Who should close going forward?

[moonslav59]

Whitlock last 5:

 

8.1IP, 37TBF, 7H, 4BB, 14K, 4ER, 1.32 WHIP, 4.32 ERA

 

He's the obvious best choice, but his role, now is very valuable.

 

Who takes his current role? Richards? Perez? Sawamura?

 

One can argue the closer is the most important pen role, and I would not disagree, but messing with Whitlock, right now, is too scary for me.

 

Leave him where he has done so very well, for us.

[moonslav59]

People will tell you that handle pressure is not a skill lol

 

So, it was a skill for 3 months, then it wasn't. People say it's a skill. lol.

[redsoxrules]

Heck no on Josh Taylor. Don't be fooled by the nice run he had earlier this year. Just keep using him as a lefty specialist. Whitlock has to be the guy and use Ottavino on the night Whitlock needs a break.

[iortiz]

While the BP has been horrible all-in-all lately, Barnes needs a rest to clear his head. It worked for Chapman.

 

Right now he is the worst piece of the pen for high leverage situations.

 

I think Whitlock could be a good option.

[notin]

People will tell you that handle pressure is not a skill lol

 

So closing is pressure but middle relief isn’t?

[iortiz]

So, it was a skill for 3 months, then it wasn't. People say it's a skill. lol.

 

It's a skill. His skill (handling pressure) these days is not good. It happens with any kind of skill. He needs to rest and clear his head.

 

As ill said this is related with his mind. I agree.

[moonslav59]

While the BP has been horrible all-in-all lately, Barnes needs a rest to clear his head. It worked for Chapman.

 

.

 

It didn't work for Chapman.

 

His numbers since the 12 day "rest:"

 

1.136 OPS Against

 

7.72 ERA (Your favorite stat)

 

[moonslav59]

It's a skill. His skill (handling pressure) these days is not good. It happens with any kind of skill. He needs to rest and clear his head.

 

As ill said this is related with his mind. I agree.

 

You crack me up.

[iortiz]

So closing is pressure but middle relief isn’t?

 

Can any good RP close games consistently in large period of times?

[moonslav59]

Can any good RP close games consistently in large period of times?

 

We'll never know, because they are never given a long enough time, if they start off slowly.

[mvp 78]

There's no use in having 3 long relievers. One of Whitlock, Richards and Perez should be the closer for the time being.

 

It's not Perez.

 

I think Whitlock has the stones to close out games even though his future is in the rotation. All the advanced stats lean towards Whitlock (Exit Velo, xwOBA, xSLG, Barrel, etc.).

 

Richards' xwOBA since going to the pen has been great. His FB is about as straight as Schiraldi's, but he has a really good CB with an outstanding spin rate even after the crackdown. He's probably due for some regression with his bullpen numbers.

 

I think I'm ready for the Garrett Richards experience. Let's do it.

[notin]

Can any good RP close games consistently in large period of times?

 

I bet more of them can than you realize.

 

Q: What happens to closers who struggle?

A: They most often get moved to another role in the bullpen.

 

Q: What happens to middle relievers who struggle?

A: They often get either demoted to the minors, DFAd or flat out released.

 

I can’t recall a single closer who went right from the ninth inning role to the waiver wire (not counting the August waiver wire, which used to be used for different reasons). Can you?

 

So who really is under more pressure?

[mvp 78]

He's the obvious best choice, but his role, now is very valuable.

 

Who takes his current role? Richards? Perez? Sawamura?

 

One can argue the closer is the most important pen role, and I would not disagree, but messing with Whitlock, right now, is too scary for me.

 

Leave him where he has done so very well, for us.

 

I agree that a large part of me not wanting Whitlock to be a traditional closer is that I don't want to mess with him. Maybe you can have him do a couple of 2 inning saves here and there?

[notin]

There's no use in having 3 long relievers. One of Whitlock, Richards and Perez should be the closer for the time being.

 

It's not Perez.

 

I think Whitlock has the stones to close out games even though his future is in the rotation. All the advanced stats lean towards Whitlock (Exit Velo, xwOBA, xSLG, Barrel, etc.).

 

Richards' xwOBA since going to the pen has been great. His FB is about as straight as Schiraldi's, but he has a really good CB with an outstanding spin rate even after the crackdown. He's probably due for some regression with his bullpen numbers.

 

I think I'm ready for the Garrett Richards experience. Let's do it.

 

Richards is another good candidate. I’ve been suggesting him as an option for a couple years, but, really, only because I questioned his durability as a starter.…

[a700hitter]

I agree that a large part of me not wanting Whitlock to be a traditional closer is that I don't want to mess with him. Maybe you can have him do a couple of 2 inning saves here and there?

I like the 2 inning save idea.

[moonslav59]

There's no use in having 3 long relievers. One of Whitlock, Richards and Perez should be the closer for the time being.

 

It's not Perez.

 

I think Whitlock has the stones to close out games even though his future is in the rotation. All the advanced stats lean towards Whitlock (Exit Velo, xwOBA, xSLG, Barrel, etc.).

 

Richards' xwOBA since going to the pen has been great. His FB is about as straight as Schiraldi's, but he has a really good CB with an outstanding spin rate even after the crackdown. He's probably due for some regression with his bullpen numbers.

 

I think I'm ready for the Garrett Richards experience. Let's do it.

 

Perez should be DFA'd or used only in 7+ run difference games.

 

I can see the logic in thinking the downgrade from Whitlock to Richards as the top long man is not as great ass the upgrade at closer, and that the closer is more important, anyway, but I'm just worried about messing up Whitlock by changing his role and expectations, innings per outing and other factors.

 

If we mess Whitlock up, we are toast. (We maybe anyway, especially if we choose the wrong Barnes replacement.)

 

Here is where you wish they never did away with waiver wire deals.

[notin]

I agree that a large part of me not wanting Whitlock to be a traditional closer is that I don't want to mess with him. Maybe you can have him do a couple of 2 inning saves here and there?

 

Are you suggesting the Dreaded Closer By Committee? That’s never worked!!

 

Unless you count the three quarters of a century when every team did it and it worked out just fine…

[mvp 78]

I like the 2 inning save idea.

 

Dick Radatz approves.

[mvp 78]

Perez should be DFA'd or used only in 7+ run difference games.

 

I can see the logic in thinking the downgrade from Whitlock to Richards as the top long man is not as great ass the upgrade at closer, and that the closer is more important, anyway, but I'm just worried about messing up Whitlock by changing his role and expectations, innings per outing and other factors.

 

If we mess Whitlock up, we are toast. (We maybe anyway, especially if we choose the wrong Barnes replacement.)

 

Here is where you wish they never did away with waiver wire deals.

 

Dump Perez and call up either Feltman or Ort. See if you can get lightning in a bottle.

[moonslav59]

I like the 2 inning save idea.

 

How about using Whitlock and Houck every other day for 2 inning saves?

 

Ooops, then who starts every 5th game?

[mvp 78]

Are you suggesting the Dreaded Closer By Committee? That’s never worked!!

 

Unless you count the three quarters of a century when every team did it and it worked out just fine…

 

No, not closer by committee. Just that if the situation calls for it, you can have Whitlock out there for a longer appearance and staying in the game to finish. Richards would be the one inning guy. Whitlock is the fireman. Richards is the closer.

[mvp 78]

How about using Whitlock and Houck every other day for 2 inning saves?

 

Ooops, then who starts every 5th game?

 

If they went that direction, it'd be Seabold I guess.

[notin]

No, not closer by committee. Just that if the situation calls for it, you can have Whitlock out there for a longer appearance and staying in the game to finish. Richards would be the one inning guy. Whitlock is the fireman. Richards is the closer.

 

Exactly how many pitchers have to be involved before it’s a committee? The 2003 Red Sox closer “committee” had one guy closing (Chad Fox), but we still call it a committee.

 

The Rays have been using a closer committee all year. Not sure why people think it’s such a bad thing…

[moonslav59]

If they went that direction, it'd be Seabold I guess.

 

Maybe put Richards back in the rotation.

[notin]

Maybe put Richards back in the rotation.

 

Unless Richards gets the opportunity to close and is successful, he is not likely to be a member of the 2022 Red Sox…

[iortiz]

It didn't work for Chapman.

 

His numbers since the 12 day "rest:"

 

1.136 OPS Against

 

7.72 ERA (Your favorite stat)

 

SV% is actually the stat you have to look at when you rate a closer. Some closers close games cleanly, some not that much but if both have a 90 SV% or something close I don't care how they close.

 

How many blown saves does he have in July and August vs April, May and June?

 

Also ERA is a terrible stat for relievers and specially in short samples but still his ERA went form 11(June) to 4 (July and August). You are cherry picking.

 

Said that ERA is a solid stat in career samples but not my fav lol. I don't have a fav actually, it depends on the case.

[iortiz]

I bet more of them can than you realize.

 

Q: What happens to closers who struggle?

A: They most often get moved to another role in the bullpen.

 

Q: What happens to middle relievers who struggle?

A: They often get either demoted to the minors, DFAd or flat out released.

 

I can’t recall a single closer who went right from the ninth inning role to the waiver wire (not counting the August waiver wire, which used to be used for different reasons). Can you?

 

So who really is under more pressure?

 

 

Out there are fairly only a few number of closers who have been closing consistently this year (and years), and will likely keep their role. Only a few.

 

No, not all good RPs have the profile to close well and consistently in a year/years. Why? some just can't handle the pressure in the ninth. It's as simple as that.

[moonslav59]

SV% is actually the stat you have to look at when you rate a closer. Some closers close games cleanly, some not that much but if both have a 90 SV% or something close I don't care how they close.

 

How many blown saves does he have in July and August vs April, May and June?

 

Also ERA is a terrible stat for relievers and specially in short samples but still his ERA went form 11(June) to 4 (July and August). You are cherry picking.

 

Said that ERA is a solid stat in career samples but not my fav lol. I don't have a fav actually, it depends on the case.

 

You are saying he has done well since his time off?

 

That is wrong on every level. They had to yank him last night like we yanked Barnes, last night.

 

Own up. The guy as sucked in his 3 games after the "rest."

 

I'm cherry-picking?

 

I used the stat I always use (OPS against) and the one you used to bash Barnes (ERA). Now, you switch to Blown saves and SV%.

 

The only reason Chapman has few blown saves in August is because he was rested from 8/5 to 8/18.

 

He has pitched in 3 games and finished only 1. He sucked in 2 of 3, and not just by a little bit.

[moonslav59]

Out there are fairly only a few number of closers who have been closing consistently this year (and years), and will likely keep their role. Only a few.

 

No, not all good RPs have the profile to close well and consistently in a year/years. Why? some just can't handle the pressure in the ninth. It's as simple as that.

 

It's nice that baseball is so simple like that.

[mvp 78]

Exactly how many pitchers have to be involved before it’s a committee? The 2003 Red Sox closer “committee” had one guy closing (Chad Fox), but we still call it a committee.

 

The Rays have been using a closer committee all year. Not sure why people think it’s such a bad thing…

 

03 Sox just took too long to get to Scott Williamson.

 

Chad Fox only got 3 saves that year, none after April. Lyon got most of the saves until Kim fell out of the rotation and back into the pen. Kim was great as the closer in the regular season, but he just turned to a puddle in Game 4 and 5 of the 2001 WS.

 

The problem wasn't that a committee couldn't work, just that the committee wasn't very good. There were pieces of a good pen like Timlin, Embree (started season slow) and Kim at the start of the season, but they weren't in the right position to succeed. Williamson was really good down the stretch and into the playoffs. He just made that pen work a little better. It didn't help that the Sox signed Ramiro Mendoza and he just fell flat on his face after leaving the Bronx.