Hitch

Pivetta has shown flashes. This year will show us what he's about. There are question marks, I don't disagree.

The Diamondbacks staying in the play off picture would be another very nice bonus. If we get big enough hauls back in any sell off, Murphy may be in play from the A's. He'd cost a pretty penny, however.

Possibly elsewhere, but I think (total conjecture) that he would have signed with us for around $25-27 for six years, seven years.

Your last sentence is exactly where I am. I actually think I'm tilting towards wanting it to happen because I think the health of the team could be so massively improved and I hate tanking. Yeah they're all losses, but I don't think we extend them before year out anyway, so we'd be in the same situation regardless - they're there in free agency if we want them. But now after a lot of prospects/MLB ready players in the house, too. I keep forgetting the Price money. If my math is correct that's near enough $100 million coming off the books. We'll have holes for sure, but a lot of money to fill them and a lot of talented prospects ready to trade or maybe slot in. Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Pivetta is a decent starting 4, with Bello, Seabold and Houck in the wings, too. We trade some prospects for a great pitcher (or get one back in the sell off) and that's a nice rotation to build on, with talent behind. A massive plus would be if Duran and Casas show they're able to cut it in the bigs after the sell off. If they do, as you said, we'd still need a good catcher (maybe Wong will be ready as a no2?), a 2nd baseman, centre/right fielder. A power bat to play DH. You'd hope we'd get some options for an almost ready starting pitcher, young catcher and/or a 2nd baseman in any sell off. It's the fact so many teams will be buyers that keeps exciting me. Look at The Angels. If they keep it going and are in contention, what would they give up for Eovaldi if we assume all of his remaining contract? They finally have more pitching, but Eovaldi is the kind of guy that helps put you over. The Padres have prospects to burn, what would a JD or Bogey, do for them? Not that it's likely to happen, but how I'd love The Marlins to be in contention. They have starting pithing to burn at AAA. Bloom must feel like he's in an odd position. If we tank and the listed players hold their worth (or increase in Kike and Vaquez's cases), he'd likely be salivating at the deals he can make for those players. But at the same time, if we tank, surely his head will be on the block. He'd be on a very short leash at the very least.

Haha!!

I have to say, as much as I like Bloom and what he's done (trying to do), I was, and am, enormously frustrated we signed Story to let Bogey go (as seems clear). Incredibly frustrated.

Better to be an optimist that's disappointed, than a pessimist proved right. Maybe.

For reasons I'm not sure of, I feel like we're about to turn it around and go on a big run.

This is indeed the nightmare scenario. Hopefully it's clear to management either way because if we're on the fringes of not knowing we will likely blow a massive opportunity to bring in some serious prospects/MLB ready players.

It wouldn't be a fire sale as such. Eovaldi Hill Wacha JD Bogey Kike Vazquez ... are all hitting free agency. If we're out of contention it would be madness to not maximise return as much as possible for them. All will likely be available to bring back in the summer if we wanted to. I doubt we would make a run at many of them though. It's not so much a fire sale, but using a very advantageous situation (in terms of players we can trade) to our advantage if that's the way things go.

Yes exactly. We're still a ways away from this becoming reality, but if the stars align and the top free agents perform, but we don't as a team, the pay off could be huge.

As I mentioned in the other thread - there's a possible opportunity about to come up to add some very big pieces to our farm and re-tool significantly off the back of this mess (if it continues). Eovaldi Hill Wacha Bogey JD Hernandez Vazquez ...are all free agents after this season (unless Bogey gets a bad injury) Assuming continued good form and health, Eovaldi, Bogey and JD could bring back seriously big pieces. Hill and Wacha some decent pieces. Hernandez and Vaquez would depend on better form. We could even offer to assume large chunks of the remaining contracts to gain the absolute best returns. The winter would arrive with $84 million coming off the books and a stacked farm. They'll have the freedom to extend Devers long term. Rotation starts with Sale, Paxton and Whitllock. Houck, Bello and Seabold should be ready or close. We'll have big trade pieces and a lot of financial freedom to bring in other starters and sort the pen. Duran and Casas will hopefully prove in the second half they're MLB ready. Downs is hopefully close. Yorke, Mayer, Mata all a year closer. And that's without whatever we get back for the list above. I'd rather we get back to winning ways and compete for a ring, but this is no bad time to have a down year. With the players we've got to offer and with more buyers (and less sellers) than ever because of extended play offs, it could be argued a bad year now could be better for the health of the team overall. This also based on my assumption there's next to zero chance we give Bogey the contract he deserves.

Yup. f*** John Henry for doing this. Parasite.

Yeah same, I'm very glad I got to watch him game in and game out. And even more glad I got to watching live several times. I wouldn't swap that. And yet I'm still glad we moved on as I don't think he's worth his contract long term and I want the team to be successful not Betts. Great if they coincided, but otherwise it's Sox all the way, naturally. Kinda puts losing Mookie in perspective! Yeah, I'm not missing a single other player we've lost/let go.

I hear you. I get the arguments against letting Betts go, I really do. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it's bad. We just have to hope the people in charge get it right more than most. I've mostly been more of a club guy than a player guy. I'm younger than your guys, and came to Baseball late as a Brit. When I was a boy I supported (and still do) the soccer team Liverpool FC. We had a player playing for us (Steven Gerrard) who was one of the best in the world. Imagine how much bigger and wider soccer is as a sport around the world than baseball and then having one of the absolute best in the world at your team. Plus he was a local boy so the affection was X a million. After winning the biggest trophy in European soccer (a one off, massively against the odds - think last year's Sox winning the WS), he decided to leave to join a team that had been bought out by a Russian oil baron and all around Oligarchy. We were around the same age and I had followed his career since he was a kid. It broke my heart, to the point where I thought I needed a break from the sport. Thankfully at the 59th minute of the 11th hour, just as he was about to sign the contract, he walked out and realised he couldn't leave the club and the fans he'd spent his entire life with. But two things happened to me through that. The first was I knew whatever else, I shouldn't let myself be so emotionally affected by sport in that way, I was genuinely devastated. Players come and go, clubs are forever. The second was, I always thought from there on in, not about individual players, but the team, and the health of the team. I've been hooked by baseball since 2012. Watched every single game of every season the Sox have played since. Obsessed with the numbers and sport as a whole and Betts was the player (along with Sale at his absolute peak) that I have had the most satisfaction of watching in that spell. So I totally get why it hurt so much, but I found myself actively hoping for his trade, because A, I don't think he was ever staying bar an offer that made no sense in any universe, and B, I have become detached to players emotionally and see them only as small pieces in the health of the organisation. The business like nature of the sport only enforces that for me. I still have my favourites of course, but as much as I loved JBJ, I was delighted we didn't re-sign him. Maybe it's way of protecting yourself against heartbreak. Nothing breaks your heart quite like sport. but I never saw Mookie has a Sox for life. I think he's really polished and says all the right things, but I never saw him wanting to stay. So I was pretty happy when we traded him and even happier now with what we're getting from Verdugo. Players come and go, clubs are forever. Edit: Seesh...sorry I didn't set out to write a thesis ha!

He's making the Mookie trade look better by the day. If one of Downs or Wong comes through and becomes a significant player for us, it will be a win. This kid has got all the tools and the desire to be one of the best.

Not so much a major concern, but one for the future. Bryan Mata had Tommy John yesterday.

Ha!

It reminds me of '19. We were struggling and clearly nowhere near where we needed to be (plus had the impending cliff ahead), and the week or so before the trade deadline we went on a run winning games and dragging us back into 'well you never know' territory. I often wonder what would have happened if we'd been far enough out for a sell off there. Mookie would have brought back even more at that time. Or we could have side stepped the problem all together and maybe traded Price and Eovaldi to contenders (although I don't remember how Eovaldi was doing at the time). JD may have gone too, however, and Vaz. We went back to being rubbish straight after. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened. Especially as it was Gunslinger Dave with the reigns at the time.

Impossible to say with any certainty, but the '19 rotation did feel under-prepared.

Yeah, agreed on all points. It feels like a get-us-through-the-year rotation, rather than one built to be a contender. But we'll see, I guess.

That completely passed me by. Makes sense for this year. Hopefully we can get our runs early today/tonight.

Oh ain't that the truth! I'm still not sure what we have with this team. We aren't as bad as the first three games showed, and we aren't as good as the past seven have shown either. It'll be interesting to see where in-between we land along the way. I thought we might surprise a few people along the way this year. That's still my guess, although if we keep this winning streak up, the cat will be out of the bag.

I lived in NYC for a spell. This was my feeling for them, too. Then again, that's my feeling for most sports fans. Not the most reasonable of groups of people, are we, after all.

And attributed to me the power apparently, to ruin our good times, through merely being back posting. Otherwise why would anyone think to bring such a thing up? As I said, pretty fragile stuff. Maybe stick me on ignore, enjoy life, be ruin-less. You're not getting any younger.