1, definitely a quality start. The piece de resistance of that particular game came in the 9th inning when the vaunted Sox offense--held back only by stupid baserunning--finally started a great rally. In other words, Betances walked the first two guys and HBP the third to load the bases with nobody out. So then Nunez K's swinging, Beni walks and gets an rbi, Mookie pops up meekly, and Moreland flies to LF for the final out. Ok, that's my game, my evidence that stupid baserunning has not been our problem. Heck I even thought at the time (3d inning) that wanting to stretch that single wasn't all that stupid given how terrible our hitting was in the game. With men on 2d and 3d with no one out, two grounders or nice fly balls could have brought them both home. No further hits needed, thank you. Nevertheless, let's call it stupid because that was the clear consensus on the game thread. Now, what's your game to show I'm wrong? You've got 139 to choose from. Piece of cake. moonslav can play too.

well said.

Could be you're right, but this was after a 19 inning, 6 hour monster of a game. Let's also not forget those two nifty throws, Devers 2 clean singles, and Bogaerts triple. Maybe the appearance of low energy is a good sign. Speaking of low energy, have you noticed that lately Beni is totally disinterested in stealing bases, etc. Part of that is low OBP, of course, but he has been on first with 2b open--several times, I think. Not a nibble. he's learned his lesson. Better to take no risks at all than be branded a dumkopf. He would make Daniel Nava so proud--someone to carry on the tradition of risk-free baserunning.

Heck, yes, it flips. That's why I keep applauding your steadfastness. I love over-reacting, including during games. Last night I unfairly hammered Farrell for challenging a call in the bottom of the 4th when it was raining, the game was in hand, and I was worried about getting it in the books, meaning getting 3 outs in the top of the 5th. Turns out Farrell did no such thing, so I said that on three separate posts. No, I didn't see the players reactions to JBJ's dinger. Are you saying they didn't (much)? Back to the two games. I love making a big deal of them precisely because I was so darn negative about the 10-4 loss and the Yankees series. My snivelling excuse is that it is in fact late in the season, every game counts, the Yankees looked like a freight train about to run us over, etc. On one of these threads today I cited our actual position and that we only need to go 11-11 in the remaining games to make it very tough for the Yankees to catch us. In the same post I gave you due credit for maintaining something like that all along. Kimmi too. I just didn't see it until these two wins. Heck, last night I even saw Devers and Bogaerts make two nifty throws on close plays at first. Plus Bogie's triple and Devers two clean singles. Earth-shattering. I mean we're talking dogs and cats living together. I was just delighted to see a real pulse in this presumed cadaver (my presumption) called the Sox.

Meh. All this talk of looking tired to me is in the eye of the beholder. To me losing feeds on itself. Lousy hitting feeds on itself. All you need are a couple of nice wins to return to the right frame of mind and look energetic as all get out. Today, Sep 7, the Sox have two terrific wins under their belts. The 19 inning jobber took a lot effort by a lot of players. Our former main man Betts had two crucial doubles that led to all 3 runs. ERod had a quality start--surprise, surprise--and the bullpen was incredible. In the 11th inning JBJ saved the game with a throw for the ages, nailing Bautista at the plate for a double play and out of the inning. In the 19th Betts doubled, and took it on himself to be aggressive on a soft fly to CF which conceivably could have been caught. Game over. Congrats to HanRAm for the single and rbi. Last night Fister was Fister and JBJ had that great 3 run dinger to go with nice rbi's by Bogaerts, who tripled, and Devers, who had two solid hits. Devers and Bogaerts both also made nifty throws in I think the 2d inning. This sure didn't look like a bunch of disheartened losers to me. Heck, I'm seeing a pretty decent pulse and am very encouraged. Rest today and 3 vs. the Rays this weekend, about which I'm feeling pretty good. If the Sox go just 11-11 against a pretty favorable 22 game schedule, they have 90 wins, and they are 6-4 in their last 10. The Guardians scare the heck out of me, but Kimmi insists anything can happen in the postseason. Job one is to get there, and right now that looks very likely. If we go 11-11, the Yankees have to go 16-8 just to tie, and they are 5-5 in their last 10 games.