Paul O’Neill’s number to be retired

[jacksonianmarch]

Bout time. That guy was part of that core that basically wouldn’t quit.

[mvp 78]

John Valentin had a greater fWAR with the Sox in less games than O'Neil did with the Yankees. I don't see the Sox retiring Valentin's number anytime soon.

[jacksonianmarch]

John Valentin’s hands are mighty empty though

[notin]

John Valentin’s hands are mighty empty though

 

By that logic, the Yankees will be retiring Luis Sojo’s number next.

 

Make that numbers. He wore a few in the Bronx…

[jacksonianmarch]

For the first six years in the Bronx, O’Neill was a .900OPS, middle of the order, “warrior” who routinely played 150 games a year. He was a major contributor to a team that won 4 titles and was on a World Series losing team in 2001. It makes sense to retire numbers of major contributors to dynastic teams, especially since there hasn’t been a dynasty since.

 

O’Neill’s WAR isn’t what it could have been because he was generally regarded by metrics as a poor fielder. His offense, though, was top notch

[mvp 78]

It'd be the same argument for Ellsbury to have his number retired in BOS. Doesn't make much sense to me. If you want a low bar for Yankees numbers to be retired, I don't have a problem with it. I just don't see O'Neill as a Yankee legend.

[a700hitter]

It'd be the same argument for Ellsbury to have his number retired in BOS. Doesn't make much sense to me. If you want a low bar for Yankees numbers to be retired, I don't have a problem with it. I just don't see O'Neill as a Yankee legend.

O’Neill was much better than Ellsbury, but borderline for getting his number retired even with the Yankee’s low standards.

[notin]

The real curiosity is how O’Neill got his number retired and Hall of Famers Herb Pennock, Earle Combs and Joe Gordon don’t. Only Gordon spent less time on the Yankees than O’Neill, but that was because he missed two seasons to serve in Workd War II…

[mvp 78]

The real curiosity is how O’Neill got his number retired and Hall of Famers Herb Pennock, Earle Combs and Joe Gordon don’t. Only Gordon spent less time on the Yankees than O’Neill, but that was because he missed two seasons to serve in Workd War II…

 

Combs' #1 was retired... for Billy Martin.

[notin]

Combs' #1 was retired... for Billy Martin.

 

So instead they retired it for a lesser player that the owner fired multiple times?

[mvp 78]

So instead they retired it for a lesser player that the owner fired multiple times?

 

Seems like it.

[notin]

Seems like it.

 

Do they retire numbers based on talk show appearances and Miller Lite commercials over actual baseball?

[mvp 78]

Do they retire numbers based on talk show appearances and Miller Lite commercials over actual baseball?

 

Tastes great...

[jacksonianmarch]

O’Neill was great for 6 years through the beginnings of the dynasty and was good for the final 3 he was in NY. He was a middle of the order presence who rarely missed games and won 4 titles. It’s not surprising that a dynasty has a lot of retired numbers.

[notin]

O’Neill was great for 6 years through the beginnings of the dynasty and was good for the final 3 he was in NY. He was a middle of the order presence who rarely missed games and won 4 titles. It’s not surprising that a dynasty has a lot of retired numbers.

 

 

Combs was inducted into Cooperstown and won 3 WS rings in his 12 seasons in the Bronx.

 

Pennock won 3 WS rings in the Bronx and was also inducted into Cooperstown.

 

Gordon won 4 WS rings on the Yankees, won an MVP Award in NY, and was inducted into Cooperstown.

 

I’m not saying the Yankees retire too many numbers. I’m saying the Yankees retire the wrong ones sometimes. There’s no argument O’Neill was better and more deserving than these 3 players. Try to make one.

 

(And bringing up Gordon only playing 7 years in NY is an opportunity to mention his tenure in the Bronx was interrupted by his WWII service. O’Neill has no such equivalent.)

[notin]

O’Neill was great for 6 years through the beginnings of the dynasty and was good for the final 3 he was in NY. He was a middle of the order presence who rarely missed games and won 4 titles. It’s not surprising that a dynasty has a lot of retired numbers.

 

Also don’t forget his appearance on “Seinfeld.” I believe the Yankee FO is already planning a ceremony to retire the number of Danny Tartabull, as well…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Combs was inducted into Cooperstown and won 3 WS rings in his 12 seasons in the Bronx.

 

Pennock won 3 WS rings in the Bronx and was also inducted into Cooperstown.

 

Gordon won 4 WS rings on the Yankees, won an MVP Award in NY, and was inducted into Cooperstown.

 

I’m not saying the Yankees retire too many numbers. I’m saying the Yankees retire the wrong ones sometimes. There’s no argument O’Neill was better and more deserving than these 3 players. Try to make one.

 

(And bringing up Gordon only playing 7 years in NY is an opportunity to mention his tenure in the Bronx was interrupted by his WWII service. O’Neill has no such equivalent.)

 

Gordon was MVP in 1942, ahead of Triple Crown winner Ted Williams -- though in retrospect, Joe was second to Mr. Ballgame in WAR.

 

However, according to the Yankees scout who signed him, Gordon was "at his best when it meant the most and the going was toughest." That might not mean much to some modern fans convinced that such qualitative data is meaningless... now try telling that to guys next to him in foxholes back in the real war.

[mvp 78]

I’m not saying the Yankees retire too many numbers. I’m saying the Yankees retire the wrong ones sometimes.

 

If O'Neil had played his whole career in NY, you could probably make the case to retire his number.

 

Also, #9 should be for Nettles, not Maris.

[notin]

If O'Neil had played his whole career in NY, you could probably make the case to retire his number.

 

Also, #9 should be for Nettles, not Maris.

 

Maris is on the very short list of eligible players with two MVP awards that are not in Cooperstown. I’m ok with the number being retired for him. (Dale Murphy and Juan Gonzalez are the rest of the list.)

 

Nettles should be best remembered for stuffing a bat with super balls, only to have it break and scatter super balls all over the diamond…

[notin]

If O'Neil had played his whole career in NY, you could probably make the case to retire his number.

 

 

Combs played his whole career in NY, and they retired him number for another guy with an OPS some 200 points lower…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Combs played his whole career in NY, and they retired him number for another guy with an OPS some 200 points lower…

 

Yankee fans were just confused by Earle. When they looked closely, they saw no real need for Combs...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earle_b_combs.jpg

[mvp 78]

Combs played his whole career in NY, and they retired him number for another guy with an OPS some 200 points lower…

 

Yes, it was mentioned before.

[mvp 78]

Maris is on the very short list of eligible players with two MVP awards that are not in Cooperstown. I’m ok with the number being retired for him. (Dale Murphy and Juan Gonzalez are the rest of the list.)

 

Nettles should be best remembered for stuffing a bat with super balls, only to have it break and scatter super balls all over the diamond…

 

Nettles said he was given the bat on the previous trip to Chicago. His WRC+ from that trip through the broken bat was 133. Too bad there is no video of it on the internet.

[notin]

Yes, it was mentioned before.

 

Yes, but it’s very odd.

 

There are not many Hall of Famers who don’t have their numbers retired as it is (John Smoltz and Alan Trammell don’t), but the list of Hall of Famers whose number was retired for a much lesser player has to be really short.

 

It would be like watching the Red Sox retire #24. Not for Dwight Evans and not for Manny Ramirez, but instead for Mike Stanley…

Edited February 28, 2022 by notin

[mvp 78]

Yes, but it’s very odd.

 

There are not many Hall of Famers who don’t have their numbers retired as it is (John Smoltz and Alan Trammell don’t), but the list of Hall of Famers whose number was retired for a much lesser player has to be really short.

 

It would be like watching the Red Sox retire #24. Not for Dwight Evans and not for Manny Ramirez, but instead for Mike Stanley…

 

I don't think Billy Martin's number was retired for his playing career.

 

I don't think Managers should have their numbers retired. I also don't think Managers should even have numbers on their jerseys. Should they even wear jerseys?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't think Billy Martin's number was retired for his playing career.

 

I don't think Managers should have their numbers retired. I also don't think Managers should even have numbers on their jerseys. Should they even wear jerseys?

 

I liked the team pullover look that Tito popularized. Anything is better than wearing a suit and tie, like in other sports. You're running up and down the sidelines of a sweaty, athletic game -- not sitting at a business meeting.

 

For that matter, nobody should have to wear a tie ever. Unless women also have to -- then it's a true dress code that doesn't break gender bias laws.

[notin]

I don't think Billy Martin's number was retired for his playing career.

 

I don't think Managers should have their numbers retired. I also don't think Managers should even have numbers on their jerseys. Should they even wear jerseys?

 

Baseball is the only sport where mangers and coaches wear uniforms because it’s the only sport in which they are allowed on the playing field…

[moonslav59]

Anybody that thinks MLB survives without the top 200-400 players playing is kidding themselves.

[notin]

Anybody that thinks MLB survives without the top 200-400 players playing is kidding themselves.

 

So not a fan of pitchers walking 10-15 hitters a day with 88mph fastballs?

[mvp 78]

So not a fan of pitchers walking 10-15 hitters a day with 88mph fastballs?

 

I think MiLB can be an exciting game. It's definitely not a tv ready viewing though. If you complain about Raffy's bad throws, Dalbec's defense at 1b or Xander's lack of range, just wait until you see the younger guys. Woof.