Would you root for Trevor Bauer?

[Bellhorn04]

But they are both 'great values' to your fantasy team or your real one, no? As are players like Pham. Much better 'value' than, say, Vaz or Benintendi or Betts.

 

There are probably more players than we like to think who have done things many might consider immoral...

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, as the bible says.

[Jasonbay44]

As much as I’ve criticized Bloom: I don’t think his thought process for acquiring Pham and Mcguire was “hey, this guy got into a fight over fantasy football, his value must be low” and “this guy jerked off in public, I bet I can snag him cheap”.

[Bellhorn04]

As much as I’ve criticized Bloom: I don’t think his thought process for acquiring Pham and Mcguire was “hey, this guy got into a fight over fantasy football, his value must be low” and “this guy jerked off in public, I bet I can snag him cheap”.

 

Yes, I rather doubt that too.

[notin]

As much as I’ve criticized Bloom: I don’t think his thought process for acquiring Pham and Mcguire was “hey, this guy got into a fight over fantasy football, his value must be low” and “this guy jerked off in public, I bet I can snag him cheap”.

 

Not to mention, the Sox haven’t acquired Bauer. Or even expressed passing interest. Although you’d never guess that from this thread…

[jad]

This comparison makes no sense. I don’t want to defend McGuire but it was a victimless crime and he’s not even that good. He’s been a backup catcher his whole career and him masturbating didn’t hinder or advance his career.

 

Trevor Bauers situation completely hindered his career. He beat and raped an unconscious women and received multiple years of suspension and what he did is so heinous that dodgers are willing to eat his contract to have him play for another team (if he plays again).

 

Well of course from a legal and moral point of view I agree. And I doubt anyone will sign TB (right away). As you note, if owners will pay people like Deshaun Watson, why shouldn't they sign Bauer?

 

But explain to me why, if McQ is so bad (which he is), and Pham is disposable, why you would get rid of a popular and productive player like Vaz and acquire guys like this. If your (meaning Bloom's, not you) concern is with the morale of the clubhouse, how do acquisitions like this make any sense?

[Jasonbay44]

Well of course from a legal and moral point of view I agree. And I doubt anyone will sign TB (right away). As you note, if owners will pay people like Deshaun Watson, why shouldn't they sign Bauer?

 

But explain to me why, if McQ is so bad (which he is), and Pham is disposable, why you would get rid of a popular and productive player like Vaz and acquire guys like this. If your (meaning Bloom's, not you) concern is with the morale of the clubhouse, how do acquisitions like this make any sense?

Sure, in pro sports guys get second and third chances they really shouldn’t, Deshaun Watson is the perfect example. He got traded for three first round picks and received most guaranteed money in NFL history. It was also done by a franchise known to be moronic in the Cleveland Browns, by an owner considered a scum bag. That doesn’t mean Bauer deserves a second chance even though it won’t surprise me if he gets one unfortunately. However, I don’t want that chance to be in Boston.

 

I also don’t think the acquisition of Pham had ANYTHING to do with Betts. Betts was traded almost three years ago now, and Pham was acquired to be a platoon outfielder last trade deadline. Those two things aren’t linked

 

Mcguire trade was more about getting rid of Diekman than it was getting Mcguire. Mcguire is a backup catcher, that’s it.

 

I don’t think these guys off the field issues have anything to do with why Bloom acquired them. He wasn’t actively scouting people with off the field issues and trying to get them cheap.. and If he was why would his targets be platoon outfielders and a backup catcher?

[jad]

Sure, in pro sports guys get second and third chances they really shouldn’t, Deshaun Watson is the perfect example. He got traded for three first round picks and received most guaranteed money in NFL history. It was also done by a franchise known to be moronic in the Cleveland Browns, by an owner considered a scum bag. That doesn’t mean Bauer deserves a second chance even though it won’t surprise me if he gets one unfortunately. However, I don’t want that chance to be in Boston.

 

I also don’t think the acquisition of Pham had ANYTHING to do with Betts. Betts was traded almost three years ago now, and Pham was acquired to be a platoon outfielder last trade deadline. Those two things aren’t linked

 

Mcguire trade was more about getting rid of Diekman than it was getting Mcguire. Mcguire is a backup catcher, that’s it.

 

I don’t think these guys off the field issues have anything to do with why Bloom acquired them. He wasn’t actively scouting people with off the field issues and trying to get them cheap.. and If he was why would his targets be platoon outfielders and a backup catcher ?

 

Got me. Wasn't there anyone in the room who said, Hey, Chaim, are you SURE you want to sign inconsequential guys with baggage like that? What's the point?

 

As for Bauer, I agree: I will bet any amount of money that he will be signed somewhere. The only hindrance will be his own ego and lack of self-awareness, which will likely prevent him from taking, say, a minimum deal.

[Jasonbay44]

Got me. Wasn't there anyone in the room who said, Hey, Chaim, are you SURE you want to sign inconsequential guys with baggage like that? What's the point?

 

As for Bauer, I agree: I will bet any amount of money that he will be signed somewhere. The only hindrance will be his own ego and lack of self-awareness, which will likely prevent him from taking, say, a minimum deal.

In Phams case, it’s not nearly as bad as the two other things being discussed. It was a fantasy football argument that escalated. It is what it is. That is a case of getting a second chance that I think is deserved.

 

In McGuires case, I think it was done to get rid of Diekmans contract, and again, neither of these things are comparable to Bauer.

 

Signing Bauer after what he did and with the Dodgers agreeing to pay him 20+ million to go away, says a lot. It shouldn’t be done and I doubt Red Sox do it.

[notin]

Well of course from a legal and moral point of view I agree. And I doubt anyone will sign TB (right away). As you note, if owners will pay people like Deshaun Watson, why shouldn't they sign Bauer?

 

But explain to me why, if McQ is so bad (which he is), and Pham is disposable, why you would get rid of a popular and productive player like Vaz and acquire guys like this. If your (meaning Bloom's, not you) concern is with the morale of the clubhouse, how do acquisitions like this make any sense?

 

I think you’re trying to connect a bunch of transactions that are not linked at all and absolutely not for the criteria you mention. Betts wasn’t traded to bring in Pham at a reduced value. Vazquez want traded to accommodate McGuire…

[notin]

Got me. Wasn't there anyone in the room who said, Hey, Chaim, are you SURE you want to sign inconsequential guys with baggage like that? What's the point?

 

To play baseball.

 

In Pham’s case, it was a matter between him and Joc Pederson. And maybe Mike Trout. That it’s ever been mentioned again is just giving it much more attention than it deserves…

[Jasonbay44]

To play baseball.

 

In Pham’s case, it was a matter between him and Joc Pederson. And maybe Mike Trout. That it’s ever been mentioned again is just giving it much more attention than it deserves…

 

Exactly. Pham and Bauer aren’t even comparable “issues”.

[notin]

Exactly. Pham and Bauer aren’t even comparable “issues”.

 

Now when Bloom signs Addison Russell and Felipe Vasquez, we can make comps to Bauer…

[jad]

Of course getting rid of Betts and Bogaerts and Vaz and Beni (and who am I forgetting?) isn't directly related to signing nobodies like Ph and McQ ( I am actually much more concerned about the public assault in Ph's case than the laughable and embarrassing but harmless crap McQ did. I admit from a PR standpoint, many fans, and likely players as well, probably feel the reverse).

 

What I am asking is why you would sign guys like this in the first place. Someone must have felt their value outweighs their cost (i.e., weighing these things the way one might for a fantasy league, rather than an organization with real human beings in it). JB's point above is a good one: there are some people you just don't want to be sharing an office with, no matter how much value they bring to your organization; I doubt this was much of a concern when one day last year we were rooting for a long-time player like Vaz and the next day were given his replacement.

[notin]

Of course getting rid of Betts and Bogaerts and Vaz and Beni (and who am I forgetting?) isn't directly related to signing nobodies like Ph and McQ ( I am actually much more concerned about the public assault in Ph's case than the laughable and embarrassing but harmless crap McQ did. I admit from a PR standpoint, many fans, and likely players as well, probably feel the reverse).

 

What I am asking is why you would sign guys like this in the first place. Someone must have felt their value outweighs their cost (i.e., weighing these things the way one might for a fantasy league, rather than an organization with real human beings in it). JB's point above is a good one: there are some people you just don't want to be sharing an office with, no matter how much value they bring to your organization; I doubt this was much of a concern when one day last year we were rooting for a long-time player like Vaz and the next day were given his replacement.

 

Vazquez had 2 months left with Boston. And I don’t think the front office figured him to be as good as his contract demands, or at the very least did not value some aspect of his game. They tried to acquire Jacob Stallings before the season, after all…

[notin]

Of course getting rid of Betts and Bogaerts and Vaz and Beni (and who am I forgetting?) isn't directly related to signing nobodies like Ph and McQ ( I am actually much more concerned about the public assault in Ph's case than the laughable and embarrassing but harmless crap McQ did. I admit from a PR standpoint, many fans, and likely players as well, probably feel the reverse).

 

I normally don’t like dealing for players, since they’re all different. But I bet one thing they might all agree on is not having all of their transgressions placed under a microscope. Sure players like Bauer and Russell and F. Vasquez do deserve it, but the whole Pham thing has gotten more mentions on this thread than it should have on the entire internet.

 

What I am asking is why you would sign guys like this in the first place. Someone must have felt their value outweighs their cost (i.e., weighing these things the way one might for a fantasy league, rather than an organization with real human beings in it). JB's point above is a good one: there are some people you just don't want to be sharing an office with, no matter how much value they bring to your organization; I doubt this was much of a concern when one day last year we were rooting for a long-time player like Vaz and the next day were given his replacement.

 

At the end of the day, do you want a team of baseball players or alter boys? Because there’s probably a lot less overlap than you think. A lot less.

 

You’re criticizing management for evaluating players using values and money instead of like human beings, but following up with treating any and all public issues as equally reprehensible. If you want players judged as humans, than admit humans make mistakes and these can be forgiven and forgotten.

 

This is more about players like Pham and McGuire. Bauer, Russell and F Vasquez deserve what they get…

[Jasonbay44]

Felipe Vazquez is an absolutely disgusting individual. I hope he rots in prison.

[Jasonbay44]

In the cases of guys like the aforementioned Vazquez, Russell and Roberto Osuna, a lot of times teams do make the right decision and not give these guys another chance. Hopefully the same happens with Bauer

[notin]

In the cases of guys like the aforementioned Vazquez, Russell and Roberto Osuna, a lot of times teams do make the right decision and not give these guys another chance. Hopefully the same happens with Bauer

 

Once you get down to the level of allegations against Osuna, second chances are rife. Brett Myers is a prime example. And Marcell Ozuna is still an active player as we type…

[Jasonbay44]

Once you get down to the level of allegations against Osuna, second chances are rife. Brett Myers is a prime example. And Marcell Ozuna is still an active player as we type…

 

I have no idea how Ozuna keeps getting more chances…

[notin]

I have no idea how Ozuna keeps getting more chances…

 

Because he has a skill many are willing to pay for.

 

In that respect, so does Bauer. The Dodgers were able to let him walk because they have plenty of others with similar skillsets. But lots of teams don’t. I picked the Mets earlier on this thread, mostly because they’ve exhibited a “win at any cost” attitude all off-season, but it was very unfair of me to do so, because I don’t know that they prioritize winning over supporting players like Bauer.

 

But I do think some team will give him a chance. Would Boston? No idea. They are certainly in a position to need his skills, but I don’t know how they feel about him, given the PR nightmare he could be. But I also don’t think picking up players like Pham and McGuire suggests they are willing to ignore any and all off field issues…

Edited January 8, 2023 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's good that some posters believe in second-chances, even for pro athletes who hurt other people.

 

Even a convicted dog-killer gets to play quarterback again. For a guy like that, I can only hope for a second chance with his victims and that he gets to spend the after-life in a fenced-in kennel with the spirits of man's best friends.

[notin]

It's good that some posters believe in second-chances, even for pro athletes who hurt other people.

 

Even a convicted dog-killer gets to play quarterback again. For a guy like that, I can only hope for a second chance with his victims and that he gets to spend the after-life in a fenced-in kennel with the spirits of man's best friends.

 

There’s a big difference in believing some players deserve second chances and believing they will get second chances…

[moonslav59]

There’s a big difference in believing some players deserve second chances and believing they will get second chances…

 

I certainly don't know if he "deserves" a second chance. It would depend on quite a few factors, in which I have no idea are present.

 

Someone will give him a chance, deserving or not.

[jacksonianmarch]

Better question is, if the Sox signed him, would you root for him? The answer is rhetorical, we all know you guys would. The same if he signed for the Yanks. Here’s the deal, this guy is a creep but he didn’t get charged and just completed his suspension. He’s an ace level pitcher who will get his shot with someone while making MLB minimum wage. Deshaun Watson just came back to the highest monetary guarantee in his sport after raping 20+ women. It’s gonna happen and we should all be prepared for it

[notin]

I certainly don't know if he "deserves" a second chance. It would depend on quite a few factors, in which I have no idea are present.

 

Someone will give him a chance, deserving or not.

 

I don’t think he deserves one. I do think he will get one…

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think he deserves one. I do think he will get one…

 

Why doesn't he deserve one? No criminal charges were filed.

[notin]

Why doesn't he deserve one? No criminal charges were filed.

 

While true, that’s very common in rape and sexual assault cases. And in the case of a singular allegation, there can certainly be doubt since it’s not uncommon for them to have sinister origins. But when multiple women come forward, that absolutely changes everything.

 

Just because there were no charges does not necessarily mean less in this case. Los Angeles is walking away from this guy for a reason, and they still owe him the balance on a $34mill AAV contract…

[Bellhorn04]

While true, that’s very common in rape and sexual assault cases. And in the case of a singular allegation, there can certainly be doubt since it’s not uncommon for them to have sinister origins. But when multiple women come forward, that absolutely changes everything.

 

Just because there were no charges does not necessarily mean less in this case. Los Angeles is walking away from this guy for a reason, and they still owe him the balance on a $34mill AAV contract…

 

The reason there were no charges is that there was insufficient evidence. The question was how much was consensual and how much wasn't. The woman who made the allegations pursued a second encounter after their first encounter. That really weakened her case.

 

As I've already said, I hope the Red Sox have nothing to do with him, because I think the guy has a whole package of issues and there may be more trouble yet to come.

[Jasonbay44]

I worked with a guy who pulled his dick out in front of a 16 year old girl, and sent texts literally trying to convince a teenage boy to rape a girl and when he wouldn’t do it, the guy asked for the address so he could “finish the job”.

 

He didn’t get arrested and the cops didn’t do anything.. This guy got another job, and just got arrested for sexually assaulting a girl at his new job. Some people don’t deserve second chances, even if “innocent” in the criminal justice system.

 

Aren’t Deshaun Watson, Aroldis Chapman, OJ Simpson and Miles Bridges “innocent”?

[Bellhorn04]

I worked with a guy who pulled his dick out in front of a 16 year old girl, and sent texts literally trying to convince a teenage boy to rape a girl and when he wouldn’t do it, the guy asked for the address so he could “finish the job”.

 

He didn’t get arrested and the cops didn’t do anything.. This guy got another job, and just got arrested for sexually assaulting a girl at his new job. Some people don’t deserve second chances, even if “innocent” in the criminal justice system.

 

Aren’t Deshaun Watson, Aroldis Chapman, OJ Simpson and Miles Bridges “innocent”?

 

I get what you're saying, I absolutely do, and in general I agree with you. There are so many cases of men getting away with crimes, and it's infuriating.

 

In Bauer's case, it was pretty extensively investigated, and he did have some significant consequences. The system did its job to the best of its ability, I think.