example1

I know. It is hard to be in a good mood at the holidays, with so much suffering and discontent in my stomach... thanks to the massive bag of jellybeans my wife got me, my fondness for eggnog, and my developing lactose intolerance! Such misery! too much info? probably.

Jeez, I've missed all the fun while I was eating my state-sponsored bread product and the homogonized 1% milk that they were giving out at the grocery store... I'm glad I had the patience to stand in line long enough to get it. But now I come back to my concrete bunker of public housing and turn on my publicly funded and censored internet to see that a discussion like this has been going on, and I've missed it. If I wasn't on the run to my Marxist-sabermatrician's meeting I would reply with something more powerful. Nothing to get excited about folks. A700 is reverting to his favored attacks and it isn't unexpected. I've had it coming because I dared to not support McCain/Palin, and made it clear I didn't support GWB. I deserve it.

I'm curious why people are looking at IPs rather than pitch counts. I think the discussion is a good one, but the pitch counts more accurately take the wear on the arm into account. -Lester pitched the ball 3309 times last year, 5899 over his career. -AJ Burnett finished #3 in MLB with pitches last year, at 3650--1001 more pitches than he threw in his previous year, and 355 more than his previous career high. -CC led all of baseball last year with 3814 pitches. Make of it what you will, I just think that pitches are actually a better way of looking at it than IP.

LOL @ you making fun of his post without noticing the "In no apparent order" label he put on his list. EDIT: lol @ me for piling on

I'm off the ledge my friend. I'm off. We can have different assumptions about goals, and different views about how to improve the club, what improving the club means, and the value of any particular move on the long term economic health and competitiveness of the franchise. We just tend to disagree. --------------- That said, if anyone has extra Christmas (or festivus) money, I would recommend getting the book "Diamond Dollars". I would love to see if anyone has read it and discuss it a bit. It is a much more complex approach to 'moneyball'--moneyball looked at Oakland as an example of a "small market team" and described how it competed against "big market teams". This book looks at the variables that change among each individual market and the factors that drive particular owners in each market to make the decisions they do. I recommend reading it... I'm not through with it yet, but it should be an interesting discussion.

That must be it a700. What a solid analysis you have provided about their likely thought process.

Yeah, you're right. I think it is much better to just assume that the FO is stupid, or cheap, or that they are intentionally trying to not win, or that they don't know how to win, or that they are just hoarding 'our' money and not doing what they can to win. The suicidal reaction around here after they didn't get Teixeira warrants an attempt at rationalization by calmer heads, IMO. The absurd claims that "Boras clients go after one thing and one thing only: money" overlooks many obvious other points which some may see as rationalizations, but which are actually facts playing directly against the posited theory. If Boras clients --> highest money and only highest money then no Boras client would ever say anything like "I want to be on the east coast", and Boras would never say anything like "so and so discussed it with his family and decided 'x' ". That said, I too am tired of the Teixeira discussion but mostly because I get the sense that there is a groupthink that goes on here, some combination of "I didn't get my way" and "I hate the Yankees" that turns people who were being rational 2 weeks ago into irrational defeatists now. In other news, I don't know where the word "fail" came from, but I find it pretty lame. I feel like I'm walking down a hall in high school and everyone is trying to use the newest lingo but that lingo is already passe.

You're getting more dilusional every day. Teixeira said he wanted to be on the east coast because he wanted to be closer to home. You think he was lying about that? ********. Bull. s***. Yes, there are bigger money teams on the east coast, but anyone who is TRULY willing to get the most money doesn't eliminate teams from the bidding geographically. It just doesn't happen Yeah, which Boras initially turned down, asked for 10 million MORE than that, and then called back and said "we'll take it" without checking in with other teams. Teixeira wanted to be in NY. He got to be in NY. He wanted to be signed by Christmas. He was signed by Christmas. Show me a link or any legitimate piece that says what you are arguing: "Scott Boras always gets his players top dollar and his players never get any say in terms of which city they want to play in or what would make their family happiest". If you can't show it to me then I call bull s***. It's just a fact. Players who sign with Boras always get paid, but they have some say in where they end up as well. Boras would not be the BEST agent if this weren't the case. If what you were saying is true, then the following would warrant a continued bidding, no? Boras clients always go to the highest money =/= BOras clients choosing one team over another with even money. There would be no even money, there would be bidding until one team won out. This isn't a worthwhile discussion to have with you jacksonian. Your team got Teixeira, our team didn't. There is reason to believe that Teixeira wanted to play in NY, given the reports that his wife didn't want to live in Boston and his love of Mattingly and the boner that he (and you) get when thinking about playing ball with other men wearing stripes. I don't know why that's so hard for you to believe... it's like an 'extra' "f*** you!" if you can somehow paint this as solely a problem of Theo's. Of course, Theo wasn't the one who stopped the bidding and it isn't Theo's money. He, unlike Brian Cashman (apparently) doesn't have an open wallet to work with. He actually has to get approval of ownership before writing checks for hundreds of millions of dollars.

No... no... no... stop, stop stop... stop :lol: :lol: :lol: Really? Really? You're going to start saying Red Sox players are overpaid? You think his 3 year, $37.5m deal was excessive, huh? Well, Lowell DID drive a hard bargain, but he will be off the books the year after next, so hopefully the Sox can live under the massive weight of that poor contract until them.

I hope so. He's a good pitcher but he's not a lights out closer. My guess is that he gets the Shields role.

Isn't it just easiest to see it that way? Why look at the actual reports that are coming out. The Murray Chass piece stated pretty clearly that his wife didn't want to live in Boston and that he had prefered NY the entire time. Even if you question the validity of that piece (don't know why you would) did you not notice that Teixeira said he prefered to be on the East Coast? So... does that mean that he "prefered" to be in Los Angeles or that he "prefered" to be in New York? The jeopardy music starts now... At the very least he was allowed to eliminate a number of cities, so the theory that he didn't have any say beyond taking the most money is absurd. If they wanted the bidding to go up why cut it off by Christmas? Why not wait more than 30 minutes after NY's first offer? Oh wait, he said he wanted to be signed by Christmas!! So there's another place where his preferences played out over letting a free-market bidding take shape.

Strange, I thought we lost in the playoffs because Lester wasn't able to shut out the Rays in game 7, Kotsay wasn't able to come through in a big situation late in the game, and the Rays won that game. I mean, yeah, they lost 4 games total in the ALCS, but they got to game 7. They probably would have had a better chance if Beckett were healthier, but to say they lost because of Beckett seems extreme. They had a chance to win despite his underperfromance.

I think they failed to achieve their #1 priority in terms of acquisitions. I think they have shown, time and again, that their #1 priority is to not get bogged down with stupid contracts, not make reactionary moves to placate fans, and to have a majority of their team come from the farm rather than spending on a hodge-podge of overpaid players from FA. Given that you thought pitching would improve them more than getting Teixeira, does that mean that you advocated them getting Sabathia, or that you think Lowe or Burnett adds more to a team than Teixeira? IMO, only Sabathia offered the type of run/win swing that a guy like Teixeira would.

This is why I find it hard to take your opinion seriously with regard to how minor leaguers should be used to improve the MLB team. Doesn't it matter to you that some players at that level are the next Tony Clark and some are the next MVP? It isn't that hard to pay attention to who the best players are in the Sox minor league system, and other minor league systems. I think it means your valuation of the franchise and its assets is skewed... how else can one see it? I understand not saying "Lars Anderson is the best hitter in baseball", but if the Sox talent scouts believe he will be better than a vast majority of MLB hitters, doesn't that mean something to you?

Honestly, I only started hearing the "we need a big-time SP" claim after the Sox didn't get Teixeira and I think it is kind of disingenuous. If it wasn't a significant weakness in the team two weeks ago, it isn't a significant weakness now... at least not one that should cost 1/10th of the team's payroll or a significant expendature in young prospects.

That's what I thought Kilo. Lots of upside, but I just don't think the Sox should trade well-developed players for a catcher that could end up being somewhere in the MLB-starter on average-MLB team range. I think we're many here are at risk of underestimating how good Bowden can be in 5 years or so. He's got a big frame, a good FB, a few good pitches and looks like a bulldog on the mound. He's also young for his level of development. I would be fine with this team getting a hold-over and making a serious offer to Joe Mauer in two years if he becomes a FA.

Yes, but the point I make time and time again is that the only team that doesn't give two shits about how much money they spend, the only team whose FANS don't give two shits about money, are the Yankees. Fans here can disagree about whether that is valid or not, but the Mets care about it, the Angels care about it, the White Sox care about it, the Cubs care about it, the Dodgers care about it, the Tigers care about it, the Guardians care about it, the Mariners care about it, the A's care about it... I could go on. Many of those teams manage to compete, with teams like the Mets and the Angels competing year after year. The Sox happen to be in the same division as the Yankees, so it is tougher but it doesn't mean they have to suddenly become stupid. I don't think the Sox are poor, but a poorly spent dollar is a poorly spent dollar. I am glad this team didn't make AJ Burnett the highest paid player on the team--it isn't 'crying poverty' it's just not being willing to spend a stupid dollar. Other people may disagree. I don't think he's worth that to anyone. Of active pitchers (over 1000 IP), the following starters have a better career ERA+ than Burnett (there are a few retirees included): Pedro Santana Webb Oswalt RJ Halladay Zambrano Schilling Smoltz Hudson Buehrle Lowe Peavy Sabathia Wood Lackey Pettitte Beckett Sheets Zito Carpenter Colon Escobar The following active pitchers (over 1000IP) have a better WHIP: Pedro Santana Schilling Maddux RJ Smoltz Peavy Mussina Oswalt Sheets Halladay Beckett Webb Sabathia Wood Hudson O. Hernandez Vazquez Lowe Buehrle Lieber The following active pitchers have a better K/BB ratio than Burnett: Schilling Pedro Sheets Santana Lieber Oswalt Mussina Maddux Vazquez RJ Peavy Halladay Beckett Smoltz Harang Lackey Sabathia Millwood Muehrle Carpenter Milton Webb Wood Weaver Myers Morris Perez Pettitte O. Perez Pettitte Byrd Lowe Lilly Pavano Loaiza Silva Colon Garcia O. Hernandez Arroyo Should I go on? Burnett is the 6th highest paid pitcher in baseball. D-Lowe would make this team better too, but I don't see people freaking out because they likely aren't going to get him. The Yankees are doing everything they can to make themselves better. They should. They've spent, what, something close to a BILLION dollars to win a WS this decade and they have ZERO. I honestly don't care. This isn't a non-profit agency, it's a business. Frankly, I think this team will compete and will be fun to watch. I think Burnett is an injury waiting to happen and I don't think he's more valuable than Beckett, or Dice-K or Lester. I say we go round and round on this until Spring Training. Eventually I will bow down and admire you Jacksonian, because not only are you an amazing person, but your team, which reflects directly on you as a person and as an intellect, is amazing. When the Yankees win I will feel inferior not only to their gigantic team, but to you. I can just feel your ego grow with each of these purchases, as if you had anything to do with it.

Felix gets my vote. He's sick.