How would you use Whitlock next year?

[Old Red]

If you Google relief ace you'll get a bunch of hits. I did not make it up. Jeezus.

 

All I have said I Have Never Heard that term before, and I have not. I never said you made it up. When is the last time outside of here you have read, or heard it used? Just asking?

Edited August 28, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

If you Google relief ace you'll get a bunch of hits. I did not make it up. Jeezus.

 

It's not worth the bother, Bell. Wordsmithing is frowned upon by many.

 

[Old Red]

Tampa, this year, has no designated closer…

 

I sad you don’t see many. I did not say any. Using good ole Tampa for an example again.

[Old Red]

It's not worth the bother, Bell. Wordsmithing is frowned upon by many.

 

 

No! It’s not worth the bother, because I don’t hear anyone using it, and if I’m wrong about that where?

[dgalehouse]

You know exactly what you're doing.

 

"Only on Talksox."

"The poll is slanted."

"We all know who thinks the relief ace is the best choice."

"The relief ace idea is not going to happen, except in the minds of the same few posters."

 

Those are all your words, and they are directly aimed at other posters.

 

Don't play dumb.

 

You are being ridiculous. Much of what is posted here is aimed at other posters. Some of it is very smarmy , sarcastic or just nasty. Some of the time it is aimed at me. But you always blame me. It is not right and I am tired of it. Some others have gone off base and have vilified you in a derogatory manner for your bias. I would never do that. But I am fed up with the whole double standard thing. How about you don't respond to me and I won't respond to you. Deal?

[Old Red]

You are being ridiculous. Much of what is posted here is aimed at other posters. Some of it is very smarmy , sarcastic or just nasty. Some of the time it is aimed at me. But you always blame me. It is not right and I am tired of it. Some others have gone off base and have vilified you in a derogatory manner for your bias. I would never do that. But I am fed up with the whole double standard thing. How about you don't respond to me and I won't respond to you. Deal?

It’s just like the Seinfeld show. It’s all about nothing.

[notin]

All I have said I Have Never Heard that term before, and I have not. I never said you made it up. When is the last time outside of here you have read, or heard it used? Just asking?

 

Like I said, look at how the Sox are using Schreiber. Unless you believe the massive coincidence that he has faced Vlad Guerrero 5 times in his 7 appearances against Toronto was simple game script. (Especially since Vlad only played in 6 of those games.)

[Old Red]

Like I said, look at how the Sox are using Schreiber. Unless you believe the massive coincidence that he has faced Vlad Guerrero 5 times in his 7 appearances against Toronto was simple game script. (Especially since Vlad only played in 6 of those games.)

 

What to hell does how they are using Schreiber got to do with the term relief Ace being used.That may be how Schreiber is being used, but who is using relief Ace to describe anyone?

[notin]

What to hell does how they are using Schreiber got to do with the term relief Ace being used.That may be how Schreiber is being used, but who is using relief Ace to describe anyone?

 

Because Schreiber IS the Relief Ace this season!!!

 

He’s been the guy Cora uses when he thinks the game is on the line, either due to opposing best hitters due up or due to the opposition battering other Sox relievers to make a game too close.

 

For all this bitching that we made the role up on this board, the Sox ARE ALREADY DOING THIS. Did your Eye Test miss that too?

[Old Red]

Because Schreiber IS the Relief Ace this season!!!

 

He’s been the guy Cora uses when he thinks the game is on the line, either due to opposing best hitters due up or due to the opposition battering other Sox relievers to make a game too close.

 

For all this bitching that we made the role up on this board, the Sox ARE ALREADY DOING THIS. Did your Eye Test miss that too?

It’s not the role being made up, but when is the last time, or at all has the term relief Ace been used on any broadcast, or anywhere else? You keep avoiding, and answering that question. Thanks for asking about my eye test. Came out fine.

[Bellhorn04]

You are being ridiculous. Much of what is posted here is aimed at other posters. Some of it is very smarmy , sarcastic or just nasty. Some of the time it is aimed at me. But you always blame me. It is not right and I am tired of it. Some others have gone off base and have vilified you in a derogatory manner for your bias. I would never do that. But I am fed up with the whole double standard thing. How about you don't respond to me and I won't respond to you. Deal?

 

I'll post the way I want to. You can certainly stop responding to me if you prefer.

 

You're probably right that I've been picking on you lately. Maybe it's because I like you and respect your baseball knowledge, but you disappoint me with your constant shots at Bloom supporters and "nerds". You often do it in a very passive-aggressive way. And then you will post things about how everyone has to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously. And then you go right back to the same stuff, just as you did on this thread, with the "only on Talksox" and "we all know who voted for relief ace" comments. Why is that necessary?

[jacksonianmarch]

I don’t use Whitlock as a starter or closer. I use him a la Michael King with NYY before his elbow literally exploded. Multi inning relief weapon.

 

Houck I’d do the same with. Get yourself a true 1 inning closer. Use Houck and Whitlock as multi inning weapons 2 times a week apiece and you can take games from your rotation and carry them to your closer 4 times a week, which increases your chances of winning

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not the role being made up, but when is the last time, or at all has the term relief Ace been used on any broadcast, or anywhere else? You keep avoiding, and answering that question. Thanks for asking about my eye test. Came out fine.

 

As you're saying, it has become a role. So you might as well call it something. I've seen it called relief ace more than once, and it seems about the best name for it.

[Old Red]

As you're saying, it has become a role. So you might as well call it something. I've seen it called relief ace more than once, and it seems about the best name for it.

 

Ok. No problem now that I know.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t use Whitlock as a starter or closer. I use him a la Michael King with NYY before his elbow literally exploded. Multi inning relief weapon.

 

Houck I’d do the same with. Get yourself a true 1 inning closer. Use Houck and Whitlock as multi inning weapons 2 times a week apiece and you can take games from your rotation and carry them to your closer 4 times a week, which increases your chances of winning

 

So jackson's term for it is "multi inning relief weapon".

 

Next we can have a poll on the best name for it.

[Old Red]

I don’t use Whitlock as a starter or closer. I use him a la Michael King with NYY before his elbow literally exploded. Multi inning relief weapon.

 

Houck I’d do the same with. Get yourself a true 1 inning closer. Use Houck and Whitlock as multi inning weapons 2 times a week apiece and you can take games from your rotation and carry them to your closer 4 times a week, which increases your chances of winning

I agree 100% with this, but the key is getting a true closer first, and I don’t see the Red Sox going out, and spending much money to do so.

[moonslav59]

https://lastwordonsports.com/baseball/2022/05/11/michael-king-emerges-as-relief-ace/

 

https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2018/04/12/like-all-baseball-experiments-the-relief-aces-future-will-depend-on-its-success/

 

https://www.pitcherlist.com/going-deep-the-secret-relief-ace/

 

Here's one from 2015:

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/7/6/8895347/the-relief-ace-strategy-in-practice

 

I think our pen could be in great shape in 2023 with this as the core:

 

Houck: traditional closer

 

Whitlock/Schreiber: "relief aces"

 

The rest is kind of shaky and would need some turn-arounds or recoveries from injuries:

 

Barnes

Taylor

German

 

Not counting on much from...

 

Sawamura

Danish

Crawford/Winckowski/Seabold/Murphy or other converted starters.

Edited August 28, 2022 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I agree 100% with this, but the key is getting a true closer first, and I don’t see the Red Sox going out, and spending much money to do so.

 

Houck is a possibility.

 

And BTW I'm not arguing that we don't need more back-end bullpen help. I liked the Foulke signing. I liked the Kimbrel trade. I like anything that helps us win games.

[Old Red]

So jackson's term for it is "multi inning relief weapon".

 

Next we can have a poll on the best name for it.

I’m going for the Monsta reliever named after my favorite Dick Radtz who did everything if only for a short time.

[Old Red]

https://lastwordonsports.com/baseball/2022/05/11/michael-king-emerges-as-relief-ace/

 

https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2018/04/12/like-all-baseball-experiments-the-relief-aces-future-will-depend-on-its-success/

 

https://www.pitcherlist.com/going-deep-the-secret-relief-ace/

 

Here's one from 2015:

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/7/6/8895347/the-relief-ace-strategy-in-practice

 

I think our pen could be in great shape in 2023 with this as the core:

 

Houck: traditional closer

 

Whitlock/Schreiber: "relief aces"

 

The rest is kind of shaky and would need some turn-arounds or recoveries from injuries:

 

Barnes

Taylor

German

 

Not counting on much from...

 

Sawamura

Danish

Crawford/Winckowski/Seabold/Murphy or other converted starters.

 

I know Schreiber has been good this year, but I Don’t know if you can count on him to do the same thing next year.

[moonslav59]

Houck is a possibility.

 

And BTW I'm not arguing that we don't need more back-end bullpen help. I liked the Foulke signing. I liked the Kimbrel trade. I like anything that helps us win games.

 

Bloom has tried to add to the pen, but nothing too costly- like Foulke or Kimbrel. Maybe he's hoping he finds the next Uehara, but that's a needle in the haystack.

 

2022:

$4M x 2 Diekman

$3M x 1 Strahm

$2.3M x 1 Robles

Waivers (Feb 2021) Schreiber

Minor League R5 (Dec 2020): Ort

MLFA (in season): Familia

 

2021:

Trade: Ottavino & German

$1.5M x 2 Sawamura (w option for '23)

$2.1M x 1 Andriese

Trade: Robles

Trade: Davis

Extended Barnes $18.8M/2

 

2020:

Waivers (Feb 2020): P Valdez

Min Salary: Osich

[notin]

I know Schreiber has been good this year, but I Don’t know if you can count on him to do the same thing next year.

 

I can understand that. He’sa 30yo pitcher that got released by the Tigers.

 

That’s why I could see Whitlock taking the relief ace role from Schreiber. Schreiber taking a middle relief role from Brasier. And Brasier taking the older Schreiber role and getting released.

 

Then sign two from Fulmer, Montero and Treinen. And the new closer can come from one of those two plus Houck and maybe even Barnes…

[jacksonianmarch]

Schreiber makes your own next year but he gives me Brasier vibes. Remember Brasier kicked around the Japanese minors then came to Boston and lit the world on fire. Once everyone saw his new arsenal, though, they adjusted the second year and he’s been downhill from there. AAAA players aren’t there due to lack of talent, they’re there due to lack of adjustment. Eventually the bigs will adjust to Schreiber and it’ll be on him to adjust

[moonslav59]

Schreiber makes your own next year but he gives me Brasier vibes. Remember Brasier kicked around the Japanese minors then came to Boston and lit the world on fire. Once everyone saw his new arsenal, though, they adjusted the second year and he’s been downhill from there. AAAA players aren’t there due to lack of talent, they’re there due to lack of adjustment. Eventually the bigs will adjust to Schreiber and it’ll be on him to adjust

 

He hasn't just made up his nasty stuff out of thin air, or has he?

[dgalehouse]

I am not sold on Schreiber just yet. His sidearm slider looks tough on right handers . We will see if he is for real. And I am not sold on Houck as a closer either. The bullpen needs an overhaul.

[moonslav59]

I can understand that. He’sa 30yo pitcher that got released by the Tigers.

 

That’s why I could see Whitlock taking the relief ace role from Schreiber. Schreiber taking a middle relief role from Brasier. And Brasier taking the older Schreiber role and getting released.

 

Then sign two from Fulmer, Montero and Treinen. And the new closer can come from one of those two plus Houck and maybe even Barnes…

 

There is room for both Whitlock and Schreiber to be "relief aces," next year. Neither can pitch everyday, especially when going more than 1 IP, sometimes.

 

Houck can be the traditional closer. Whitlock and Schreiber can be the 1-2 IP guys who come in when needed most- not always always the 8th inning.

[Old Red]

I am not sold on Schreiber just yet. His sidearm slider looks tough on right handers . We will see if he is for real. And I am not sold on Houck as a closer either. The bullpen needs an overhaul.

 

I agree 100% that to go into next season counting on Schreiber to duplicate this year, and to count on Houck as the full time closer would be a mistake. I trust Whitlock more than either one of them, and even then you don’t know if he could close either. I think getting a reliable closer would be the best way to go. Label them anyway you want, but to me they are just part of the BP.

[jacksonianmarch]

He hasn't just made up his nasty stuff out of thin air, or has he?

 

As with Brasier, he saw a velo bump which prompted his improvements. It is now up to Schreiber to stay ahead of hitters. And we are already seeing a regression, granted his first three months were unsustainable.

[dgalehouse]

I agree 100% that to go into next season counting on Schreiber to duplicate this year, and to count on Houck as the full time closer would be a mistake. I trust Whitlock more than either one of them, and even then you don’t know if he could close either. I think getting a reliable closer would be the best way to go. Label them anyway you want, but to me they are just part of the BP.

 

I agree that the closer is just part of the bullpen. But the closer is the leader, the linchpin of the pen. People get too hung up on the save stat. To me a save means that you won the game. And winning the game is the objective.

[moonslav59]

As with Brasier, he saw a velo bump which prompted his improvements. It is now up to Schreiber to stay ahead of hitters. And we are already seeing a regression, granted his first three months were unsustainable.

 

Good points.

 

We obviously need to make serious additions to next year's pen, but I'd feel fine pencilling him in to a high leverage slot on the off season charts. We just need others added.

 

Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber is a nice core to build on. If Taylor can get healthy, maybe we have 4. Perhaps someone like German, Crawford, Winckowski or Murphy can give us a surprise boost from the farm, but we should not count on more than 4 from what we carry over from 2022.