2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

Vaz is still the same guy as he was before the trade to Houston. Yes he was delegated to backup, and didn’t produce much at all, but back in Boston he would be the same guy as he was before he left, and would return to #1 catcher. What Boston has now are backups. I’m not saying Vaz is the best Catcher around, but I bet the staff would like to see him back.

 

I would bet against you on this.

 

They did better with his back-up, every year and overall.

 

He's getting older, too.

 

His bat was his best asset and even that was wildly inconsistent, but for a catcher, it was a clear plus- no doubt.

 

I think he was a net plus, overall, in his time with the Sox, but not by as much as others felt he was, and going forward, IMO, we are better off with Wong & McGuire than a 32 year old Vaz in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox pitchers had a 6.33 ERA and an .874 OPS against throwing to McGuire, BTW...

 

Those are not typos.

[moonslav59]

Does it show Vaz sucked? That's the question.

 

I don't know. It looks like he did with Garcia and Valdez, and to a lesser extent with Uquidy and Smith, but I think the sample sizes are too small to prove he did or didn't suck on D.

 

I do not think he gave HOU what they wanted or expected.

 

I think he did worse than McGuire, after the trade.

 

I doubt we even make him an offer, this winter, but they might make a one, just to say they appreciated him.

 

[moonslav59]

Red Sox pitchers had a 6.33 ERA and an .874 OPS against throwing to McGuire, BTW...

 

Those are not typos.

 

Like with Vaz, the sample sizes are too small and unbalanced to make any fair comps, but I will say those numbers are concerning.

 

Here are the pitchers he caught the most:

 

PAs Against/ OPS Against

 

186 Pivetta .840 (.754 w Wong in 58 PAs)

456 w Vaz .692

 

120 R Hill .800 (.582 w Wong in 43)

262 w Vaz .790

 

110 Crawford 1.034 (Wong 0 PAs w Crawford)

100 w Vaz .597

 

67 Bello .592 (.775 w Wong in 118)

83 w Vaz 1.027

 

67 Brasier .902 (11 PAs w Wong .182)

107 w Vaz .851

.

60 Schreiber .900 (18 PAs w Wong .516)

110 w Vaz .446

 

Clearly the edge goes to Vaz over the full season on almost all pitchers with 60+ PAs against.

Edited October 23, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

I would bet against you on this.

 

They did better with his back-up, every year and overall.

 

He's getting older, too.

 

His bat was his best asset and even that was wildly inconsistent, but for a catcher, it was a clear plus- no doubt.

 

I think he was a net plus, overall, in his time with the Sox, but not by as much as others felt he was, and going forward, IMO, we are better off with Wong & McGuire than a 32 year old Vaz in 2023.

We get it that you aren’t a Vaz guy just like you didn’t like Bogey, and his D either.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know. It looks like he did with Garcia and Valdez, and to a lesser extent with Uquidy and Smith, but I think the sample sizes are too small to prove he did or didn't suck on D.

 

I do not think he gave HOU what they wanted or expected.

 

I think he did worse than McGuire, after the trade.

 

I doubt we even make him an offer, this winter, but they might make a one, just to say they appreciated him.

 

 

Did you think Houston expected him to become their #1 catcher?

 

I don't. I think they wanted a capable, experienced backup for their title run.

 

He sure seemed to do an OK job yesterday! Caught a 3-hit shutout, threw out a runner and chipped in a 2-RBI single.

[notin]

Like with Vaz, the sample sizes are too small and unbalanced to make any fair comps, but I will say those numbers are concerning.

 

Thinking Willson Contreras as C/DH for 2023…

[moonslav59]

We get it that you aren’t a Vaz guy just like you didn’t like Bogey, and his D either.

 

More absolute lies.

 

I did not like either's D, but never wanted them benched.

 

I love Bogey but not his D. Stop lying.

 

Many times, I said I would not start Plawecki or Leon more than Vaz.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Did you think Houston expected him to become their #1 catcher?

 

I don't. I think they wanted a capable, experienced backup for their title run.

 

He sure seemed to do an OK job yesterday! Caught a 3-hit shutout, threw out a runner and chipped in a 2-RBI single.

 

I did not expect him to be their starting catcher, despite Maldy's .586 OPS since 2021, because I know HOU values defense and pitcher-catcher comfort/confidence or whatever you want to call it more than catcher offense.

 

I'll say it again, overall, Vaz has been a plus as a catcher. I'm glad the Sox had him. I think his plus O outweighed his faults b ehind the plate. I do not think he was as good as others felt, but that is not the same as saying he sucks or was a net negative. He wasn't.

 

Houston needed someone to spell Maldy, so he'd be more rested for the playoffs. The trade made total sense for them and us. I think, if Vaz had hit .750 for Hou, he might have played a little more, but not much more. They love Maldy, here, unlike how many fans viewed Leon and Plawecki, here.

[moonslav59]

Thinking Willson Contreras as C/DH for 2023…

 

I seriously doubt we spend big at catcher. I think Sox management likes McGuire/Wong/RHern more than they like Downs at SS, Ref in RF, Hosmer-Dalbec at DH, Winckowski as the 5th SP'er, and whoever we have in the pen after Houck, Whitlock & Schreiber.

 

It's just not a top 6 or 7 priority, and I doubt we spend enough to make it one. We may add a veteran catcher, known for defense and working with the staff, who can also tutor Wong and maybe ev en McGuire, a little bit- maybe even someone on a minor league deal or one of those minor league deals with an opt out if not on the Major League team by a certain date.

[moonslav59]

We get it that you aren’t a Vaz guy just like you didn’t like Bogey, and his D either.

 

I liked the Story signing and still do. I have said, many times, I'd offer Bogey more than Story ($150-160M/6), so how does this show I "dislike" Bogey?

 

You have bashed me over and over for saying you "hate Cora," despite me apologizing for saying that, yet it's fine for you to basically do the same thing.

 

I guarantee there will be no apology from you for your lie.

[Old Red]

I liked the Story signing and still do. I have said, many times, I'd offer Bogey more than Story ($150-160M/6), so how does this show I "dislike" Bogey?

 

You have bashed me over and over for saying you "hate Cora," despite me apologizing for saying that, yet it's fine for you to basically do the same thing.

 

I guarantee there will be no apology from you for your lie.

 

Flip flopping again. You said you didn’t like the Story signing in the beginning. Bogey’s intangibles alone are worth more than Story. Of course intangibles don’t show up on a analytics sheet.

[moonslav59]

Flip flopping again. You said you didn’t like the Story signing in the beginning. Bogey’s intangibles alone are worth more than Story. Of course intangibles don’t show up on a analytics sheet.

 

Wrong again, I said I was puzzled by signing him and not making him the SS- not knowing about the arm injury and him being okay playing 2B.

 

Also, I never said from day one. I just said I Liked it (past tense) and still do.

 

Where have I ever said I disliked Bogey? I'm owed an apology, but I know I will never get one.

 

It's not that hard to admit a mistake.

[notin]

Flip flopping again. You said you didn’t like the Story signing in the beginning. Bogey’s intangibles alone are worth more than Story. Of course intangibles don’t show up on a analytics sheet.

 

That’s the beauty of intangibles; you don’t have to know what you’re talking about. Just drop a buzzword!!

Edited October 23, 2022 by notin

[Old Red]

Wrong again, I said I was puzzled by signing him and not making him the SS- not knowing about the arm injury and him being okay playing 2B.

 

Also, I never said from day one. I just said I Liked it (past tense) and still do.

 

Where have I ever said I disliked Bogey? I'm owed an apology, but I know I will never get one.

 

It's not that hard to admit a mistake.

 

Once again over analyzing like you do best just like you did with saying I hated Cora. I specifically said you didn’t like Bogey, and his D meaning you didn’t like his D at SS, and in no way did I say you didn’t like Bogey. Of course with the way you over analyze things you see things that aren’t even there, so no apologies coming, and none warranted.

[Bellhorn04]

I did not expect him to be their starting catcher, despite Maldy's .586 OPS since 2021, because I know HOU values defense and pitcher-catcher comfort/confidence or whatever you want to call it more than catcher offense.

 

I'll say it again, overall, Vaz has been a plus as a catcher. I'm glad the Sox had him. I think his plus O outweighed his faults b ehind the plate. I do not think he was as good as others felt, but that is not the same as saying he sucks or was a net negative. He wasn't.

 

Houston needed someone to spell Maldy, so he'd be more rested for the playoffs. The trade made total sense for them and us. I think, if Vaz had hit .750 for Hou, he might have played a little more, but not much more. They love Maldy, here, unlike how many fans viewed Leon and Plawecki, here.

 

You still haven't explained why Vaz has sucked and been a let-down for Houston.

[Old Red]

You still haven't explained why Vaz has sucked and been a let-down for Houston.

 

He just doesn’t think Vaz is good enough rather it was in Boston, or Houston.

[moonslav59]

Once again over analyzing like you do best just like you did with saying I hated Cora. I specifically said you didn’t like Bogey, and his D meaning you didn’t like his D at SS, and in no way did I say you didn’t like Bogey. Of course with the way you over analyze things you see things that aren’t even there, so no apologies coming, and none warranted.

 

Words matter. You worded it to say I don't like Bogey, and then you added his D. It's not overanalyzing. It's taking your words to mean what they say.

 

Out of all the bad things you had to say about Cora, I said you hated him. I'm still not sure you don't, but you never said it, and I apologized for assuming you did.

 

You said I disliked Bogey, and that is totally false. We all know I dislike his defense at SS, although I have given him props for this year's improved D.

 

I knew you'd never admit you made a mistake, even if just with your wording, but your statement means I dislike Bogey. It's not some deep over analyzation. It's simple English comprehension. It's tellin, you left off the word "either" from your quote. A very dishonest move. That word has meaning in English, and it is not any deep or nebulous meaning. You said I did not like Bogey, and his D EITHER. That clearly mean both. Own up!

 

You can't even admit to a simple cop-out like, "Sorry, I worded that wrongly." Instead, you double down.

 

Like I said, I know you will never apologize.

[Old Red]

Words matter. You worded it to say I don't like Bogey, and then you added his D. It's not overanalyzing. It's taking your words to mean what they say.

 

Out of all the bad things you had to say about Cora, I said you hated him. I'm still not sure you don't, but you never said it, and I apologized for assuming you did.

 

You said I disliked Bogey, and that is totally false. We all know I dislike his defense at SS, although I have given him props for this year's improved D.

 

I knew you'd never admit you made a mistake, even if just with your wording, but your statement means I dislike Bogey. It's not some deep over analyzation. It's simple English comprehension. It's tellin, you left off the word "either" from your quote. A very dishonest move. That word has meaning in English, and it is not any deep or nebulous meaning. You said I did not like Bogey, and his D EITHER. That clearly mean both. Own up!

 

You can't even admit to a simple cop-out like, "Sorry, I worded that wrongly." Instead, you double down.

 

Like I said, I know you will never apologize.

 

You said I HATED CORA, because I made the statement that I would not have hired Cora back for him LEADING the cheating scandal in Houston, and you jumped, and over analyzed from there, and said I hated him. Perfect example of over analyzing, which you do often if it doesn’t jibe with your opinions.Bogey, and his D was in the same sentence, so it was nothing added, so as usual you put your spin on it, and come up with something different. I worded it right, but you just looked at it wrong to fit your purpose as you always do. Either way I D G A D.

[moonslav59]

You said I HATED CORA, because I made the statement that I would not have hired Cora back for him LEADING the cheating scandal in Houston, and you jumped, and over analyzed from there, and said I hated him. Perfect example of over analyzing, which you do often if it doesn’t jibe with your opinions.Bogey, and his D was in the same sentence, so it was nothing added, so as usual you put your spin on it, and come up with something different. I worded it right, but you just looked at it wrong to fit your purpose as you always do. Either way I D G A D.

 

Triple down.

 

You obviously don't even know the simple meaning of either in that context.

 

It means I do not like Bogey and I do not like his D, "either."

 

Yes, I made an assumption that you hated Cora, and I still think it may be true, but I admitted I was wrong.

 

You cling to your lies rather than admit you mikspoke or lied.

[Old Red]

Triple down.

 

You obviously don't even know the simple meaning of either in that context.

 

It means I do not like Bogey and I do not like his D, "either."

 

Yes, I made an assumption that you hated Cora, and I still think it may be true, but I admitted I was wrong.

 

You cling to your lies rather than admit you mikspoke or lied.

 

Once again. IDGAD what you think, and that goes for Bloom, or Cora. Lies, lies lies all you want.

[moonslav59]

Once again. IDGAD what you think, and that goes for Bloom, or Cora. Lies, lies lies all you want.

 

It's not what I think. It's what you wrote.

 

If I say I don't like the Yanks or their manager either. I mean I dislike both. There is no other interpretation possible.

[Old Red]

It's not what I think. It's what you wrote.

 

If I say I don't like the Yanks or their manager either. I mean I dislike both. There is no other interpretation possible.

 

So in your world, and interpretation when I said I wouldn’t have hired Cora back that meant I hated him. I wouldn’t have hired Bloom, and I think he should be gone now, but I don’t hate him. I know you think you are always right, but I bet a independent study of all said it would say differently.

[moonslav59]

So in your world, and interpretation when I said I wouldn’t have hired Cora back that meant I hated him. I wouldn’t have hired Bloom, and I think he should be gone now, but I don’t hate him. I know you think you are always right, but I bet a independent study of all said it would say differently.

 

it's not an interpretation. You said what you said.

 

A simple, "I ddid not mean it that way." would have, at least, been a step in the right direction. Instead, you double and triple down on a very clear statement.

 

The meaning is clear, If you did not intend it to mean that, then all you have to di is say so.

 

It's not some deep and mysterious interpretation. Your statement clearly meant I do not like Bogey. Twist all you want to avoid an apology, but there is no other interpretation for what you said. Period.

[Old Red]

it's not an interpretation. You said what you said.

 

A simple, "I ddid not mean it that way." would have, at least, been a step in the right direction. Instead, you double and triple down on a very clear statement.

 

The meaning is clear, If you did not intend it to mean that, then all you have to di is say so.

 

It's not some deep and mysterious interpretation. Your statement clearly meant I do not like Bogey. Twist all you want to avoid an apology, but there is no other interpretation for what you said. Period.

So in your la la land if someone says they wouldn’t hire someone that means they hate them. I did not have to say it any other way than I did, but maybe just maybe it is your interpretation that was wrong. As a matter of FACT is was.

[moonslav59]

So in your la la land if someone says they wouldn’t hire someone that means they hate them. I did not have to say it any other way than I did, but maybe just maybe it is your interpretation that was wrong. As a matter of FACT is was.

 

I have already said I was wrong.

 

Why not try that on your Bogey statement of fact?

 

English words have meaning. There is no other way to interpret a statement followed by "either."

 

There is no "maybe" about it.

[Old Red]

I have already said I was wrong.

 

Why not try that on your Bogey statement of fact?

 

English words have meaning. There is no other way to interpret a statement followed by "either."

 

There is no "maybe" about it.

 

As you remember when I made the I would not rehire Cora statement I also said I would not rehire the hoodie wearer with the Pats, or the cigar smoker with the Celtics if they did the same thing, so by your interpretation I must hate Bill, and Red too.

[moonslav59]

As you remember when I made the I would not rehire Cora statement I also said I would not rehire the hoodie wearer with the Pats, or the cigar smoker with the Celtics if they did the same thing, so by your interpretation I must hate Bill, and Red too.

 

More strawmen. You're getting very good at it.

[Old Red]

More strawmen. You're getting very good at it.

 

To bad you couldn’t get something right once in a while. Trades, signings, or a interpretation. Still looking for a first idea is a gift, and a curse.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Bryce "Deliverance" Harper delivers. Ortiz-like. Edited October 23, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER