CrespoBlows

Interesting. You have exact data staring you in the face, yet you continue to deny it. Why is that? Helton, the "crap" comment, this one: I mean, it's OK, when you throw mud, yet when I do it, I'm angry? Please enlighten me, why is this?

Please stop being a hypocrite, and I will refrain from being angry.

They'd be better if they got Tavarez out of the lead-off spot, but they are on the way up. What do you make of Jason Hirsh?

Maybe he should have sat out, because his performance suffered. If were using Games Played as a barometer of talent, then my guy wins, easily. http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pierrju01.shtml Pierre > Helton, Drew, Manny, Ortiz, any baseball player who didn't play in 162 games.

If Beckett dominates it doesn't count, because the Mariners are not in the top 5 offensively. Oh, it's Beckett.... Sorry, I meant if Andy Pettite pitches well tonight it doesn't count, but if it's Beckett it does. me like lol

Yep, but see the post above yours.

Oh, and if they're both under .800, we both lose.

.020, sorry.

So, his OPS is going to spike back up to his '03 levels? Why is that pathetic? Helton is the better hitter. Just not as great as you think he is. Look at the stats. That should make you shut up. All of it says Helton is on the decline, he is a product of Coors Field, and he isn't worth a 6 year deal. Helton also gets to play in 19 games of top 10 offensive ballparks. Here's my prediction, Youkilis will be within .20 points of Helton's road OPS.

I'll let the others on the board be the judge of that. Oh, but I do. Park Factor - 2006 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB 1 Great American (Cincinnati, Ohio) 1.153 1.275 1.026 0.929 0.400 1.065 [b]2 Coors Field (Denver, Colorado)[/b] 1.149 1.167 1.141 1.006 1.224 1.067 3 Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City, Missouri) 1.147 0.982 1.088 1.195 1.207 1.124 4 Chase Field (Phoenix, Arizona) 1.141 1.343 1.101 1.096 1.636 1.084 5 Rangers Ballpark (Arlington, Texas) 1.081 1.066 1.025 1.133 0.778 1.043 6 Wrigley Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.075 1.212 1.011 1.080 1.364 0.898 7 Rogers Centre (Toronto, Ontario) 1.067 1.272 1.031 1.016 2.000 0.954 8 Citizens Bank Park (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) 1.063 1.201 1.007 1.029 0.653 0.955 9 U.S. Cellular Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.054 1.307 1.009 0.912 0.645 1.120 10 Dodger Stadium (Los Angeles, California) 1.046 1.194 1.024 1.019 0.517 1.160 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB 11 Tropicana Field (St. Petersburg, Florida) 1.041 1.164 0.972 0.932 1.609 1.094 12 Minute Maid Park (Houston, Texas) 1.034 1.171 0.989 1.007 1.292 0.965 [b]13 Fenway Park (Boston, Massachusetts)[/b] 1.031 0.727 1.041 1.368 1.000 0.936 14 PNC Park (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) 1.008 0.822 1.118 1.263 1.000 0.980 15 Miller Park (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 1.004 1.006 0.947 0.982 1.364 1.095 16 AT&T Park (San Francisco, California) 0.993 0.681 0.972 1.080 1.049 0.991 17 Camden Yards (Baltimore, Maryland) 0.985 1.184 1.030 0.876 0.600 0.914 18 Comerica Park (Detroit, Michigan) 0.980 0.806 1.016 0.921 1.167 1.020 19 Metrodome (Minneapolis, Minnesota) 0.963 0.836 0.976 0.947 1.591 0.792 20 Busch Stadium (St. Louis, Missouri) 0.950 0.887 0.968 0.886 0.752 1.038 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB 21 Turner Field (Atlanta, Georgia) 0.946 0.929 1.026 0.994 0.722 0.906 22 Jacobs Field (Cleveland, Ohio) 0.946 0.866 0.942 0.982 0.786 1.065 23 RFK Stadium (Washington, D.C.) 0.942 0.859 0.960 0.861 1.370 0.864 24 McAfee Coliseum (Oakland, California) 0.921 0.852 0.976 1.071 0.931 0.899 25 Angel Stadium (Anaheim, California) 0.906 0.801 1.025 0.939 0.793 0.957 26 Shea Stadium (Flushing, New York) 0.902 0.881 0.935 1.003 0.844 1.019 27 Yankee Stadium (Bronx, New York) 0.900 1.065 0.930 0.947 0.483 0.934 28 Dolphin Stadium (Miami, Florida) 0.898 0.881 0.945 0.969 1.405 1.107 29 Safeco Field (Seattle, Washington) 0.881 0.888 0.895 0.913 0.912 1.073 30 Petco Park (San Diego, California) 0.860 0.982 0.905 0.767 1.086 1.012 (Note, this is when the Rockies used the humidor) Park Factor - 2005 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB [b]1 Coors Field (Denver, Colorado)[/b] 1.285 1.119 1.254 1.135 1.481 1.035 2 Citizens Bank Park (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) 1.161 1.289 1.117 1.127 1.406 0.931 3 Great American (Cincinnati, Ohio) 1.128 1.263 1.070 1.187 0.530 0.958 4 Turner Field (Atlanta, Georgia) 1.095 0.879 1.061 1.120 1.399 1.014 5 Chase Field (Phoenix, Arizona) 1.078 1.046 1.045 1.069 1.659 1.041 6 Rangers Ballpark (Arlington, Texas) 1.076 1.263 1.036 1.032 1.812 0.975 7 McAfee Coliseum (Oakland, California) 1.064 0.890 1.015 1.127 0.782 0.980 8 Yankee Stadium (Bronx, New York) 1.051 1.106 1.083 0.882 1.122 0.891 9 U.S. Cellular Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.044 1.375 0.972 0.923 0.864 1.086 10 Rogers Centre (Toronto, Ontario) 1.039 1.255 1.045 1.071 1.085 0.882 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB 11 PNC Park (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) 1.034 0.868 1.058 1.125 1.338 1.018 12 Busch Stadium (St. Louis, Missouri) 1.028 1.148 1.015 1.062 0.628 0.992 [b]13 Fenway Park (Boston, Massachusetts)[/b] 1.027 0.886 0.964 1.324 0.890 1.076 14 Metrodome (Minneapolis, Minnesota) 1.019 0.947 0.972 0.967 0.828 0.897 15 Wrigley Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.015 1.052 1.009 1.058 1.086 0.954 16 Miller Park (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 0.992 1.085 0.895 0.877 0.948 1.032 17 Tropicana Field (St. Petersburg, Florida) 0.986 0.876 1.001 0.904 1.266 0.991 18 Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City, Missouri) 0.972 0.761 1.022 1.157 0.912 0.988 19 Safeco Field (Seattle, Washington) 0.970 0.844 1.020 0.962 0.608 1.049 20 AT&T Park (San Francisco, California) 0.970 0.915 0.963 0.908 1.044 0.974 Rk Park Name Runs HR H 2B 3B BB 21 Shea Stadium (Flushing, New York) 0.963 0.871 1.005 0.952 0.686 1.013 22 Comerica Park (Detroit, Michigan) 0.959 0.944 1.038 0.887 1.737 1.041 23 Minute Maid Park (Houston, Texas) 0.949 1.195 0.990 0.804 0.926 0.971 24 Angel Stadium (Anaheim, California) 0.921 0.901 0.951 0.984 0.988 0.983 25 Dodger Stadium (Los Angeles, California) 0.901 1.049 0.904 0.977 0.416 1.042 26 Dolphin Stadium (Miami, Florida) 0.883 0.803 0.925 0.859 1.095 1.114 27 Jacobs Field (Cleveland, Ohio) 0.880 0.872 0.923 1.043 0.338 1.004 28 Camden Yards (Baltimore, Maryland) 0.876 0.961 0.943 0.824 0.681 1.214 29 RFK Stadium (Washington, D.C.) 0.860 0.775 0.851 0.888 1.051 0.953 30 Petco Park (San Diego, California) 0.803 0.750 0.903 0.832 1.331 0.945 (This is when they did not, and the Rockies are NOT using it this year.) I agree, his average may see a slight rise (about 1 to 2%), but what's left of his power numbers would continue to be chipped at. I'd say he might hit six HR's out of Fenway. (Sorry, can't post links)

If he's good, why would we trade him? The only way the Red Sox would trade a productive ball player is if they got a hell of a deal in return. The Rockies shopped Helton around all winter and got one suitor. Look at the stats again. A .200 fall of in OPS is a major decline. Great point. Since career stats mean a lot when evalutating a player from ages 34 to 41. I think Helton will outhit Youkilis this year. I'm saying he won't trash him like you claim. Helton will probably have a higher road OPS of .15 to .25 points.

You have the perception that Todd Helton will be a productive player at 41 years old, we can trade him if he completely tanks in Fenway, and that Coors Field isn't a major boon to offensive players. First off, we have to adjust for Coors Field. Then we have to set a definition for "trashing."

If you gave Kevin Youkilis a chance, he'd probably do it. Plus, I'm curious to see what Todd Helton would do out of Coors Field. Let's take a look. Away 271 37 72 19 1 7 30 38 3 40 1 0 .266 .360 .421 .781 A .781 OPS away from Coors Field? Real f***ing special. Looks like Kevin Youkilis is the better bet at nearly 1/50th the cost. We want this guy for 6 years? C'mon, just give up.

MAN FUK U WILY MO POP UP FUKING SUX U KNO HUS RAW DARIN ERSTAD HE f***ING PUNTER AT NEBRASK WAS WILY MO POP UP NO SO QUIT PISSIN ON MY CHILDHOOD DAVID ECKSTEIN HAS GRIT IN HIS DNA SO DOES LORETTA BECAUSE GRIT= 50 RUNS A GAME THAT's WHY THE RED SOX ONE THE WORLD SERIES WITH LORETTA DELTA LOL SOUNDS LIKE THE NILE FAG!!!

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3838 He gave up 7 runs in 0.2 innings? He's still an upgrade.

Todd Helton OPS+ numbers: 2003: 168 2004: 159 2005: 144 2006: 119 2007: 115 (small sample size) Todd Helton EQA numbers: 2003: .339 2004: .344 2005: .326 2006: .297 Todd Helton OPS: 2003: 1.088 2004: 1.088 2005: .979 2006: .880 Seriously, how much more stats do I have to show you before you yield the point? Also, this is in Coors Field, an offensive player's paradise.

Again, no one said that Helton was worse than Youkilis. There just isn't the major difference you insist there is. (If we are to make a bet, we have to adjust for ballpark difficulties) I'm desperately searching to find an instance where you've beat me in a bet? I'm trying to find something where you and I even made a bet. Is this another instance, where your perception is failing you terribly?

Could sap his power, which is already occuring. http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=115732 Incorrect. He's 34. Quit being ridiculous. Do you see Ortiz's weight affecting his performance? Do you see Helton's injury causing a major decline? C'mon. Look at the stats just once in a while. That "force" had an OPS+ of only 11 points higher than Youkilis.

Great. You used a sample size of 19 AB's. (It's actually down to .429, his SLG% is .391) Was a superstar. He'll be 41 years old when his deal is over. I doubt he'll be effective at all then. Who said anything about range? 2004 Colorado Rockies 154 547 115 190 49 2 [b]32[/b] 96 339 127 72 3 0 .469 .620 .347 2005 Colorado Rockies 144 509 92 163 45 2 [b]20[/b] 79 272 106 80 3 0 .445 .534 .320 2006 Colorado Rockies 145 546 94 165 40 5 [b]15[/b] 81 260 91 64 3 2 .404 .476 .302 That's what everyone's worried about. He's gone from an OPS+ of 159, to a 119. To put that into perspective, Kevin Youkilis, a player you despise, has an OPS+ of 112. Is Todd Helton really worth the $70 million dollars, plus the three arms?