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Aren't there enough places where this is being discussed? Your smug picture of Teixeira in that dorky NY hat makes me think you're rehashing this just to stroke your own johnson.

Did their drafting him prevent him from being picked randomly by any other teams that might pay 3 million for him? Are late round picks that prevent other teams from signing a guy, and which would likely be used on a player who stays in the minors for his career (if that) valuable if only to prevent other teams from drafting him? I'm mostly curious, not trying to prove a point.

Dunn's a good player. I just don't see an easy slot for him with the team as currently constructed. I also wouldn't be shocked to see the Sox show some interest and get creative to put some of these guys on their team. Mostly I'm just sick of Jacksonian's bold pronnouncements about the Sox and the yankees and then listening as they splat in June and July and nobody cares because, well, frankly, who could expect someone to be right in December about what happens in July? I don't care about your claims about a disaster off season. It doesn't seem like one to me. They have money to spend, they have young talent, and they have a team that is younger than the Yankees that is capable of winning 95 games for much less money. I'm just not that concerned about the offseason, aside from the Teixeira loss.

To me this is a pretty top heavy FA class, and the top three are probably Teixeira, CC and K-Rod. The later two the Sox (and frankly few on this board) had interest in. We all know Teixeira was available, and the Sox loved him. I'm frustrated that they appear to have been outbid, but I can't help but cringe a bit when I hear "the Yankees offered 180, and Boras told them they needed to add 10m. He called back 20 minutes later and said Teixeira would take it." And then we find out Teixeira wanted to play for the Yankees the whole time and, it appears, was willing to let Boras back off the negotiation train as soon as the Yankees made a legitimate bid. I'm confident that if the Sox bid 180 Boras would say "go 10m higher" and he wouldn't call back 20 minutes later. We can guess all we want, but it feels to me like a situation where Teixeira ultimately got what he wanted. The money was an important factor, but so was where he ended up and playing in Boston wasn't some long held dream that he had had like playing in NY was. That said, I don't see a whole lot of places for the Sox to have gone with their supposed huge piles of newly found money. We aren't going to bid on Adam Dunn, we weren't going to go to the mat for Burnett the way the Yankees did and we weren't going to give CC a Teixeira sized deal. To me it seemed like an all or nothing situation, with all being a luxary the Sox can afford to pass up. We may not like the results, but we are still arguing whether or not they are the BEST team in the East, or merely one of the contenders. I see your point of view Kilo, but I don't see an obvious place to spend money so I don't fault them for not being able to spend it yet. Yes, working out a deal for Youk or Bay or Lester would be wise, but we don't know where those negotiations are at or what the intentions of those players are. Perhaps they all saw Teixeira sign massive deals and said "no way am I signing with the Sox for less than I could get on the market!" Do you think they should trade someone like Jason Bay to get a needed piece (say, a catcher or SP), then sign Adam Dunn or someone like that? Manny's sure isn't coming to Boston, and they were never interested in K-Rod. Aside from trading someone they have now that they could replace with a FA, I don't see where people expect the money to come from.

I can't say I disagree, though I would do my best to hold onto Bowden if possible (I realize that Buchholz is gone in any deal for someone as talented as Hanley). Ultimately, if the Sox were able to get Hanley BACK from the Marlins by giving up only players who were not even an afterthought in the first Hanley deal, that's a pretty good thing. The end up with both ends of the same deal with Beckett, Lowell AND Hanley for players they have developed since that trade went down. Again, it isn't happening, but it says something about the type of thought this FO is willing to pursue.

Wow. Make up an argument so you can hear yourself repeat how great you feel your team is. Nice one jacko... I think the only negative thing I've said about the Yankees (aside form their absurd spending and my belief that they couldn't win with a salary cap) is that I'm not sure how their team will come together. I don't think that is anything far out. My guess is that would be the only caveat you would have about their potential success too, and injuries I suppose. EDIT: I assume you read the "spending money does not mean getting quality" part, and didn't read much further. If that's all you read I can see why you would think I'm making a veiled attack on the Yankees. I'm not. I'm merely saying that if this team (the Sox) had overspent on FAs the last few years and their payroll was so high that nobody could realistically expect them to spend more, that wouldnt make them in any better of a position than they are currently in. Two days ago Kilo made the arguement (which was right) that the Yankee fans who brag about "coming in with a lower payroll" are basing that on a horribly run franchise the past few years, one which overspent--not just by a little, but by a ton--on guys who sucked. it assumes that a 200m payroll is what is a baseline, when, in fact, the baseline could be much lower, given that so many other teams do just as well with a much lower payroll. The Yankees spent their money wisely for this year, although we will see over the life of the contracts how smart it was overall.

You know what's funny? That you treat that like it is fact, when, in fact, it is not. And so your Marlins would continue to struggle to be in the middle of the pack in the NL East. Every player should have their price. You wouldn't give up Hanley for a package of Papelbon, Pedroia, Ortiz and Ellsbury, with Anderson and Lowrie thrown in for good measure? What a stupid overgeneralization to make Gom. Geez... Who says he is on the market. This is the first I've heard of anyone enquiring about him. Wow, bold prediction Gom. So the season will have to play out before you can know for sure? Sounds like you agree with everyone else. Yeah, Buchholz has no chance of doing better than he did last year and the improvement of the starting CF and SS has no bearing on how a team does. For that matter, it will be hard to improve on Tek's .220 AVG and zero power. Maybe they'll put a batboy in there and hope for the best. Again, I think catcher will be better than last year--almost regardless of who it is. Ortiz had a pretty bad year so I expect he'll return to something better. Lowell missed a good chunk of the year too. Pedroia may have a worse year... of course, most players don't peak at 24 so any downturn could be followed by an upturn the following year. Manny caused a lot of trouble for this team and Bay won't. You can call it a non-factor if you want, but the team went into a pretty bad skid near the deadline and a number of them blamed it directly on the mood in the clubhouse during a west coast swing. A few games here, a few games there... Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Bay, Drew, Ortiz, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Masterson and Papelbon? Maybe Bowden thrown in there for good measure... When I look up ages it's funny. I see this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters Maybe it's not updated, but when I click on the teams it seems updated from what I can tell. The Red Sox are, as a team, .5 years older than Tampa, while the Yankees are .8 years older than the Sox, and 1.3 years older than Tampa, as a team. The Rays rank 14th, the Sox rank 17th and the Yankees rank 26th. Weird. I would have expected a huge gap between the 'old' Red Sox and the super young Rays. Weird. I actually agree with you. Unless they get something nice in return Nady is a nice piece to have. Sure Gom. Is this like when you were so objective about the way that VORP works (it gets exponentially harder to get VORP points, so the difference between one number and the next is actually 'many' numbers), or about the vast age difference between the Red Sox and the Rays, or the Red Sox and the Yankees? We all do our best to stay objective. Since all you do is s*** on your own team, and since nobody here actually cares to discuss the Yankees in depth, I suppose it is easy to come in and pretend to be the voice of reason, while your maniac cat shoots is absurd machine gun into space. TheKilo knows what's what. You're a good poster here, but you don't have access to some level of objectivity that nobody else can touch, or that very few can aspire to. This isn't your first time around the track, so nobody's fooled.

What does it matter. If it isn't 100% it is just a probability and we will need to see how it plays out. Longoria could get injured, he could slump for the first third, or he could be David Wright to Lowell's Goliath Wrong (bad pun, sorry). Tisk tisk. If I said the same thing about anyone else you would rip on me. FWIW, Upton didn't do s*** in the WS. It's all hypothetical and subjective. So when you say: I call foul. That's all. I don't think it is objective. I would say that objectively the kind-of underperforming Sox team of 2008, mired in controversy with injuries and a slugger who would occasionally refuse to play, put up a lot of runs and prevented a lot of runs. By that objective measure, with a subjective addition of a few more, and a subtraction of a few more from that, they are still a very good club. "Objectively" is a word that doesn't carry much weight with me. It's ultimately all subjective, just based on whatever objective facts you (or I) posit to make our particular case. Of course you 'get it' but you post with some ferocity when there are people here who disagree with you, which makes it seem like you do care if people disagree with you. You probably don't care that much, but you ask them to explain themselves and ask the same redundant questions when you don't like the answers that you get. It seems like you do care. Who is going to win the Super Bowl? I want an objective answer, none of this cop-out "we will have to see" s***. Why give an answer as if it is certainty when the whole world knows your just guessing. That's the kind of lame s*** that Colin Cowherd does and anyone with a critical mind takes it with a grain of salt. It turns into a predictions thread, nothing more. You have to admit sometimes you're a bit cocky--any Sox fan with some serious knowledge will slip into that occasionally... s***, look at me! Look at ORS! (Sorry ORS, I kid, I kid). We all can be that way. A duncetard!?!? I never called you that. Kilo, I think you're probably my favorite or second favorite poster here. You have a unique perspective and you shoot straight. I'm sorry if I've offended you over baseball, and I guarantee that we would enjoy drinking a beer together and arguing this s*** in person. Again, sorry if I somehow slipped the word duncetard into anything I said--even if I've never used the word and hope to never use it again... I agree. The Sox may be unfortunate like the Patriots were this year, in that their division may squeeze otherwise good, playoff caliber teams out of the playoffs. I wouldn't be shocked. Even if the Sox are lucky enough (because luck is largely involved over 162) another qualified team may not... perhaps through no fault of its own. That's just the way the ball bounces.

I wouldn't have said you were nuts. The move makes a lot of sense. Basically I think that the Sox have one BIG trade acquisition in their arsenal. The combination of Buchholz/Bowden/Ellsbury/Bard/Masterson can net them something very nice indeed (not all of them, mind you, but some combination) and leave them with enough young talent to move forward comfortably. You ask "who is available"? and I think I have the same question. So why assume the Sox can't do anything or haven't looked? Who do you suggest they trade their players for to pitch? I have suggested that they make a big run for Felix Hernandez, and like everyone else we have explored the Peavy rumors. Who do you propose? Until you throw out names I can only go with who we know are available. D-Lowe, Penny, Smoltz, Sheets, etc., That's my bad a700. You are upset with them because you don't think they've gotten better. I realize that you don't care as much about the money piece as some other posters here, and I apologize if I put bad words in your mouth. I think that Brad Penny is a risk like Eric Bedard or Jason Schmidt (a few years back) and that he's considerably cheaper. If he pitches well for a contract and pulls it together then great. If not, this is a team that throws Wakefield out there every fifth night and says its okay if he's .500. The offense carries plenty of bad pitching. As long as a bad Penny isn't starting in crucial playoff games I'm fine with it... for now.

You're right a700hitter. It was a stupid move. They should have gone with the sure thing like Ben Sheets or John Smoltz. Or maybe they should have locked themselves into a 4 year deal with Derek Lowe to make him the highest paid player on their team, after he wasn't good enough to be in the playoff rotation during the 04 playoffs. If Lowe were willing to take a hometown discount then perhaps I would think differently, but it sounds like he wants to make s*** load of money and would cost a draft pick--players are trying to hold the Sox hostage to get to play on a contender AND make more money than they're worth, largely because they think that fans like you will raise a ruckus if the Sox don't spend spend spend. I don't think that's going to sway their management.

You are crowning Price to be God, despite what happened to Buchholz and Hughes, Kershaw and Bailey. Price is a great prospect. I think Kazmir has slowly gotten worse the last few years, and he wasn't the pitcher in the playoffs (or down the stretch for that matter) that he was in 2006 against the Sox. Wow. 100% certainty. I don't play in 100% claims. Longoria will probably be better than Lowell. He's a good player who had 9 HR and a .784 OPS last year. I think the Rays have less certainty that he's god than you do. It's not a crime, it's just a claim that you can't back up. It's opinion and opinions are like *******s, everyone's got one. Yours are just much more important than everyone elses, apparently. Is this what you want to hear: "Kilo's right. Sox are the 3rd best team. I agree." There you got it. It doesn't much matter if I believe it or not, and I don't believe it because the only way it is proven is over the course of the season. The season hasn't happened yet so any claim is hypothetical at best. Right, you think they are the 3rd best team in the ALE and you find it difficult for anyone to refute what you think, which is all you've been saying this whole time. We get it. You believe your own opinions. I'm going to wait for the season to play itself out. What I KNOW is that the Sox, Rays and Yankees all have good teams. On paper I think the Yankees are the best team. Based on last year's performance I think the Rays--if they continued to play like they did last year--might be the favorites. I think when I combine how they've played the past few years, and the teams on paper the Sox are the best team. I'm not so certain about anything that I'm going to get all hot and bothered about it and I'm not going to get cocky and pretend like I know how the season is going to turn out before it has been played. It doesn't work well when you're dealing with other people who follow the game and have their own opinions. I don't know, respect from me? If this team wins 95 games and doesn't make the playoffs then ho hum. I'm not going to stamp my foot and bitch about stuff that isn't controllable at this point. The Yankees have Teixeira. We all know the Sox would be better if they had him, but they don't. What more is there to say?

I HAVE ANSWERED YOU OVER AND OVER. If you don't like it, tough s*** Kilo. Spending money doesn't mean getting quality. Your assumption is the exact same as you accused the Yankees of yesterday: why do you assume that they have to spend all of that money on players, even if players aren't available? You praise them for not spending on guys like Pedro and Damon, but then you rip on them for not having a higher payroll, as if a higher payroll means that they are patting you on the back saying "it's okay Kilo, it's okay. It will all be alright. It's okay". It just doesn't f***ing matter. Who will they spend it on? I don't know, lets check in next year at this time and see. Youkilis? Bay? Holliday? Lester? If they resigned all of those guys and had a team that cost 20m more would that suddenly make you giddy? No. So stop asking the same redundant question that doesn't actually apply. Yes, they were willing to drop coin on Teixeira. He didn't want to come to Boston and is now a Yankee. We're both over it. If you go to the store to buy something expensive, and FOR WHATEVER REASON you can't get it (they are sold out, the thing is broken, it isn't what you thought it was) do you turn around and go spend that money on something else? I don't. You think if they spent 30m on 2 years of Sheets, 100m on 6 years of Adam Dunn, and got Varitek for 2 years at 20m total, you would be happy that they dropped 150m on three players and lost 3 draft picks while picking up players who are redundant? Personally, you come off like a spoiled kid who didn't get what he wanted and demands someone get him what he wants. I know you're NOT that way, as I've always been impressed with you on this board; you just ask questions that don't have obvious answers but which aren't really valid questions anyway. Where do they spend the money they were going to spend on Teixeira? Who says they HAVE to spend that money to be competitive? You said yourself they were likely a 95 win team, so why spend money needlessly when there isn't an obvious answer? If Pujols were available do you think they would forego spending on him? How about someone like Matt Cain or Felix Hernandez? If you truly believe that they wouldn't be interested in those guys then you're delusional... which you're not. Basically, I think you set up a false premise (spending money = getting better) and then run with it. I don't agree with your premise, I don't agree that they have to get better to compete. I think they have competed nearly every year since 2003 and I think they will do so again this year. Meanwhile I hear about them inquiring about Hanley Ramirez and I'm not shocked. To me THAT is the kind of move that makes lots of sense. You ask what have they been doing while not getting Teixeira and not negotiating with Youkilis, and it turns out they've been asking how to get Hanley Ramirez. They are NOT dealing Buchholz and Ellsbury etc., to get Santana so they have to resign him at 22m/ year. Drop Buchholz and Ellsbury for a guy who is signed for 5 years and who makes your team better for a decade potentially. I think we can just agree to disagree. I'm going to continue to find your pessimism and certainty about the intentions of the club to get rich and treat us all as suckers for paying to watch them kind of grating.

In theory, the Red Sox will have a healthy Ortiz and Lowell, who should improve the team because, in theory, Kotsay and Casey won't be starting extra games. Beckett should be better than last year. Buchholz couldn't be worse. I have reason to think that having Lowrie at SS should be better than a half-season of Lugo. I also think Ellsbury will be more productive than he was last year. Tell me why you can have so much confidence in a healthy Longoria, and Upton, but you can't believe that having even two of the guys listed above wouldn't be an improvement for the Sox? The Yankees got better. We get it. I want to see how they come together before crowning them gods. It's not "hard to believe" that the Sox are the third best team, that's just the point. At the same time, I don't find it "hard to believe" that the Sox are the second best team... not just in the AL East, but in the AL, perhaps in all of baseball. If we jumped ahead a year and someone said "the Rays had injuries and just never put it together like they did in 08" that wouldn't be hard to believe either. Just like it wouldn't be hard to believe that Burnett could get injured. The point isn't that it is hard to believe, the point is that nothing is set in stone, so why act like it is and condecend on others if they don't see it your way? I'm optimistic about this team because I thought they were very good last year, and the year before. They didn't lose anyone significant and they don't have a bunch of REALLY old players (wakefield aside). They have a solid pen, a very good defense, and batters 1-9 who make difficult outs.

He's not the worst pitcher ever, you're right about that... He just had his 41 y.o. season. "He should age well" is something you say about 33 year olds, isn't it? I would think anyone with a regular spot in any rotation should be expected to get 180+ IP. Sweet. win as much as he loses. I call seasonal expectations of .500 a "downside". Look, I like Wakefield. I am one who enjoys a bargain. I also just think this is a team that can afford to have a dynamic pitcher 1-5 instead of someone who we should expect to be around .500. Yes, that has value, but it's not going to get you to stop talking about how great the Yankees are, is it? Seems to me that if people are going to bitch about the Sox team (or brag about how much better their team is on paper) they should take a hard look at a guy who we expect to be about .500 who is in his low 40s and who takes up two roster spots.

Me too. I hope they re-explore this deal, as Hanley would be a great addition to this team with his current contract. I just don't love the idea of him in CF.

Jesus Christ you're a negative guy a700. Yes, Brad Penny and Jason Johnson are indistinguishable. The Sox are blind and you are extremely prescient. Does anyone else remember when Jason Johnson finished 3rd for the Cy Young two years ago? Jason Johnson was AWESOME when he started the 2006 All Star game for the NL, remember that? I remember how dominant Johnson was when he pitched in the 2007 all star game too. They're basically the same. method: Find potential high reward move by Sox Find obvious failed low reward move by Sox Conflate the two in an obviously weak way 700, if Penny sucks he probably won't pitch all that long. If he doesn't suck he gets a huge payday next year. He's not Jason Johnson and he's not Josh Beckett. He's a high reward, medium risk pitcher signed for not very much in a contract year. When healthy Penny could hit 96 on the gun and was pretty dominant. Not many #5 starters do that.

I hear you C.D., I hear you. I just feel like some people are claiming that the Sox are hands down the 3rd best team in the division and I don't hear a lot of people challenging that premise, which I think is is certainly an unsure proposition.

The article said they are 'happy' with Jed Lowrie and would want to use Ramirez in CF. Hmmm, I don't get that. I would say move Lowrie, Buchholz and just about any other prospect the Marlins want. They want Ellsbury, but I think Hanley is most valuable at SS and moving him to CF sounds like an unnecessary adventure. If the Sox had another CF option then I would be open to moving Ellsbury.

Why not? Every batter in the lineup works pitchers and makes tough outs. They have 'lesser' players who would bat cleanup on just about any other team in baseball. I think guys like Bay and Drew are being vastly underestimated by a number of people here.

You mean the Yankees, before the rise of the current Red Sox ownership? I agree. Yankees missed last year. They had a great run when the Red Sox tried to compete by buying the 'best available free agent', and they couldn't compete as well as they do now. Shocker.

Actually, we didn't miss the playoffs. We haven't missed them for two full seasons. The Sox got to the 7th game while underperforming their pythagorian W-L, they didn't lose any key pieces of their lineup (in fact most got healthier, in theory). They should have a positive contribution from either Buchholz OR Bowden and I see no reason to think that they won't be able to win just about any game this season, just like last year. Just like the year before. It's a bunch of bitch bitch bitch from a team that 28 other teams would gladly take. If the Sox were in any other division they would be front runners. If they were in the NL we would be talking World Series. Instead, it's "3rd best team in the division, PROVE to me they aren't 3rd best" or "you're an idiot if you think they're not the 3rd best"... yawn. We didn't get Teixeira. Get over it.