cp176

I hardly doubt that a decision to keep Betts will be dictated by what the fans want or expect. The decision to keep Mookie I think is likely to be made on the fact that shy of Trout he may be the best player in the game for years to come. Signing Mookie long term would be a long way from even resembling a "splashy" move which has been suggested. Giving away a generational talent for next to nothing would be hard to take and I doubt that any amount of spin suggesting that it helps out our farm is going to go over very well.

notin - seriously now this has nothing to do with a discussion about whatever DD did or did not do. We all know how you feel about DD. it is your right to feel that way but it isn't part of this discussion. There must be a thread somewhere that continues to beat up on a past GM don't you think. Personally I'm operating in the here and now. If Mookie is traded and you want to blame it on Dave Dombrowski well that's nice but once again the average fan likely will already have forgotten the past GM's name. He probably does not care about this.

I had a fairly good idea that this might revert back to the pitcher's injuries this year being foreseeable or not. I understand that I tend to look at things differently than you do. It would be nice to think that John Henry took into consideration the potential injury prospects of the players that he agreed to pay for. I get what is being said but I really don't think that it has much to do with whether or not trading Betts for low budget potential makes any sense. If it is all about staying below a certain tax level, ok fine, but I tend to think that the effect it will have on that regular old fan will be painful. In my estimation, it becomes an issue of what we might get in return for trading a player who years from now, many might wish that we had paid for.

Hopefully no one anywhere would disagree with your statement here. Understand also though that I am one of those fans who truly believes that if our pitchers had remained healthy this year we would not be having this discussion. it was a gamble taken that didn't work out. It is possible that a trade involving Mookie might work out as well but I think that if the return brought prospects not major league ready, it could impact the fan base for many years. We are talking Boston here. If trading Mookie brought great results in 3 or 4 years, i just don't think that it would be viewed in the same way that it would be in select small market areas where a team has rarely competed and never won.

Thanks for those kind words.

First pf all, if any fan who follows this team on an everyday basis regardless of where he gets his information is the type of fan that carries great weight. Not every fan is immersed in the game as some of the people who invest so much time here. They work, they have families but still love their team every bit as much as anyone else does. i'm not really sure notin how much of this years team's failures needs to be laid on the shoulders of one of the best in the game. I would love to see him remain in Boston. If he doesn't stay, I hope that he is at least somewhat replaceable. When we start taking about impact players, he has to be at the top of the list. As excited as I was about Nomar, sorry, he was never Betts. Betts is Clemens, Lynn, and Yastezemski like in my book. Franchise changing players. Joe average here - over and out.

I think that we and hopefully others know how important a player like Betts is to any franchise. In losing him, we really don't have much to compare with. He vey well might be that good. I wish that he appeared a little more positive about continuing his red Sox relationship, but who can blame him for attempting to get what he can. Once again, I think that losing this guy without a major effort to keep him, will likely cost the franchise greatly in many ways. Lifelong fans likely will hang around but not everyone is a lifelong fan. I think that trading him for anything on the wrong side of damn good right now, will be very painful. Restocking the farm isn't the end all be all for many people.

I think that all who post here would like to see Bloom succeed. Much of what he does and has done may prove to be just what we need in Boston but the suggestion that basically giving away a player like Mookie Betts for unproven minor leaguers or any young potentially good major leaguers to save money for the franchise wouldn't come with a fan loss, in my opinion is not accurate. Yes long time fans and arm chair GM's who might agree with much of what Bloom advocates will probably hang in there but if the trade did not bring in some exceptional talent right now, a lot of money might appear to be saved for ownership but I think that in the long run it could be quite costly. i might be wrong but I believe that the majority of fans are not data driven 24 hour a day followers of the ups and downs of the franchise. They are simply fans who love their team. In coming to Boston, Bloom is entering the real arena. Trading away a generational talent like Betts may seem like the right thing to do in order to rebuild what many of you think is a stagnant minor league system, but it could come at a great cost. "Joe average" wants to see Mookie Betts stay in Boston. We like our stars.

Even the thought of using Pedroia as a dh is a real joke. When is the last time he got a hit at the big league level? Oh yeah, we could count on that bat - not. As you have already stated, using Martinez for what 50-60 games in the outfield has not hurt this team one bit. We should be happy to have one of the best hitters in the game playing for us.

I was thinking the same thing. it is kind of cool I think. old school all the way.

Exactly what i thought - A west coast thing!

You know that it would be easy for me to say that I lost a great deal of respect for him after he made his statements seen by us all but I'm not really sure that I ever had a great deal of respect for him in the first place. He played hard - He played hurt - he played his ass off - thank you, I appreciated what he did for us greatly but I don't know him. Outside of baseball, since I don't know him, I really haven't fallen in love with the guy. If he is able to come back effectively which I highly don't, He likely would solidify us defensively but I wouldn't expect much at all from him at the plate. He has just been away too long.

You heart breaker. not interested in Dock. Is the 3 headed garden gnome carrying vats of custard a west coast thing or what?

Say it ain't so. How about Dick Groat or maybe I settle for Willie Stargell. Or perhaps you are telling me that I am the Bill Mazeroski fan club.

I may have to reactivate my Bill Mazeroski fan club membership! I was 9 by the way when he did his thing. A pure thing of beauty.

You obviously want to argue. I never said that you said that it is all about range even though it did seem as though you were placing more emphasis on range than i think it deserves. I have no clue where you got your numbers from. i'll take that guy as I have said before who makes all of the routine plays and gets to 100 more balls than the rest can every day. My point is and will not change that i value consistent infield play and that often times even though it looks fantastic the guy who can make the great play gets more credit than he who is consistent on a daily basis.

I personally don't care for these types of examples. Using embellished data to prove hypothetical points doesn't work for me. Kind of obvious I think that some shortstops have better range than others and some make more plays than others. Once again, I value consistency very much. I can live with a ss with average range who makes the plays hit in his range on a regular basis. There are also plenty of players I guess who look good because they get to balls others can't but still prove to be average fielders. It is not all about range. In all honesty, I believe in the use of whatever is available to make a team better with respect to data but an overuse makes the game cumbersome and much less interesting to me.

Hmm - who would argue this? A guy that makes all of the routine plays but his range allows him to get to !00 more balls 80 of which he makes plays on. Yup - I'd take that every day. Who is he? Maybe you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that I valued a fat flat footed shortstop very highly even if he made every play hit right at him.. Most have some range, some have more range than others. I value consistent play in the field very much. Acrobatics really don't turn me on particularly. You are saying that many shortstops today have outstanding range and make all of the plays they should make as well? I'm glad you see it that way. Oh and by the way this has 0 to do with Jeter who by the way I'm pretty sure was one helluva ball player.

If Cherington wants this job, I hope that he gets it. He was a dedicated member of the red sox team. My personal feelings about his specific moves are meaningless. I wish him the best. I hope that he discovers the next Roberto Clemente.

There really is something to be said for players who consistently make the plays that they should make. Too many people fall in love with the athleticism of the guy who can get to every ball and on occasion can make the great great play. if you had to choose, I would take the consistency every day without question.

Now we are talking! Don Buddin was the first Red Sox shortstop that I remember playing. You are correct as well.

Like all of us, i would love to see Mookie stay in Boston forever but a ten year 300 million dollar contract I'm not sure makes any sense. How have the teams made out who have offered these huge sums of money to one player? We are all replaceable.

ditto!

What - you don't like being treated like one of "my" students? As a teacher, I always felt pretty good when my students asked and answered their own questions. It tended to eliminate any personal bias coming from the front of the room.

JD became one of my favorite players quickly. A team player - pays attention greatly to detail - has become one of the best hitters of his era. His is a good story. One team gives up on him and the next thing you know, here he is, a hitter that remade himself. His was a great sign. His bat in the middle of that order has made an incredible difference. Hope he remains with us but if he goes, i hope that he continues to rip that ball regardless of who he winds up with.