example1

Second rate and not funny.

How can he be upset? The only team that would put up with his s*** traded him last year. He was costing less when the Sox put him on waivers years ago and nobody took him. Now he's older and is obviously a selfish *******. He probably thought that having a monster season in LA would motivate teams to get him, but I think it showed that he was dogging it in Boston more than anything. Everyone knew he was good, he just proved he wasn't trying and wasn't injured when he said he was. He had a very good thing going in Boston but he got greedy and now Jason Bay has his position. Tough s*** Manny. Tough s***. He will sign with the Angels or the Dodgers IMO.

Good luck with that one. I don't like Cameron as a player that much so good riddance. He's one of those guys who gets talked about a lot but who just doesn't impress. Fills a need for NYY, but not someone the Sox would have been interested in this year.

The Sox would only need to claim poverty if they weren't able to compete. I think claims of "superior management" or "better baseball knowledge" would be more appropriate, given that the Sox have won and the Yankees have not the past few years.

I just threw up a little, in my mouth. If correct it makes JD Drew's deal look more than reasonable. 18.2 per-season for Burnett. Wow. To put it in context, Drew is currently the Sox highest paid player at 14m, and Ortiz is 2nd, at 12.5. A-Rod makes 32m in 2009, CC will get close to 23, Jeter will get 20, Burnett would get 18.2, Rivera gets 15, Posada gets 13.1, Damon and Matsui will each get 13. That's 147 million for 8 players. I think the Sox spend their money more wisely.

Wow. The Mets should finally be able to wrap up well-pitched games.

Burnett getting anything more than 15m/year will re-stoke my feelings that the Yankees are making stupid deals. They are raising the entire market seemingly to outbid themselves. I mean, they know Burnett isn't that good. They know he isn't going to the Sox, and probably isn't even going to the AL. Yet they will pay millions and millions more than they know he is worth to land him... CC Wang Burnett Joba Pettitte (?) Would they move Hughes and the other youngsters, or not resign Pettitte and use them as the 5th spot? Seems like there is more here than meets the eye.

Me too Coco's. Me too. And John Smoltz for, say, 9 mil. What the hell, we're paying Lugo, right? I won't calm my anxiety until Teixeira is a Red Sox, at which point I will likely get quite excited by: Ellsbury Pedroia Ortiz He who shall not be named Youkilis Drew Bay hitting 1-7 for a number of years...

Lowe to NY doesn't worry me too much. I don't think he's much better on any given day than a "hot" (as in pitching well) Mike Mussina or Andy Pettitte.

I agree with this last part, and was inclined to say 8/160. However, I fear that if the Yankees land Teixeira, Burnett and CC then they will be the team we had hoped they wouldn't become. The last few years we knew they spent the money, but we knew they had holes. If they fill those holes with actually GOOD pitching and an ACTUAL top 5 bat (not that pretend piece of s*** that Giambi is) then we could be looking up at them for the next 8 years, which I really don't want. So I raise it about 3 million per year and think that ensure that the Sox are near the top of the league for awhile, which may save money by influencing players like Papelbon and Youkilis to stay in Boston because they will see the Sox as a winner. It's weird logic, but basically Teixeira should help ensure their superior club status for awhile, and that status might help them save money down the road in signing the good players that they have currently. Between Youkilis, Lester and Papelbon, I think competitiveness could save them 3 million a year.

Tough question. 8/184m with incentives for MVP, WS MVP, All-Star, gold gloves. Two club options to make it 10 yrs if the club wants. No no-trade clause (until 10/5 status) Hope it doesn't take that much though.

Do you guys really think that teams haven't tried to find Pedroia's weak spots yet? How many times has he played the Yankees, D-Rays, etc., in games that mean a lot? My sense is that he will lay off pitches that are in his weak spots, and swing at ones he knows he can hit.

I think the correct way of putting this is "Gom can only hope they don't hold together". Your team's core is aged and less effective than they used to be. Ours is young and blossoming. Profound Gom... Nice attempt at an insult. "Nothing but a singles hitter" on the outer half of the plate? So when pitchers make their pitch he gets hits, when they mess up he gets great hits? Okay. I think the same was true of guys like Ted Williams, no? You see holes in Pedroia's swing, but not Youk's? I think both of them have exceptional plate discipline and plate control. Pedroia has an MVP under his belt at an age (24) where Youkilis had not yet entered the MLB ranks. I think you're doing some wishful hoping here my friend. We all know this is a possibility, but so is the possibility that Jeter gets hit by a car or that Joba gets fat and injured. Right? Or, Wang could just keep getting injured like he has a few times. You can't say for damn sure, so why even bring this stuff up? Wishful thinking on your part, not ours, that's for sure.

That's fine. If he really wants to test the market he will test the market. I would rather the Sox not overpay for a closer, even though Papelbon is a very good one. I can imagine a few teams making a strong run at him, and I don't expect the Sox to overpay for a closer. At the same time, I imagine Paps wants to stay in Boston. Papelbon has a little bit of that me-first attitude. I can see why, and I don't blame him. I'm just not shocked that Pedroia would sign a long term deal and Papelbon would prefer to test the market. Hopefully they get Youkilis signed soon. EDIT (speculation to follow, didn't feel like making a second post): Youkilis has a chance to really shape the future of this franchise. If he takes a 'home town' discount like Pedroia did I think the Sox will be in great shape. Youkilis should probably get 10-11m a year in a deal now, whereas if he were a FA I would think his AAV would be closer to 12-14m. A deal along those lines would save the Sox some money and give them a talented corner man to boot. With Teixeira likely to sign before CC, and CC looking like he would rather not pitch in NY, it seems that if the Sox were to sign Teixeira then the Angels would likely jump in with a deal CC would like and he would go there. Hence, the Yankees looking into Teixeira (even though they prefer CC), and the Sox looking at Teixeira. Whew! Deep breath. If the Angels re-sign Teixeira then is it possible that the Sox and Yankees will push very hard to land CC? I think so. I get the sense that the Yankees feel like they have to get one of the two to placate their fans. I don't think the Sox are in the same situation, but they probably want to add something significant this offseason. Would a situation like that (Angels getting Teixeira, Yankees outbidding everyone for CC, or CC going out west anyway) open up the possibility of the Sox looking at making a deal to land Jake Peavy from San Diego? He seems like the silent option that is out there. He's a better pitcher than Lowe and Burnett (considerably better IMO) and the Sox have some young talent they could move, including Bowden or Buchholz, Masterson, Delcarman, Anderson, Reddick, etc., If the Sox were to land Teixeira would it make any sense to move Anderson in a potential Peavy deal? I believe Peavy said he would have Boston on his veto list, but I doubt this is because he doesn't want to play in Boston and may have more to do with no-trade clauses or something... does anyone else like Peavy, who is under contract for 9, 15, 16, 17 and 22m per year from 09 thru 2013--considerably less than CC, who is a comparable pitcher. A rotation of: Beckett Peavy Dice-K Lester Wakefield/Buchholz/Bowden/Byrd would be pretty good, especially with Beckett, Peavy, Dice-K and Lester in the playoffs with Buchholz possibly trying to beat some of those guys out.

Interesting press conference. Theo mentioned that they have been scouting him for over a year and had seen him pitch more than 20 times. Tazawa mentioned that the Sox were the first to scout him. Their scouts had "very strong convictions from the beginning", according to Theo. They must see something that sets him apart from others. This was a delicate process for the Sox I'm sure. I think they had to balance the negative impact it would have on NPB's view of the Sox, with the obvious publicity of getting another Japanese talent to join the Sox because he feels comfortable with the Sox preparation, translators, development program, etc., I think there can be little doubt that the Sox are near the top of MLB teams at being able to scout, recruit and sign talent coming out of Japan. The results may not come for 5-10 years, but one has to imagine that the next time an Ichiro or Dice-K kind of talent comes out the Sox will be one of the major players able to offer a comprehensive package for his services. More video posted on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQjy4SMbEYg&NR=1 His secondary stuff does appear to have good movement and command, which seem to compliment his fastball. Obviously its hard to know how much will translate against better hitters and with the American baseball. AA will be a very good test for him and it should be interesting to see how he does.

I think this discussion is really overshooting the value of a catcher. Would anyone trade last year's Youkilis for in-his-prime Varitek? Tek's VORP: 2008: -2.1 2007: 23.4 2006: 2.8 2005: 39.6 2004: 39.1 2003: 32.9 2002: 16.8 Look at the VORP lists from those years. Catchers are a fickle bunch. Other than guys like Tek, Mauer, Posada and a few others in their prime, catchers have wild variances in VORP from year to year. It seems best to get your catcher cheaply and hope for a great season, and build up the elite hitters in positions where elite hitters roam: 1b, 3b, LF, RF, DH. If you catch lightning in a bottle then great, but otherwise just settle for a + defensive catcher, or work to get a potential franchise catcher like Tek, Posada, Mauer, etc., through deals for minor league guys. If the Sox get Teixeira they will get a net VORP gain by simply resigning Tek and keeping Youkilis at 3B. Almost any catcher can do what Tek did this year, so either resign him for continuity purposes, or get someone else who is average and they will be fine. Even Salty had a 3.2 VORP last year, and he was a young, part time catcher. They would have a top 5 VORP 3B, top 5 VORP 1B, top 5 VORP 2B, top 5 VORP LF in Bay (combined states he would have ranked 4th in MLB, ahead of Braun), top 10-ish VORP RF, and a top 20 VORP CF. That's a very solid core, that doesn't include a (hopefully) healthy Ortiz at DH. Again, no need to trade Youkilis unless someone comes and absolutely covets him and is willing to give ideal pieces for him. Trading him in order to free up a necessary roster spot held by Lowell would likely reduce his value anyway, since the Sox would be dealing out of necessity not because of a request.

But Youk is high quality already. Why trade him for someone like him? It doesn't make sense. The team is best with a lineup that includes both Youkilis and Teixeira. Period. Youkilis finished 3rd in the MVP voting this year. Why the hell would we trade him? His trade value is high because he is a very good player. Don't you watch the guy bat? Last season wasn't luck. He gives good at bats and is a very productive player. He may not reproduce what he did last year, but who would we trade him for that will guarantee something better. I don't see any glaring holes on this team and feel that you are proposing trading Youkilis just to make a trade. Make a trade with Lowell and prospects. Year after year you have been against holding onto prospects in order to win now, to get the best available player. Now we have many prospects and an established MLB talent in Lowell who we could trade to get a player we need.

I don't think you actually know. First, I doubt you've watched him enough to know that, and second, even if you did watch him a lot I don't think you would be able to tell. Remember, at one point before the 2007 season you said: http://www.talksox.com/forum/talk-sox-forum/8183-red-sox-discussions-rockies-about-helton-2.html ...yet you had the advantage of being able to watch Youk every single game. Again, I think that's hard to know, though I think the Sox could ask for more in return because Salty is potentially more of a project than a finished product. Perhaps Lowell + Bowden without giving the $ for Lowell, or get T.T. from Texas instead. Why trade Youkilis at all? Most teams don't have an elite offensive catcher, and the Sox don't need one either. If the Sox get Teixeira then there is no reason to move Youkilis at all. He's perfect for this lineup and adds versitility.

I agree that the Sox could use another 30+ HR threat, but not because they will be lacking power next year. They need the middle of the order bat that Teixeira offers because Teixeira could be at the top of his game for 8 seasons and that fits nicely with the Sox current construction. Sometimes competition on a team can creat some nice results. Let Lugo earn his way back if he is indeed still part of the team. Or trade him, if they can. Jason Bay is a great pick up and he and Drew should remain on the corners. I think that getting yet another 30+ HR type outfielder is not the option. The real logjam exists in the outfield, in their minor league system. They have a number of players who have high upside, including Reddick, Lin, Westmoreland, etc., who will all be competing for one spot (when JD Drew's contract expires). I think the Sox would be foolish to not sign Jason Bay to an extension, given that it sounds like he loves playing in Fenway and they need a LF and he's one of the best in the AL. Getting Teixeira gives them a bat that will benefit them for a number of years, but there is no need to move Drew until his contract is over, at which time they can try to move up one of their expensive draft picks or international signings and give that player a shot, with Lars Anderson potentially moving to 1B or DH with Teixeira.

CC Sabathia should be their #1 aim, but I just don't think he's worth what everyone is saying he will get paid. I don't like that he has thrown nearly 500 IP over the last two seasons, and I don't think his ERA or ERA+ warrant Santana's dollars. Santana had an ERA below 3 for 4 of the past 5 seasons, of which 4 were seasons in the AL. At age 27 CC has a career average ERA+ (over 162 games) of 121, which is the exact same as Jake Peavy--still very good of course. His WHIP is worse, and he gets fewer strikeouts than Peavy, but he is more durible, which is a pretty big deal so I give him the advantage there. I actually like Peavy a whole lot, and think he should be their priority #1a. I think Sabathia and Peavy are both more complete pitchers than Josh Beckett and both could legitimately have ace status for a team that desperately needs one, as Beckett has been for Boston. Peavy's AAV will be 15.6 over the next 5 seasons, in a deal that is already signed. I don't know if he'd be willing to go to NY, but if he were I would deal a lot to get him if I were NY, and possibly leave CC alone in this market--particularly since it feels like if CC wanted to be a Yankee, he would have signed already. Maybe not... :dunno: I don't expect the Yankees to make a huge push for Teixeira, but they may go after him nonetheless, especially if they lose out on CC. He's a great hitter... my opinions of him are well known around here and I need not elaborate. He would bring them back to the days of having mashers on the corners, but his contracts and A-Rods would be huge, and I think their offense isn't really the problem/can be supplemented by other, lesser players. I think D-Lowe would be a decent fit in NY, a second Wang (who wouldn't want one of those!! bada bing!), and I would avoid Burnett. AJ seems like the kind of guy that lesser teams would break the bank on. His stuff is great but he's the pitching version of JD Drew IMO, and isn't quite worth what it takes to put him on your team. Dunn would be an interesting option, if he can be had for the right (low) price, and DH. He's the successful Richie Sexson. I would also explore a deal for Victor Martinez, potentially as a 1B or C, or DH. He brings a similar maturity and solid bat to what Abreu brought them. Although Bobby A was somewhat disappointing at times (I imagine), he was always a formidable at bat, which the Yankees need right now. If he can't be had then no big deal, but why wait? The Yankees are breaking the bank on a new stadium, A-Rod, Jeter, and they have Mariano Rivera still. They should really make a hard run at the WS over the next 2-3 years before more major retooling needs to happen. Don't tear my analysis apart too much Jacko (or anyone else). I am just doing it for fun and to respond to your well-thought-out post. I haven't put much thought into the Yankees farm system, trading pieces, budget, or potential signees. It's an interesting topic.

I see nothing wrong with signing schilling to a small deal based on incentives. What the hell? I expect nothing from him.

Matsuzaka pitched 13 innings in 3 starts in the 06 WBC. Aside from the poor condition of players that early in the season, I actually enjoyed it and wish there was some way that the best players could represent their countries without jeopardizing their MLB seasons (which are obviously more important).

I was coming here to post the exact same thing. I think their stuff is similar and their roles will be similar. The Sox must think fairly highly of him if they were willing to give up a potential everyday player like Crisp for him--I suppose his age and cost control play a big part in his value.

Do you really think that Teixeira doubts whether he would play in Boston? Do you really think he sees the Sox as stupid enough to NOT play Mark Teixeira if they offer him 22m a year? I don't. Teams don't win the WS twice in 4 years by keeping one of the best hitters in baseball on the bench. He just needs to look at the Sox tolerating Manny urinating in the Green Monster to know that the Sox put their best players forward and worry about other s*** secondarily. I really don't think that moving Mike Lowell is the hang up. The hang-up may be closer to what you're highlighting: the draw of LA and the closeness of these teams in terms of competition.