9/10 vs Orioles

[Jasonbay44]

Does it even matter at this point? At least we can watch NFL football this week. Go Steelers

[redsoxrules]

James Paxton on the DL.

Too bad they didn't unload him at the trading deadline. Probably could have gotten a decent return at the time.

[moonslav59]

James Paxton on the DL.

Too bad they didn't unload him at the trading deadline. Probably could have gotten a decent return at the time.

 

...and a couple others, but this time, I don't blame them for thinking we had a chance.

 

(Wrong again!)

[Bellhorn04]

...and a couple others, but this time, I don't blame them for thinking we had a chance.

 

(Wrong again!)

 

Bloom has been wrong a bunch the last two years.

[vegasbob]

Bloom has been wrong a bunch the last two years.

 

Bloom cannot keep shopping at the margins for starting pitching. Former stars, rehab specialists, tired arms cannot pitch for 6 months without showing the wear and tear. Mondesi is an example of going for a guy rehabbing a an ACL who never recovered. Forget the money, he could not fill a key playing position. Story burned up about a years worth trying to play, then having a procedure on an elbow that was damaged.

 

Chaim, go to the meat counter and ask for U.S. Prime , not 80/20 hamburger.

[Jasonbay44]

...and a couple others, but this time, I don't blame them for thinking we had a chance.

 

(Wrong again!)

If he thought we had a chance, he should’ve bought and not ran bullpen games twice every 5 games.. if he didn’t think we had a chance he should’ve unloaded people.

 

He did neither. Pure negligence

[moonslav59]

If he thought we had a chance, he should’ve bought and not ran bullpen games twice every 5 games.. if he didn’t think we had a chance he should’ve unloaded people.

 

He did neither. Pure negligence

 

100%

 

I was begging we add 2 SP'er.

[Maxbialystock]

...and a couple others, but this time, I don't blame them for thinking we had a chance.

 

(Wrong again!)

 

Not wrong. As has been discussed many times, the return of Sale, Houck, and Whitlock combined with Bello, Paxton, Pivetta, Crawford, Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Bernardino, Winckowski, and Murphy should have been enough pitching.

 

Same goes for the bats of Devers, Dugo, Turner, Yoshida, Casas, Duran, Wong, Duvall, Ref, Story, Reyes, and even McGuire.

 

I think the 48 games--starting 4 August) with just 3 days off affected the pitching more than I/we expected. It could also have affected the hitting, but I doubt it.

 

Surprisingly, the arrival of Story improved the defense at a key spot, SS, but didn't seem to help much because the pitching was awful. When Houck got beat up in the 6th inning in his last game, everyone seemed to say, "see, he's awful the third time through the lineup." My rebuttal is, "at least he got to the 6th inning because right now Sale, Paxton Pivetta, and Crawford can't."

Edited September 10, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

Bloom has been wrong a bunch the last two years.

 

I thought we should have had a fire sale, last deadline. I agree: big mistake.

 

I thought we should have been buyers, this deadline. I doubt it would have helped. I think I was wrong, this year and right, last year- in hindsight.

[moonslav59]

Not wrong. As has been discussed many time, the return of Sale, Houck, and Whitlock combined with Bello, Paxton, Pivetta, Crawford, Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Bernardino, Winckowski, and Murphy should have been enough pitching.

 

Same goes for the bats of Devers, Dugo, Turner, Yoshida, Casas, Duran, Wong, Duvall, Ref, Story, Reyes, and even McGuire.

 

I think the 48 games--starting 4 August) with just 3 days off affected the pitching more than I/we expected. It could also have affected the hitting, but I doubt it.

 

Surprisingly, the arrival of Story improved the defense at a key spot, SS, but didn't seem to help much because the pitching was awful. When Houck got beat up in the 6th inning in his last game, everyone seemed to say, "see, he's awful the third time through the lineup." My rebuttal is, "at least he got to the 6th inning because right now Sale, Paxton Pivetta, and Crawford can't."

 

Wrong, in hindsight. Most of the SP'ers traded for at the deadline have not done what we would have needed to put us in the race, let alone into a WC driver's seat.

 

Yes, at the time, I do think we should have been buyers.

 

Adding Civale would have been a good move for this year and next.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought we should have had a fire sale, last deadline. I agree: big mistake.

 

I thought we should have been buyers, this deadline. I doubt it would have helped. I think I was wrong, this year and right, last year- in hindsight.

 

I'm an agnostic on the deadline stuff. My criticisms are about his offseason work.

[dgalehouse]

The Orioles have been hurt by losing their closer, Bautista. That could wind up being their downfall in the playoffs.

[moonslav59]

I'm an agnostic on the deadline stuff. My criticisms are about his offseason work.

 

I hear you.

 

Winter major moves:

 

Kluber- stinker

Yoshida- not so good, so far

Jansen- Bingo

Martin- Major bingo!

Turner- Bingo

Duvall- pretty good, despite the injury

 

Minor moves:

Good: Reyes, Beranrdino

Meh: Chang, Tapia

Bad: Mondesi and the revolving door of about 10 guys at the 7-8 RP'er slots.

 

The winter before 2022:

Story- stinker for 2022 and 2023

JBJ- stinker

Wacha- good

RHill- good

Strahm- good

Schreiber- good

Diekman- bad (see McGuire)

 

Minor moves:

Good: Refsnyder, McGuire, Abreu + EValdez

Meh: Pham

Bad: Robles, Davis

[jad]

Bloom cannot keep shopping at the margins for starting pitching. Former stars, rehab specialists, tired arms cannot pitch for 6 months without showing the wear and tear. Mondesi is an example of going for a guy rehabbing a an ACL who never recovered. Forget the money, he could not fill a key playing position. Story burned up about a years worth trying to play, then having a procedure on an elbow that was damaged.

 

Chaim, go to the meat counter and ask for U.S. Prime , not 80/20 hamburger.

 

Sure he can! He cut salary, got cheap players (Verdugo/Story) for expensive ones (Betts/Bogaerts), put an entertaining product on the field (who doesn't love a game with two dozen runs?), and even got the team over .500. His boss made tons of money. What's the problem?

[Bellhorn04]

I hear you.

 

Winter major moves:

 

Kluber- stinker

Yoshida- not so good, so far

Jansen- Bingo

Martin- Major bingo!

Turner- Bingo

Duvall- pretty good, despite the injury

 

Minor moves:

Good: Reyes, Beranrdino

Meh: Chang, Tapia

Bad: Mondesi and the revolving door of about 10 guys at the 7-8 RP'er slots.

 

The winter before 2022:

Story- stinker for 2022 and 2023

JBJ- stinker

Wacha- good

RHill- good

Strahm- good

Schreiber- good

Diekman- bad (see McGuire)

 

Minor moves:

Good: Refsnyder, McGuire, Abreu + EValdez

Meh: Pham

Bad: Robles, Davis

 

He's had some short-term/minor bingos. We need some long-term/major ones.

[moonslav59]

He's had some short-term/minor bingos. We need some long-term/major ones.

 

His few long term deals, so far, don't look great.

 

I'm not sure upper brass would have allowed more, so I'm not sure we can blame Bloom for so many 1 and 2 year deals, as we rebuilt.

 

I'm hoping we see 3-4 major signings, this winter, Anything less, to me, would be punting to 2025, and would not go over well.

[jung]

Wrong, in hindsight. Most of the SP'ers traded for at the deadline have not done what we would have needed to put us in the race, let alone into a WC driver's seat.

 

Yes, at the time, I do think we should have been buyers.

 

Adding Civale would have been a good move for this year and next.

 

Myself, never thought we should be buyers because this is what we were right from the start ....A BAD TEAM. at the least a very poorly constructed team

- Too many guys especially pitchers coming off the DL and that never goes well when you have so many. Rotation has been awful

- I cannot even judge the BP because those guys are gassed and pitching too many innings. No teams have studs pitching the in the 4th, 5th and 6th innings because those should be rare occasions. Staffs are not that deep. Your most questionable pitchers are going to pitch those innings and if you have to toss them out there too often you are toast.

- Too many players were going to be playing out of position as this whole s*** show across baseball of playing everybody everywhere was going to blow up on its most ardent proponents. Count us as one. The end of the shift was going to expose this nonsense for what it was ....NONSENSE.

- Too much offense dependent on too few guys and a defense from hell

Edited September 10, 2023 by jung

[moonslav59]

Sure he can! He cut salary, got cheap players (Verdugo/Story) for expensive ones (Betts/Bogaerts), put an entertaining product on the field (who doesn't love a game with two dozen runs?), and even got the team over .500. His boss made tons of money. What's the problem?

 

No problem for JH, unless and until, the product on the field leads to major losses in profits.

[moonslav59]

Myself, never thought we should be buyers because this is what we were right from the start ....A BAD TEAM.

- Too many guys especially pitchers coming off the DL and that never goes well when you have so many. Rotation has been awful

- I cannot even judge the BP because those guys are gassed and pitching too many innings. No teams have studs pitching the 5th and 6th innings because those should be rare occasions. Staffs are not that deep. Your most questionable pitchers are going to pitch those innings and if you have to toss them out there too often you are toast.

- Too many players were going to be playing out of position as this whole s*** show across baseball of playing everybody everywhere was going to blow up on its most ardent proponents. Count us as one. The end of the shift was going to expose this nonsense for what it was ....NONSENSE.

- Too much offense dependent on too few guys and a defense from hell

 

I can't disagree with anything, except the shift rule change. Do we now need to put an asterisk next to Ted Williams, as he was hurt by the shift and newer guys cannot be?

[jung]

I can't disagree with anything, except the shift rule change. Do we now need to put an asterisk next to Ted Williams, as he was hurt by the shift and newer guys cannot be?

 

The shift protected lousy fielders. They didn't have to move to the baseball. Hence it became easy to rationalize playing players out of position.

 

The shift was deigned so that they would be where the ball was going to land. That also means they did not have to be fleet footed and nimble. It is also much easier to throw the ball if you did not have to run to catch it in the first place. That also allowed teams to bring up players that could hit but really could not field worth a crap. There are so many players right now that do not even exhibit basic fielding skills and are constantly caught chewing on their gloves......out of position and unable to even make a play that should have been made.

 

Under the circumstances, the Mookie Betts sort of player should be more prized even than he is.

Edited September 10, 2023 by jung

[vegasbob]

Amazing how many 3-2 counts Casas can get into. He does work pitchers. With Abreu's plate discipline, is a hitting coach at WooSox making some dent in the swing away strategy of imports like Story and Duvall ?

[vegasbob]

The lug nuts are coming loose, watch out for wheels to come off shortly

 

Bello at 46 pitches running a pace for 4, maybe 5 innings. Keeping the 2023 starting pitching trend alive.

 

Paxton on IL? That's pretty much a season at this point. Why would you bother bringing him back at all this year?

Edited September 10, 2023 by vegasbob

[jung]

And Verdugo is one of our better fielders. Where was he going? The booth beside itself over the scoring. Who cares....play should have been made on the ball.

[Maxbialystock]

The shift protected lousy fielders. They didn't have to move to the baseball. Hence it became easy to rationalize playing players out of position.

 

The shift was deigned so that they would be where the ball was going to land. That also means they did not have to be fleet footed and nimble. It is also much easier to throw the ball if you did not have to run to catch it in the first place. That also allowed teams to bring up players that could hit but really could not field worth a crap. There are so many players right now that do not even exhibit basic fielding skills and are constantly caught chewing on their gloves......out of position and unable to even make a play that should have been made.

 

Under the circumstances, the Mookie Betts sort of player should be more prized even than he is.

 

Mookie Betts is primarily an outfielder, none of whom have been affected by ending the infield shifts.

[jung]

Except that "playing out of position" disease affects all of the fielding positions. Playing out of position was never as popular as it became during the shift era.

 

For example it became popular to think about Ofer's as just that Ofer's. Stick them anywhere out there. That could not be farther from the truth.

Edited September 10, 2023 by jung

[vegasbob]

Turner scores from first on a routine groundball that Urias's brother should have fielded but now finally have a 3-2 game. BTW, Story hit the ball which opens up these kind of possibilities.

[vegasbob]

Rafi starting to chase Turner for the RBI lead comes through with a hit

[vegasbob]

Give Devers credit for a quick rebound off Abreu in left field and a great throw to 2nd to nail the runner.

[Maxbialystock]

Rafi starting to chase Turner for the RBI lead comes through with a hit

 

Meh. The real story is that McGuire and Urias got the first real hits for the Sox in this game and that Rafaela struck freaking out with a man on 3b.

[Maxbialystock]

I could be wrong, but I think most of the Orioles hits have come off Bello's fast ball.

 

That double, however, was off the changeup.