Maxbialystock

Ain't lost yet. However, since you re-raised this topic, a thought. Your complaint was and is that the Red Sox defense stinks this year and is costing games. My nefarious claim is that, while I agree that can happen, it's the cost of doing business because first priority is players who can hit. Rafaela can hit. I hasten to go on and reiterate what I've already said too many times. Hitting and pitching are vastly more important than defense or baserunning. But I did look him up on Sox Prospects, and they say he is already a plus-plus defender, especially if he is in CF. If he is, then just maybe those errors/mistakes are in fact the cost of doing business and not a freaking disaster.

That's the future. Rafaela in center field running in to catch a ball over his head.

Right. JH was being cheap. We know that because in 2018 and 2019 the Sox had the highest payroll in MLB. JH should have been happy to spring for a $300M or, better still, a $400M payroll.

I completely agree CBO's are hired to be fired and that JH has never hesitated to do either. That said, there does seem to be a sea change in MLB which you and others are ignoring-- Mets, Yankees, and Padres have the three highest payrolls in MLB and absolutely no hope of making it to the postseason. Bottom feeders Rays and Orioles, 27th and 28th highest payrolls in MLB, have the two best records in MLB despite both being in easily the toughest division in MLB. Throughout the John Henry era--at least until he hired Chaim Bloom--John Henry has been willing to pay top dollar (or close to it) for talent. This year's payroll is 15th, probably the lowest payroll ranked for the Sox in 40 years.

The 2018 Sox payroll was the highest in MLB. So was the 2019 payroll. The 2018 team was the best Sox team ever with 108 regular season wins and an 11-3 record in the ALDS, ALCS, and WS postseason. The 2019 team finished 84-78 despite retaining almost all of the talent from the splendid 2018 team. The current horrible, terrible, disgusting Sox team with the 15th biggest payroll in MLB would be just 6 games back of the 2019 team. The Mets have the highest MLB payroll in 2023 and have a losing record. The Yankees have the second highest payroll and are one game ahead of the horrible, terrible, disgusting Sox. The Padres have the 3d highest payroll and a losing record. The Angels have the 7th highest payroll and a losing record. On the other hand, far and away the two best teams in the AL, the Orioles and the Rays, have 28th and 27th highest payrolls in MLB. And 2 weeks ago the Rays lost their best freaking player, shortstop Wander Franco. He was everything we hoped Story would be and more. But without him the Rays are 8-2 in their last 10 games. We do not know what Betts would have cost if JH had told his guys, "I don't care what the Dodgers offer him, we will go higher." We can, however, be absolutely sure Mookie was going wherever the most money was. As for Bogey, he too went for the bigger bucks, and his new team, despite the massive payroll, has a worse record than the Sox.

A fair point. However, his tenure was based on not doing what every other GM/CBO for the Sox has been able to do during the John Henry era and probably the last 40 years: spend like a drunken sailor to bring in talent, especially pitching talent.

I admit I worry Devers weight because I know it can affect his long term viability, especially as a position player and on the basepaths. But, if we've being honest, the one thing we should worry about is his swing and "command" of the strike zone. Besides, this season he leads the Sox in games played with 140--also total bases, dingers, and rbi's. Statistically, his 2023 OPS, .859, is right at his career OPS of .854 but below last year's .879, 2021's .890, and 2019's .916. His 114 K's are no worse than last year's or 2021's. His 34 dingers so far are below last year's 42, but will likely be no worst than 2021's 37 in 156 games.

I know this topic was much discussed in 2019--that the poor old rotation had been abused in the 2018 season and postseason, but I think it's just bunk. No starter was overworked in the 2018 season or postseason. Lester and Lackey threw more postseason innings in 2013 than Price and Sale did in 2018. They also pitched more innings in the 2013 regular season than Price and Sale in 2018. However, because Cora apparently believed those guys had been overworked in 2018, he had them pitch less than usual in spring training, which I think was the real cause of their lousy 2019 seasons. But I have one big caveat to the above. We now know that both Price and Sale were basically worthless after 2018. Price's WAR in 2018 was 4.4, but in the next 3 seasons it was 1.8, .5, and .7. Sale's WAR in 2018 was a terrific 6.9, but in the next 5 seasons it has been (note the word choice) 2.3, 0, 1.0, 0, and 0. Those WAR numbers, combined with what the Sox paid for them, poisoned John Henry's belief in simply buying pitching. So he fired DD, hired CB, and gave him guidance--probably through his brain trust--on what he could and could not do in terms of buying/paying players. Mookie became unaffordable. So did any long term pitcher contracts, which led directly to the rotation mess the Sox have today.

I think you have to be a really good hitter to justify being the "regular" DH. Why? Because the DH slot gives the manager opportunities to rest other players, to get the right bats into a lineup against a given pitcher, etc. In Yoshida's case, left field at Fenway is almost perfect for him defensively because it does not put a premium on having a great arm or on having great range. Thus do Manny Ramirez and Ted Williams come to mind. To me the real issue with Yoshida is his hitting vs. his salary, and that's exactly the issue with Story even though Story is a pretty good defensive SS. Story's salary, just like Yoshida's, demands an .800 OPS as an absolute minimum.

His first year Whitlock was a terrific reliever, especially because he was a rule 5 steal from the Yankees. But he throws a lot of different pitches well, so his 2d and 3d seasons they gave him a shot. But you were right all along.

It's role, not roll, and the attempt to make Whitlock into a starter was not unreasonable. A starter pitchers a whole lot more innings than a reliever. The two key questions are: 1) can he go through a lineup 2-3 times successfully; and 2) does he have the physique to throw 80-100 pitches every 5 days? I think Whitlock has a better repertoire than Houck, but Houck has more durability.

I'm not saying he's a good baserunner, but am saying that double play was automatic. Any baserunner who would have been safe on that play would have been a runner with no lead. The guy on 2b is supposed to take a good lead so he can score on a single.

And I'm the only one who said he should at least start the 6th. I did so only because we have in fact seen Houck get guys out the third time through the lineup. He is also the most durable pitcher the Sox have. Enough of the phony self-congratulations. The real credit goes to Cora who made two tough calls--letting Houck start the 6th and letting him finish it--that worked.

I think we under-value Casas's defense. He's made a couple of good plays today--the throw to 2b on the grounder when the play at first would have been easier and now fielding the grounder and throwing home despite interference from Houck. His one weakness is grounders, and for now I can definitely live with that because he is good at the plate.

Interesting. Right now I sure look as wrong as I can be with that leadoff double on the first pitch of the 6th inning. But the Yankees haven't scored yet. Excellent play by Rafaela to come over from CF to back up Abreu who missed the carom of the green monster. I haven't seen many Sox CF's do that.

He actually has gotten over the hurdle several times this season already. But I'm delighted you paid enough attention to see he already got the Yankees top two the third time through. I agree 88 pitches is a lot for a Sox pitcher, but I think Houck is healthy/tough enough to come out for the 6th.

Too bad nobody else is watching this game. If they were, I would ask them to answer this simple question-- Given that just about everyone on talksox--except me, of course--believes Houck is incapable of getting anyone out the third time through the lineup, who besides me wants him to come back out to pitch the 6th inning?

1/6 with RISP.

Sox already 1 for 5 with RISP. The 1 was Abreu's defensive swing on a ball way outside--that softly fell in front of the leftfielder for the Sox' only run.

Meh. I agree the baserunning has been lousy, but that was pretty much a guaranteed double play. A hard hit liner to the 3d baseman's left, the 2d baseman moving to cover 2B, and Rafaela with a lead and absolutely no chance to get back.

While I recognize that all managers and CBO's are hired to be fired, I'm inclined to be supportive of the incumbents. I have supported Bloom because I understood JH's intent to go in a new direction, which included spending less. That was/is unprecedented in the 20+ seasons of the John Henry era, which has been hugely successful because of a willingness to spend to bring in better arms and bats than were coming up through the Sox system. On the other hand, a whole bunch of talksoxers have provided specific examples of Bloom era acquisitions that haven't worked out--as well as Sox players who went to other teams and did well. The current team can no longer gripe about all the talent on the IL because most everyone is healthy/available--and they are still playing lousy baseball. By that I mean hitting, especially with RISP, pitching, defense, and baserunning. Heck, forget all those things and just look at their won-lost record since Sale, Story, Duvall, Reyes, Whitlock, Houck, et al, have returned from the IL.

I'm curious. The name of this website is "Talksox," which carries the presumption that contributors want to discuss the Boston Red Sox. But I can't remember the last time you wrote anything about the Red Sox. Instead, you seem to be obsessed with insulting the rest of us who do want to discuss the Red Sox. In case you're at all interested in the team, I offer the following topics-- The firing of Chaim Bloom. The possibility that Alex Cora could be gone soon. Today's double-header with the Yankees. The Sox pitching staff. The Sox defense. The Sox hitting, especially with RISP. The Rafael Devers contract. The younger Sox like Casas, Duran, Rafaela, Bloom, Abreu, et al

Congrats to mvp 78 for starting this unbelievably predictive thread. By the title I thought it was premature, but in fact it was right on target. Will there be a similar thread on Alex Cora?

You going to change the date/time to 14 Sep, 1:35?

While I agree the players make a huge difference and managers are hired to be fired, I do think some managers, including Sox managers, are better than other managers. JH has the final say in hiring and firing managers, but he's always had a pretty good brain trust to help him in hiring/firing a total of 6 managers: Grady Little (a subpar manager fired after the 2003 season almost certainly for leaving Pedro in too long in the ALCS; the Dodgers also fired him after 2 seasons); Terry Francona (excellent manager fired after 8 good seasons, 2004-11, including 2 WS wins, but had to go after the 2011 September collapse plus players drinking beer during games); Bobby Valentine (one season mistake in 2012); John Farrell (5 seasons, 2013-17, 1 WS in 2013, let go after 2 good teams, 2016 and 2017, stunk in the postseason); Alex Cora (5 seasons, suspended in 2020 but hired back immediately afterward, 1 WS and best Sox season ever, 1 ALCS season in 2021 without Sale, Price, Mookie, Kimbrel, Beni, etc, 2 bad seasons, 2022 and 2023, but with the lowest salary rankings in the John Henry era). From the above I conclude Terry Francona and Alex Cora are easily the two best of six managers if we include Ron Roenicke in the 2020 season. But, while I prefer Cora, I think Francona's record is far better because he's been excellent in Boston and Cleveland. However, of the six managers, only Cora has been asked to do "more with less," which has been going on since the 2019 season.