How much would you offer Eovaldi?

[Old Red]

And yet the team was still two games from a World Series. What does that say about the importance of a W-L record for an ace?

 

And also 1 game away from not making the postseason at all..

[Old Red]

Yes, but he was a prospect when we obtained him.

 

No, he's not homegrown, but trading for prospects is one way to build up a farm that has trouble developing young SP'ers.

 

We are trying to figure out ways to build a strong pitching staff, going forward. We can't count on Rule 5 picks like Whitlock to be commonplace. We tried trading for pitching prospects like Seabold and Winckowski, but they both have a ways to go to prove they are ML caliber starters.

 

We can hope some of our most recent drafted or IFA pitching prospects do better than those in the past. It is possible history does not keep repeating itself forever, especially when changes have been made to your system of identifying who to draft/select and how to develop them, since the days of Ben and DD.

 

I believe you seem to not give much importance to the potential value prospects hold, but we have some starters in the minors that are doing much better than anything I've seen in over a decade. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but I like our chances of developing 1-2 very good pitchers out of the current bunch:

 

AAA

2.75 Winckowski (.498 OPS Against) 19 K: 5 BB

2.93 Seabold (.563 OPSAgainst) 26K: 9 BB

These OPS Against numbers is like getting JBJ results from all the hitetrs youface!

 

AA

1.60 Bello (.460 and 28K:8 BB)

1.97 Murphy (.526 and 41K:14BB

2.97 Walter (.532 and an amazing 42:2!!!)

4.26 Groome (.648 and 28:10)

 

We also have some pen arms doing very well, like Frank German (trade) .449 OPSA, Politi .509 OPSA and Schreiber .643.

 

I'd prefer to rely on more than hopes, too. That's why I think we should try to find top pitchers via trade, and every now and then via free agency.

 

Wacha and Hill seem to be working, but Richards, Perez I and Perez II did not. Trying to find gems in the rough is a slippery slope, and relying on taht method, alone is scary as hell, to me.

 

How about you?

 

Tell us how you'd build a strong staff.

 

Like I have said many times prospects, are suspects, and useless until they show up in Boston in a Red Sox uniform, and produce, or a traded for someone like Sale, or CK who does.What are Winckowski, Bello, or Sebold’s Red Sox stats?

[notin]

Either Seabold or Winckowski should be in Boston right now. Houck just isn’t a starter and neither is some high profile 22yo prospect where service time is even a concern. Give one a chance! It’s free!

 

The only cost is a bus ticket to Worcester for Kutter Crawford, which doesn’t even have to be a one way ticket..

[moonslav59]

My first priority in a plan would be to lock up Bogey, and Raffy, and then go from there. If that doesn’t happen then I don’t really care at this point.

 

Still no plan about pitching.

[Old Red]

No, what's your answer on how to fix the problem- not why we have the problem.

 

Put your plan out there.

 

I never said I had a plan to fix the problem, and I’ll admit I’m to lazy to produce one. All I have said is I don’t believe Evol is worth $20M+, and I’m predicting Bloom thinks the same way. I’m not an QB, but I’m an armchair QB, and I’m not a driver, but a backseat driver, and if I see something out there I’ll agree, or disagree. Most on here have said they would pay Evol $20M+ We’ll and see who is right.

[moonslav59]

Like I have said many times prospects, are suspects, and useless until they show up in Boston in a Red Sox uniform, and produce, or a traded for someone like Sale, or CK who does.What are Winckowski, Bello, or Sebold’s Red Sox stats?

 

Every great pitcher once had no ML stats.

 

You still won't tell us your plan on addressing our staff building for 2023. What good is having Bogey and Devers, if we have a s***** staff?

 

If we don't sign any big FA pitchers, and won't get anything for prospects with zero stats in the bigs, the only thing left is trading "useless" prospects.

[Bellhorn04]

I never said I had a plan to fix the problem, and I’ll admit I’m to lazy to produce one. All I have said is I don’t believe Evol is worth $20M+, and I’m predicting Bloom thinks the same way. I’m not an QB, but I’m an armchair QB, and I’m not a driver, but a backseat driver, and if I see something out there I’ll agree, or disagree. Most on here have said they would pay Evol $20M+ We’ll and see who is right.

 

This thread is about how much we would pay, not whether Bloom will do it. So there's no right or wrong.

[moonslav59]

I never said I had a plan to fix the problem, and I’ll admit I’m to lazy to produce one. All I have said is I don’t believe Evol is worth $20M+, and I’m predicting Bloom thinks the same way. I’m not an QB, but I’m an armchair QB, and I’m not a driver, but a backseat driver, and if I see something out there I’ll agree, or disagree. Most on here have said they would pay Evol $20M+ We’ll and see who is right.

 

You really have issues with understanding questions.

 

Our whole point is that you have never presented your plan or ideas, and now you act like we have said you had a plan.

 

We are asking for your plan on how to build our 2023 staff.

 

It's easy to say everyone else is wrong in their ideas, but why not tell us your ideas?

 

I'm not saying you are wrong about free agents signings or the likelihood our farm will produce and ace or 2-3 really good pitchers, but not being wrong does not take you off the hook. You really should tell us how you would do it.

 

You don't have to, but criticizing other people's plans without having one of your own makes the critiques ring a little hollow. Just my opinion, of course.

[Old Red]

This thread is about how much we would pay, not whether Bloom will do it. So there's no right or wrong.

 

Since when do posters stick with thread subjects?

[moonslav59]

This thread is about how much we would pay, not whether Bloom will do it. So there's no right or wrong.

 

He keeps confusing the two ideas.

 

It's okay to speculate what we think Bloom will do, too, but it's not the same as saying what we would do.

 

I'd also add that a differing opinion or plan than what Bloom might have does not mean we think Bloom is necessarily wrong with his plans.

[Bellhorn04]

Since when do posters stick with thread subjects?

 

You missed the point. You're the one who said "We'll see who's right."

[Old Red]

You really have issues with understanding questions.

 

Our whole point is that you have never presented your plan or ideas, and now you act like we have said you had a plan.

 

We are asking for your plan on how to build our 2023 staff.

 

It's easy to say everyone else is wrong in their ideas, but why not tell us your ideas?

 

I'm not saying you are wrong about free agents signings or the likelihood our farm will produce and ace or 2-3 really good pitchers, but not being wrong does not take you off the hook. You really should tell us how you would do it.

 

You don't have to, but criticizing other people's plans without having one of your own makes the critiques ring a little hollow. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Who’s plan did I criticize by saying Evol is not worth $20M? Who says I have to have a plan? I’ve seen you present many BTV trades on here, but when has one ever happened? You still haven’t answered if you trust Bloom to build this team for 2023, and beyond. I don’t have trouble understanding questions. I didn’t know it was mandatory to have a plan, but sorry if I don’t have one.opinions I do have just like everyone else.

[Old Red]

You missed the point. You're the one who said "We'll see who's right."

 

And that was wrong how? Either Evol gets resigned, or he doesn’t. If he signs with the Red Sox I’ll have no problem saying I was wrong.

[notin]

This thread is about how much we would pay, not whether Bloom will do it. So there's no right or wrong.

 

And most have said 3 or 4 years at $X per year.

 

Which leads to the next question - what does Eovaldi want? And do our wishes and his wishes align?

 

I do think 3 years is fine, but not more. I doubt Eovaldi feels the same…

[Old Red]

He keeps confusing the two ideas.

 

It's okay to speculate what we think Bloom will do, too, but it's not the same as saying what we would do.

 

I'd also add that a differing opinion or plan than what Bloom might have does not mean we think Bloom is necessarily wrong with his plans.

 

Another like one of your famous quotes that I don’t agree with Cora, but I don’t think Cora is wrong.

[moonslav59]

Who’s plan did I criticize by saying Evol is not worth $20M? Who says I have to have a plan? I’ve seen you present many BTV trades on here, but when has one ever happened? You still haven’t answered if you trust Bloom to build this team for 2023, and beyond. I don’t have trouble understanding questions. I didn’t know it was mandatory to have a plan, but sorry if I don’t have one.opinions I do have just like everyone else.

 

I actually said you don't have to have a plan.

 

I just said that criticizing other people's idea and plans without stating your own on how to build a better staff, rings hollow, to me. "Just my opinion."

 

Again, you don't have to give us a plan. You can continue being "lazy" as you put it. Nobody is forcing you to tell us a better way to build a strong pitching staff, but some of us might take the criticism differently if you also gave us your "better ideas." It's usually how conversations and debates progress, but again, it need not be.

[moonslav59]

Another like one of your famous quotes that I don’t agree with Cora, but I don’t think Cora is wrong.

 

I have no idea how this relates to what is now being discussed.

 

You miss the context so often, it's difficult to have a debate with you.

 

Do you think it's possible to disagree with someone on a few things out of thousands of things, but still like them and think they do an overall good job? That was the context of my statement on Cora. Obviously, you still don't get it.

 

[Old Red]

I have no idea how this relates to what is now being discussed.

 

You miss the context so often, it's difficult to have a debate with you.

 

Do you think it's possible to disagree with someone on a few things out of thousands of things, but still like them and think they do an overall good job? That was the context of my statement on Cora. Obviously, you still don't get it.

 

 

You still haven’t figured out something that is so obvious that I don’t care about context.what you don’t get is just , because you think you aren’t saying Cora is wrong doesn’t mean you aren’t saying Cora is wrong, and there is Nothing wrong with saying Cora is wrong. Saying someone is wrong has nothing to do with if you like them , or not. Hell you, and I disagree all the time, and I don’t dislike you.

[Old Red]

I actually said you don't have to have a plan.

 

I just said that criticizing other people's idea and plans without stating your own on how to build a better staff, rings hollow, to me. "Just my opinion."

 

Again, you don't have to give us a plan. You can continue being "lazy" as you put it. Nobody is forcing you to tell us a better way to build a strong pitching staff, but some of us might take the criticism differently if you also gave us your "better ideas." It's usually how conversations and debates progress, but again, it need not be.

 

My only statement was that I don’t believe Evol is worth $20M, and nothing more than that. If that’s criticizing someone’s plan then I’m guilty.

[Old Red]

You still haven’t figured out something that is so obvious that I don’t care about context.what you don’t get is just , because you think you aren’t saying Cora is wrong doesn’t mean you aren’t saying Cora is wrong, and there is Nothing wrong with saying Cora is wrong. Saying someone is wrong has nothing to do with if you like them , or not. Hell you, and I disagree all the time, and I don’t dislike you. I think Cora has been wrong in how he has handled the BP this year especially the closer role, and I think you do too, and there is nothing wrong with saying that.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Old Red

[dgalehouse]

This discussion has given me a headache. Here is the bottom line: Baseball is a team sport . If you want to win , you need good players . If you want to sign and retain good players , you have to pay. Of you can hope to get lucky. There are no money back guarantees. And no stat or small , cherry picked sample size changes that. As for Eovaldi , he has been our best , most reliable pitcher . If the Sox don't pay him , someone else will. Then we can follow his career and hope that the results justify our position.

[notin]

And that was wrong how? Either Evol gets resigned, or he doesn’t. If he signs with the Red Sox I’ll have no problem saying I was wrong.

 

For someone who constantly states unsupported theories shouldn’t be criticized as their opinions, I’d think this is right up your alley.

 

Bellhorn is just asking what any of us would sign Eovaldi for. He’s going to sign somewhere for something, and it’s 105% likely to not be any figures used on this board. That doesn’t make any of us - even you - wrong….

[notin]

This discussion has given me a headache. Here is the bottom line: Baseball is a team sport . If you want to win , you need good players . If you want to sign and retain good players , you have to pay. Of you can hope to get lucky. There are no money back guarantees. And no stat or small , cherry picked sample size changes that. As for Eovaldi , he has been our best , most reliable pitcher . If the Sox don't pay him , someone else will. Then we can follow his career and hope that the results justify our position.

 

 

Why does it matter if the results justify my opinion? Whether I’m right or wrong, no one is going to hold me accountable or give me credit. Bloom does have on trait he shares with Dombrowski, Cherington and Epstein and probably even Heywood Sullivan before him; he doesn’t care what I think.

 

I do think Lou Gorman cared. Not much. Just a little. But it mattered to me…

[dgalehouse]

Why does it matter if the results justify my opinion? Whether I’m right or wrong, no one is going to hold me accountable or give me credit. Bloom does have on trait he shares with Dombrowski, Cherington and Epstein and probably even Heywood Sullivan before him; he doesn’t care what I think.

 

I do think Lou Gorman cared. Not much. Just a little. But it mattered to me…

 

notin , If it makes you feel any better , I care what you think.

[moonslav59]

You still haven’t figured out something that is so obvious that I don’t care about context.what you don’t get is just , because you think you aren’t saying Cora is wrong doesn’t mean you aren’t saying Cora is wrong, and there is Nothing wrong with saying Cora is wrong. Saying someone is wrong has nothing to do with if you like them , or not. Hell you, and I disagree all the time, and I don’t dislike you.

 

This is totally false. You bashed me for criticizing Cora and still saying I'm glad we have him as our GM. Specifically, yes, you did. You are still saying it now and missing the context.

 

Not surprising.

[moonslav59]

My only statement was that I don’t believe Evol is worth $20M, and nothing more than that. If that’s criticizing someone’s plan then I’m guilty.

 

Please! Stop.

 

It's not just about Eovaldi.

[moonslav59]

For someone who constantly states unsupported theories shouldn’t be criticized as their opinions, I’d think this is right up your alley.

 

Bellhorn is just asking what any of us would sign Eovaldi for. He’s going to sign somewhere for something, and it’s 105% likely to not be any figures used on this board. That doesn’t make any of us - even you - wrong….

 

It's pointless debating someone who cannot understand how debating goes, then when cornered, he says, "I told you I'd just change the question," or something like that.

[Old Red]

So, 2 people would offer nothing? Why? To not dishonor him with a lowball offer?

 

This is how it all started, because you didn’t like that 2 people, who one of them was me voted they would not offer Evol anything. That to me, and my opinion was the best answer to the question. Not that I don’t think Evol is a good pitcher, but I don’t think he was worth the other answers. I don’t care if you, or anybody else liked my vote, or my opinion, and try as hard as you want, but my opinion right, or wrong is not going to change.

[Old Red]

It's pointless debating someone who cannot understand how debating goes, then when cornered, he says, "I told you I'd just change the question," or something like that.

 

I didn’t know this was a debate club, and if you don’t answer something to the exact wording that a question is asked the major crime unit comes in to investigate. You say it’s pointless to debate, but you keep on trying to do it, and in the process no one’s mind is getting changed.

[MADSTORK]

The Player will be 33 with an injury history a mile long

 

Much like Schwarber you move on

 

Save the cash for XB and Devers but with Orlando in charge don’t hold your breathe