Article: Hunter Greene, Rumored Red Sox Trade Target, Will Cost an Arm, A Leg, and More

[moonslav59]

56 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Saying that Roman isn't worth waiting for is hilarious. There are 29 other teams that would take him off our hands. 

Anthony did everything but smack a bunch of homers in his first 300 MLB PAs.

He's a keeper, and He's pencilled in my top 4 batters for 2026. He is also THE GUY that makes trading Duran for Lodolo or Ryan even possible. 

I like Mayer more than some here, but I share your deep concerns about his ability to stay on the field. Maybe he'll pull a 2025 Story on us.

I'm far from giving up on KC, but he needs to find a position. Our DH slot is 5 deep. If we trade Duran, we'd have a 4th OF'er slot open, but he needs to play everyday to prove he can get another shot at FT play. 1B is open, but we need serious power, and that slot is ideal for filling that need. (DH, too.)

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed, although I'd pull more than Abreu or say no to Greene. Duran and I C ampbell or Kelly for Lodolo works for me.

Abreu is the one true power bat we have. (34 HRs per 650 in '25.)

That’s fine on Abreu, but when will he ever get close to 650? I would rather have someone who plays everyday, and preferably a RHB.

[mvp 78]

35 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s fine on Abreu, but when will he ever get close to 650? I would rather have someone who plays everyday, and preferably a RHB.

Only 46 hitters got to 650+ last season. Seems like a weird baseline to use? Only 12% of all eligible opening day positions get there (at most). 

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s fine on Abreu, but when will he ever get close to 650? I would rather have someone who plays everyday, and preferably a RHB.

IMO, he is not injury prone. Cora has chosent o platoon Abreu over Duran, and until this season, Duran has been better than Abreu v LHPs. Duran has been in MLB longer, so that should be considered. 

IMO, Abreu would have played FT in 2025 on most teams. Abreu hit .676 v LHPs, this season, while Duran hit .600. (Duran earned FT status while batting .650 v L from 2022-2024. Abreu only had 77 PAs vs L in this time frame at .517.)

Abreu may play FT in 2026, if ref retires or signs elsewhere, but even if Ref is back, I could see Ref platoon at DH with Masa and Abreu play vs L & R. If Duran is traded, it's almost a certainty. Having RHBs Jh Garcia & K Campbell as the OF depth does offer further platoon options, so this is not a sure bet to happen.

What worries me is Abreu's 2 HRs in 145 PAs vs LHPs, career. His power appears to be one-sided.

There are clear advantages to having players who bat well vs L & R, but none of our current OF'ers do. The only one with near equal splits is Rafaela, and he's not a good batter vs either side. 

Best OF'er on D:

1. Rafaela (Difficult CF)

2. Abreu (Very difficult RF)

3. Jh Garcia (can play all OF positions)

4. Duran

5. Campbell

Best Batter vs RHPs (65% of SP'ers) :

1. Abreu

2. Duran

3. Rafaela

4. Campbell/Garcia

Best Batter v LHPs (35%)

1. Probably Garcia

2. Probably Campbell

3. Rafaela

4. Duran & Abreu close to even, but Abreu better in '25.

Running

1. Duran

2. Rafaela

Big gap....

T5 Abreu, Garcia, Campbell

Are you suggesting we change the whole OF, since none hit well vs both sides?

Our OF was one of the best in MLB- on O and D.

 

 

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Only 46 hitters got to 650+ last season. Seems like a weird baseline to use? Only 12% of all eligible opening day positions get there (at most). 

It's a number often used- not so much to project the guy will reach 650, buts as a measuring stick to compare apples to apples and what a full season of hitting might project to being. 

It's easier to grasp what 33 HRs looks like at 650 PAs than to say the guy projects to 22 Hrs per 417 PAs.

if we went to HRs per PA, it would seem meaningless, unless you listed out everybody or the players ranking in HRs per 1 PA.

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Saying that Roman isn't worth waiting for is hilarious. There are 29 other teams that would take him off our hands. 

So lets plan for 4 years down the line because Roman? Lets half go for it , next 2-3 years and waste years of Crochets prime?

Its time to get urgent.

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Saying that Roman isn't worth waiting for is hilarious. There are 29 other teams that would take him off our hands. 

If Roman stays healthy I don’t think you have to wait much longer for him. Mayer, and Campbell may be another story.

[drewski6]

15 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If Roman stays healthy I don’t think you have to wait much longer for him. Mayer, and Campbell may be another story.

Since people are misunderstanding what I meant when I said RA/Mayer/Campbell arent worth waiting around for is that I meant that for years I heard - the sox will be competitive when this group matures.  

And the shiny new toy is such a trap.  But its not like how JoeB says it, its the suspects.  This has always been how sports fans are.  This next group is going to be soooo good.  Yeah maybe, but are they better than the current group who will be washed by the time the next group arrives? Are they worth being borderline competitive for , and half-trying while you wait for them to develop? Theyd have to be reallllllly good to be worth that.

But thats how we did run our club. Under BLoom.  Wait till my prospects. my prospecttttttts (gollum voice). My preciousssssss.  Meanwhile its deadline punt after deadline punt.

Im not saying RA is years away. That he isnt already good. That he should be in AAA. What Im saying is that hes 21, his prime will start in 5 years. DOnt take the next 4 years off because then like whats the point of crochet, chapman.

Roman isnt good enough and neither is mayer and neither is campbell for me to think, we are going to be soooo good in 4-5 years, i really dont care what happens now.

Cuz crochet is better than all of them. combined.

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

So lets plan for 4 years down the line because Roman? Lets half go for it , next 2-3 years and waste years of Crochets prime?

Its time to get urgent.

4 years down the line? He's already contributing now. He's the best hitter the Sox have left. 

[mvp 78]

30 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If Roman stays healthy I don’t think you have to wait much longer for him. Mayer, and Campbell may be another story.

Whatever Mayer provides is a bonus at this point TBH. They just need to have a good backup. 

I have no idea what the dartboard throw will give us with Campbell. I could see him either being a AAAA guy or becoming the 900 OPS guy we thought he'd be. Really high variance with him still. 

[drewski6]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

4 years down the line? He's already contributing now. He's the best hitter the Sox have left. 

Even more reasons to get good players to hit behind him.

When I said hes not worth waiting around for, what I meant was dont plan your compete window around his prime. Our compete window is right now. And hes a big part of that.

I have friends who tell me that we need to wait for RA and Mayer and campbell before we are true WS threats. I say bring back Breggie, get Alonso, trade for one of those reds pitchers and we're in business.  And RA (and even mayer) are a big part of that.

But I dont want to "bridge" to RA's prime. And by that , I mean, I dont want to continue to half-ass it while we wait , wait , wait (which was the bloom years, even bloom said this). RA is ready to help now.  The yankees won a ring in jeters rookie year (i believe).

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Since people are misunderstanding what I meant when I said RA/Mayer/Campbell arent worth waiting around for is that I meant that for years I heard - the sox will be competitive when this group matures.  

And the shiny new toy is such a trap.  But its not like how JoeB says it, its the suspects.  This has always been how sports fans are.  This next group is going to be soooo good.  Yeah maybe, but are they better than the current group who will be washed by the time the next group arrives? Are they worth being borderline competitive for , and half-trying while you wait for them to develop? Theyd have to be reallllllly good to be worth that.

But thats how we did run our club. Under BLoom.  Wait till my prospects. my prospecttttttts (gollum voice). My preciousssssss.  Meanwhile its deadline punt after deadline punt.

Im not saying RA is years away. That he isnt already good. That he should be in AAA. What Im saying is that hes 21, his prime will start in 5 years. DOnt take the next 4 years off because then like whats the point of crochet, chapman.

Roman isnt good enough and neither is mayer and neither is campbell for me to think, we are going to be soooo good in 4-5 years, i really dont care what happens now.

Cuz crochet is better than all of them. combined.

Mike Trout's prime ended at 27. Believing that prime years don't happen until the mid 20's is outdated. 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Since people are misunderstanding what I meant when I said RA/Mayer/Campbell arent worth waiting around for is that I meant that for years I heard - the sox will be competitive when this group matures.  

And the shiny new toy is such a trap.  But its not like how JoeB says it, its the suspects.  This has always been how sports fans are.  This next group is going to be soooo good.  Yeah maybe, but are they better than the current group who will be washed by the time the next group arrives? Are they worth being borderline competitive for , and half-trying while you wait for them to develop? Theyd have to be reallllllly good to be worth that.

But thats how we did run our club. Under BLoom.  Wait till my prospects. my prospecttttttts (gollum voice). My preciousssssss.  Meanwhile its deadline punt after deadline punt.

Im not saying RA is years away. That he isnt already good. That he should be in AAA. What Im saying is that hes 21, his prime will start in 5 years. DOnt take the next 4 years off because then like whats the point of crochet, chapman.

Roman isnt good enough and neither is mayer and neither is campbell for me to think, we are going to be soooo good in 4-5 years, i really dont care what happens now.

Cuz crochet is better than all of them. combined.

I’ve been complaining about taking the last 3 years off especially at the trade deadline. Having a losing record, and last place in the division was unacceptable for the amount of times the Red Sox have been there championships, or not. I always have said you can’t always count on the future to turn out like you think, and want it too. Teel is gone, but you can’t count on Roman, Mayer, and KC all turning out to be stars let alone Superstars.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Mike Trout's prime ended at 27. Believing that prime years don't happen until the mid 20's is outdated. 

Sure.  But for years we heard: wait until the next group arrives. Thennnnn I'll see. I heard it from Bloom. I heard it from my friends.  When the young group of prospects fully mature- thats when we'll be true competitors.

And certainly there have been teams, where you look at who you got right now, and you look at who you got coming down the pipeline and you think - the next group is better than the current group - and so im not going to go sign that free-agent (yet) because I dont want him washed and a budget drain when that next (better) core arrives. Im going to wait to line up that pricey acquisition with my next group.  So we'll get "bridge" free agents. Band-aids. We'll be okay, but we arent actually trying to win WS right now. We are just trying to bridge. ANd sometimes you look at your roster and it makes sense to think like this. We should be planning for 2028.

My point is that plan got wreckt. It was the plan. Its no longer that plan. Cuz Crochet came and changed the plan.  And now, the future is here. And its time to focus on the present.  RA is a big part of that.

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’ve been complaining about taking the last 3 years off especially at the trade deadline. Having a losing record, and last place in the division was unacceptable for the amount of times the Red Sox have been there championships, or not. I always have said you can’t always count on the future to turn out like you think, and want it too. Teel is gone, but you can’t count on Roman, Mayer, and KC all turning out to be stars let alone Superstars.

And if they turn into stars at age 26, you cant count on crochet to still be a star at that point.

[drewski6]

Crochet and Chapman are the carriers of the team. RA may be the best position player on the team. But a leadoff hitter, a table setter, needs people behind him. He cannot carry a team like a middle of the order bat or an ace can.  

[drewski6]

Im sorry , but I honestly dont see how anyone could even argue against Crochet being the most important red sox in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028.

No jinx but RA gets hurt in spring and its going to be hard to overcome, Crochet gets hurt and we're fast forwarding through the season.

[Old Red]

Just now, drewski6 said:

Crochet and Chapman are the carriers of the team. RA may be the best position player on the team. But a leadoff hitter, a table setter, needs people behind him. He cannot carry a team like a middle of the order bat or an ace can.  

Chapman had a career year last year. I’m not counting on him to be the same next year.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Im sorry , but I honestly dont see how anyone could even argue against Crochet being the most important red sox in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028.

No jinx but RA gets hurt in spring and its going to be hard to overcome, Crochet gets hurt and we're fast forwarding through the season.

With any stater you just worry about getting through the year they’re in without going on the IL.

[drewski6]

Just now, Old Red said:

Chapman had a career year last year. I’m not counting on him to be the same next year.

I agree. I meant the carriers of 2025, and really chapman wasnt even really close to carrying the weight that crochet did last year.

The question is not: is there any red sox more important to the team than crochet.

The question is : is there any player in the mlb who is more important to their team than crochet is to the red sox? And I would argue no.  Even Ohtani, its not like the dodgers miss the playoffs without him. THey are still really good. Can you imagine the 2025 red sox if crochet went down in spring? What would we even look like?

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Sure.  But for years we heard: wait until the next group arrives. Thennnnn I'll see. I heard it from Bloom. I heard it from my friends.  When the young group of prospects fully mature- thats when we'll be true competitors.

And certainly there have been teams, where you look at who you got right now, and you look at who you got coming down the pipeline and you think - the next group is better than the current group - and so im not going to go sign that free-agent (yet) because I dont want him washed and a budget drain when that next (better) core arrives. Im going to wait to line up that pricey acquisition with my next group.  So we'll get "bridge" free agents. Band-aids. We'll be okay, but we arent actually trying to win WS right now. We are just trying to bridge. ANd sometimes you look at your roster and it makes sense to think like this. We should be planning for 2028.

My point is that plan got wreckt. It was the plan. Its no longer that plan. Cuz Crochet came and changed the plan.  And now, the future is here. And its time to focus on the present.  RA is a big part of that.

How is the plan wrecked? Anthony is here and he's great! He's as good as advertised. 

The idea of a "Big Three" came straight from the FO. It wasn't simply message board fodder. The Red Sox put their hopes in these guys. It's what they were waiting on. Was it the safest strategy? No. Should they have tried to compete from '20 - '24 while the kids were still in MilB? Of course. 

I'm going to enjoy watching Anthony for the next several years. I hope the Sox stay competitive and that Henry doesn't keep them under the CBT more often than not. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The question is : is there any player in the mlb who is more important to their team than crochet is to the red sox? 

Roman Anthony

Red Sox 2025 record

With Roman Anthony: 46-27

Without Roman Anthony: 43-46

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure a single poster feels this winter has no urgency. We may see the extent of it at various levels,  

I think most of us feel at minimum we need a big bat (RHB) and a solid SP'er, plus some depth signings.

Some of us, myself included, feel we need 2 big bats and more than just a solid SP'er. I'm pulling for a #1/2 type, like maybe Ryan, Greene, Lodolo types.

A few of us might want even more, but with JH's budget limits likely and maybe one big trade as asking for a lot, I think the limit is adding 2-3 high quality players. 

I won't be surprised if it's just 1 plus some decent secondary players. Hell, zero won't surprise me, with JH forcing Brez to add 3-5 good but not great players.

We can argue all day about Anthony, Abreu, Duran, Story, Casas and others, but the fact is we simply have to count on them as starters (including Rafaela & Narvaez.) We aren't replacing more than 1-2 current players and also replacing Bregman, Lowe, Refsnyder, Gio, Buehler and Wilson.

Right now, Anthony is our best bet at being a major offensive boost. We can hope Story, Abreu and others stay about even. Maybe Abreu plays more and hits 30+ dingers. We can hope Casas returns to .800+ batting. We can hope Mayer, Campbell or others make a big jump, but I'm with Drew on the need to add two big bats. At minimum, one could be at the Bregman/Bichette/Hoskins/Naylor level, but that might not even be enough. The other(s) need to be at the Alonso, Suarez, Schwarber, K Marte level.

Then, we need a solid and dependable SP'er- no more Buehlers, Sandovals and Klubers.

Does anyone here think just running back the same team makes us a top 4-5 contender?

(Assuming Bregman, Story, Ref, Matz and Gio return.)

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

How is the plan wrecked? Anthony is here and he's great! He's as good as advertised. 

The idea of a "Big Three" came straight from the FO. It wasn't simply message board fodder. The Red Sox put their hopes in these guys. It's what they were waiting on. Was it the safest strategy? No. Should they have tried to compete from '20 - '24 while the kids were still in MilB? Of course. 

I'm going to enjoy watching Anthony for the next several years. I hope the Sox stay competitive and that Henry doesn't keep them under the CBT more often than not. 

Blooms plan of wait for my big 4 of prospects to fully arrive and carry this team got wrecked. Because Crochet made us competitive faster than we had planned.

Similarly, the patriots are having to rethink their slow build through the draft plan.

Sometimes your window arrives before you thought it would.

Im not saying that bloom was wrong to be thinking about 2027 in 2023. Or that the plan was flawed when it was implemented.

What Im saying is that its time to switch gears to full throttle.  And thats a lot because of RA, but its because of Crochet more.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Roman Anthony

Red Sox 2025 record

With Roman Anthony: 46-27

Without Roman Anthony: 43-46

Sure. But think about next year without crochet. Bello is your ace? ANd who exactly is behind him?

Now think about next year without Anthony. You have DUran, Abreu, Story. Its a huge loss.  But you still have a good leadoff hitter. It doesnt feel as f'd. We still beat the yankees when the ball was in crochets hand in the playoffs.

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Roman Anthony

Red Sox 2025 record

With Roman Anthony: 46-27

Without Roman Anthony: 43-46

I dont even believe that you believe there is anybody close to crochet in terms of overall importance to team. In all of baseball.

Maybe Cal Raleigh?

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Roman Anthony

Red Sox 2025 record

With Roman Anthony: 46-27

Without Roman Anthony: 43-46

Between Anthony and Crochet (23-9 in his starts,) this team would be out of the conversation for 2026. We need both. We also need Chapman to come close to his 2025 numbers and a couple or more pre-prime players to kick it up a notch.

I'm fine with Drew's feelings on not planning on 22-26 year olds improving, but the fact is, even with 2 big bat additions and a solid SP'er, we will probably need a few to make jumps, anyway.

These young players that Sox are counting on are not Henry Owens, Bobby Dalbec, Ryan Lavarnway and Jay Groome. These are guys recognized at the national level plus some who have already shown they can produce at the ML level, at least in some key areas.

Anthony is just 21. If he never gives us more than .860, he'd still be a major plus. Why shouldn't we expect even better?

Mayer and Garcia are just 22 and largely unproven, but both make the national rankings. Campbell is 23 and showed some serious limitations in '25, but this kid has some real promise left in him. Rafaela is 24 and Casas 25.  That's 6 guys at 25 and younger, and we don't need but 3-4 of them to get better. We don't need all 6.

Then, we have another 3-4 players entering or in their peak prime years: Abreu, Duran, Narvaez and Romy.

Our post prime players are not way past prime: Story 32, Yoshida 31 and Wong 29. Only Story is viewed as a FT'er, anyway. So, we have Story plus 3-4 youngsters and 3-4 prime players making it about 7-9. Add two high quality big bats, and we have a nice 9 with a solid bench.

 

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I dont even believe that you believe there is anybody close to crochet in terms of overall importance to team. In all of baseball.

Maybe Cal Raleigh?

I agree, but just because Crochet is so great, it doesn't mean Anthony gets any worse.

Of course, some of RA's value is based on speculation, but just about everyone agrees he's the real deal. 300 PAs may have been deceptive, but if people can write off Campbell on even less PAs, then why not think Anthony can top .860 in 2026?

I'm not just saying this because we need him to do so, and I am not a homer on every Sox player's 2026 outlook. (See my Duran is in decline point I've since retracted.) Every team in MLB would have Anthony high on their list of 2026 projections.

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Sure. But think about next year without crochet. Bello is your ace? ANd who exactly is behind him?

Now think about next year without Anthony. You have DUran, Abreu, Story. Its a huge loss.  But you still have a good leadoff hitter. It doesnt feel as f'd. We still beat the yankees when the ball was in crochets hand in the playoffs.

They were a below .500 team without Roman Anthony in the lineup. I don't know what to tell you. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Between Anthony and Crochet (23-9 in his starts,) this team would be out of the conversation for 2026. We need both. We also need Chapman to come close to his 2025 numbers and a couple or more pre-prime players to kick it up a notch.

I'm fine with Drew's feelings on not planning on 22-26 year olds improving, but the fact is, even with 2 big bat additions and a solid SP'er, we will probably need a few to make jumps, anyway.

These young players that Sox are counting on are not Henry Owens, Bobby Dalbec, Ryan Lavarnway and Jay Groome. These are guys recognized at the national level plus some who have already shown they can produce at the ML level, at least in some key areas.

Anthony is just 21. If he never gives us more than .860, he'd still be a major plus. Why shouldn't we expect even better?

Mayer and Garcia are just 22 and largely unproven, but both make the national rankings. Campbell is 23 and showed some serious limitations in '25, but this kid has some real promise left in him. Rafaela is 24 and Casas 25.  That's 6 guys at 25 and younger, and we don't need but 3-4 of them to get better. We don't need all 6.

Then, we have another 3-4 players entering or in their peak prime years: Abreu, Duran, Narvaez and Romy.

Our post prime players are not way past prime: Story 32, Yoshida 31 and Wong 29. Only Story is viewed as a FT'er, anyway. So, we have Story plus 3-4 youngsters and 3-4 prime players making it about 7-9. Add two high quality big bats, and we have a nice 9 with a solid bench.

 

Crochet with Anthony: 11 - 3, .786%

Crochet without Anthony: 12 - 6, .667%