10-day suspension caper

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree with that in principle. But I certainly see why it happens.

 

Perfect example MLB rule 5.07© regarding pitch clock and pace of play…

 

When rules aren't enforced, the message is clear. The boys at the top don't care much about the rule.

[notin]

When rules aren't enforced, the message is clear. The boys at the top don't care much about the rule.

 

Which makes their ignorance of rule 5.07© very strange…

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree with that in principle. But I certainly see why it happens.

 

Perfect example MLB rule 5.07© regarding pitch clock and pace of play…

 

Seems pretty obvious they don't think it matters that much to the fans.

[Maxbialystock]

Why did you like it? It may have been entertaining, but I fail to see how it achieved anything except possibly making himself look like a nutjob.

 

I think Girardi over-reacted and had to pay the price of looking like a fool. I was delighted to learn that his target, who has in fact been very effective getting hitters out and being paid handsomely to do so, either wasn't using foreign substances or learned very quickly how to pitch without spotrac or whatever.

 

Or put it this way. The Commish gave everyone fair warning he was going to do this, and then he did what he said he would do--via inspections by the umpires. So far, it sure looks like a problem solved in an efficacious manner.

 

But not effectively enough for one manager. He challenged not only the pitcher, but also the umpires and the Commish--and lost.

[notin]

Seems pretty obvious they don't think it matters that much to the fans.

 

Then why did they enact three new (and less effective) rules to achieve the same result?

[Maxbialystock]

I disagree with that in principle. But I certainly see why it happens.

 

Perfect example MLB rule 5.07© regarding pitch clock and pace of play…

 

Exactly.

[Bellhorn04]

Then why did they enact three new (and less effective) rules to achieve the same result?

 

No idea. Although I would like the 3 batter rule even if had no effect on speed of play.

[notin]

No idea. Although I would like the 3 batter rule even if had no effect on speed of play.

 

Probably for the best then, because I don’t think it has any effect on pace of play…

[dgalehouse]

If you thought MLB couldn't get any dumber , last night we had the comical spectacle of an ump checking a position player, pitching in a blowout , looking for illegal substances. Of course , he didn't find any.

[Bellhorn04]

Probably for the best then, because I don’t think it has any effect on pace of play…

 

Logically speaking, I don't see how it can do anything but make games a little shorter on average, because there are fewer pitching changes. But I'm sure the difference isn't a big one.

[notin]

Logically speaking, I don't see how it can do anything but make games a little shorter on average, because there are fewer pitching changes. But I'm sure the difference isn't a big one.

 

Only a little shorter in very specific instances. Not like every game before the rule change involved bringing in a reliever to face 1 or 2 hitters with less than 2 outs….

[mvp 78]

@jaysonst

Hector Santiago is appealing his 10-game suspension stemming from his sticky-substance ejection Sunday

 

His challenge: Rule says that *any* ejection carries automatic suspension if umpires find anything sticky.

 

So there was no MLB testing to determine the substance on his glove.

 

@jaysonst

From MLB's announcement:

 

"The umpiring crew shall be the sole judge as to whether the rules have been violated."

 

So once the umpires determine there is reason to eject him, the suspension is automatic.

 

[Maxbialystock]

@jaysonst

Hector Santiago is appealing his 10-game suspension stemming from his sticky-substance ejection Sunday

 

His challenge: Rule says that *any* ejection carries automatic suspension if umpires find anything sticky.

 

So there was no MLB testing to determine the substance on his glove.

 

@jaysonst

From MLB's announcement:

 

"The umpiring crew shall be the sole judge as to whether the rules have been violated."

 

So once the umpires determine there is reason to eject him, the suspension is automatic.

 

 

That would seem to settle that. Good sources.

[Maxbialystock]

If you thought MLB couldn't get any dumber , last night we had the comical spectacle of an ump checking a position player, pitching in a blowout , looking for illegal substances. Of course , he didn't find any.

 

Finally, an advocate for letting pitchers continue to doctor up the ball any way and as often as they want to.

[Maxbialystock]

Seems pretty obvious they don't think it matters that much to the fans.

 

I think you're right, but am surprised. I know the WEEI guys regularly dun slow pitchers. They also point out that Rays team policy is for their pitchers to slow things down.

 

And there are other teams or just individual players who believe that it's advantageous to keep stepping out of the batter's box if the pitcher is pitching both quickly and effectively.

[Kimmi]

I think Girardi over-reacted and had to pay the price of looking like a fool. I was delighted to learn that his target, who has in fact been very effective getting hitters out and being paid handsomely to do so, either wasn't using foreign substances or learned very quickly how to pitch without spotrac or whatever.

 

Or put it this way. The Commish gave everyone fair warning he was going to do this, and then he did what he said he would do--via inspections by the umpires. So far, it sure looks like a problem solved in an efficacious manner.

 

But not effectively enough for one manager. He challenged not only the pitcher, but also the umpires and the Commish--and lost.

 

I don't know if this is Richards making more excuses or not, but he said that he was unaware of this message from the commissioner. It seems that the warning from Manfred might not have been communicated too well to pitchers.

[Kimmi]

@jaysonst

Hector Santiago is appealing his 10-game suspension stemming from his sticky-substance ejection Sunday

 

His challenge: Rule says that *any* ejection carries automatic suspension if umpires find anything sticky.

 

So there was no MLB testing to determine the substance on his glove.

 

@jaysonst

From MLB's announcement:

 

"The umpiring crew shall be the sole judge as to whether the rules have been violated."

 

So once the umpires determine there is reason to eject him, the suspension is automatic.

 

 

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that Santiago's glove was not tested. Why leave this up to the discretion of the umpires, which then leads to the pitcher appealing, when it should be simple enough to test the glove to see whether there was a foreign substance on it or not? Testing the glove would leave no room for uncertainty and would eliminate the need for an appeal. It's not only a pitcher's reputation and suspension on the line, but the rest of the team is affected by the possible suspension as well since they are not able to replace the player.

[Maxbialystock]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that Santiago's glove was not tested. Why leave this up to the discretion of the umpires, which then leads to the pitcher appealing, when it should be simple enough to test the glove to see whether there was a foreign substance on it or not? Testing the glove would leave no room for uncertainty and would eliminate the need for an appeal. It's not only a pitcher's reputation and suspension on the line, but the rest of the team is affected by the possible suspension as well since they are not able to replace the player.

 

Testing the glove might not be as simple as you say. If it was done after he finished pitching, then time was not an issue, but of course then you also get into following chain of custody procedures just like the police have to. The umpire would have to hand the glove over to a trusted agent, almost certainly one paid by MLB, who would have to provide one for every single MLB game. If the handover and subsequent testing are not done to the most exacting police standards, any decent lawyer--almost certainly paid for by the MLBPA--could easily get the charge thrown out.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that Santiago's glove was not tested. Why leave this up to the discretion of the umpires, which then leads to the pitcher appealing, when it should be simple enough to test the glove to see whether there was a foreign substance on it or not? Testing the glove would leave no room for uncertainty and would eliminate the need for an appeal. It's not only a pitcher's reputation and suspension on the line, but the rest of the team is affected by the possible suspension as well since they are not able to replace the player.

 

 

That’s actually how every rule in baseball is enforced. A lot of stuff people think are baseball rules (e.g. tie goes to the runner, fielder cannot drop the ball after making a tag) are not actual rules. They are completely left up to umpire discretion…

[mvp 78]

That’s actually how every rule in baseball is enforced. A lot of stuff people think are baseball rules (e.g. tie goes to the runner, fielder cannot drop the ball after making a tag) are not actual rules. They are completely left up to umpire discretion…

 

"Suspensions" should not be left up to the umpires. Kicking a pitcher out of the game, fine.

[dgalehouse]

Manfred : " Mr. Santiago is being suspended for ten games because the umpire noticed a substance in his glove as he left the mound. Now , we don't know what the substance was , nor do we want to find out , but the umpire evidently didn't like the look of it. Good enough for me. Ten days. " ........ Okay, that sounds perfectly fair.

[Maxbialystock]

"Suspensions" should not be left up to the umpires. Kicking a pitcher out of the game, fine.

 

If they are not left to the umpire, MLB incurs a massive expense in order to be able to test gloves with the same reliability and custody procedures the police use.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Since umpires have this authority, and I fully support giving umpires this authority as MLB must stop the Gerrit Coles of the world from cheating the game, I would drop the idea of using robo-umpires in the future. Just forget about it. I would rather have a human umpire calling balls and strikes, and thus more in tune with what the pitcher is doing, more likely to detect when a pitcher might be using something illegal.

 

The commissioner has done an excellent job with this so far and deserves praise. His next move: reject the idea of using robo-umps in the future.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Nick]

I bet if you make the suspension for 1 year, no one would cheat. Edited July 2, 2021 by Nick

[Maxbialystock]

Since umpires have this authority, and I fully support giving umpires this authority as MLB must stop the Gerrit Coles of the world from cheating the game, I would drop the idea of using robo-umpires in the future. Just forget about it. I would rather have a human umpire calling balls and strikes, and thus more in tune with what the pitcher is doing, more likely to detect when a pitcher might be using something illegal.

 

The commissioner has done an excellent job with this so far and deserves praise. His next move: reject the idea of using robo-umps in the future.

 

No, no, no. The whole point about robo-umps is to emasculate umpires because, well, they're human and can make mistakes. MLB is all about perfection. Thus the computer-generated defenses, the computer-generated data on pitcher and hitter tendencies, the computer-generated "rules" about when a pitcher, no matter how well he is pitching, must be pulled from the game, etc.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't know if this is Richards making more excuses or not, but he said that he was unaware of this message from the commissioner. It seems that the warning from Manfred might not have been communicated too well to pitchers.

 

Gotta believe Richards, who is a real stand-up guy--except when he whines, whines, whines.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

No, no, no. The whole point about robo-umps is to emasculate umpires because, well, they're human and can make mistakes. MLB is all about perfection. Thus the computer-generated defenses, the computer-generated data on pitcher and hitter tendencies, the computer-generated "rules" about when a pitcher, no matter how well he is pitching, must be pulled from the game, etc.

 

I guess you could employ a robo-ump behind the plate calling balls and strikes, and when the robo-ump detects a significant increase in spin rates from the prior inning, an alarm would go off and the pitcher would be checked. You would start off the game checking the pitcher in the first inning, and wouldn't check again unless the robo-ump detects something unusual. Dammit, this is a good idea, maybe even a great idea!

[Kimmi]

Testing the glove might not be as simple as you say. If it was done after he finished pitching, then time was not an issue, but of course then you also get into following chain of custody procedures just like the police have to. The umpire would have to hand the glove over to a trusted agent, almost certainly one paid by MLB, who would have to provide one for every single MLB game. If the handover and subsequent testing are not done to the most exacting police standards, any decent lawyer--almost certainly paid for by the MLBPA--could easily get the charge thrown out.

 

Fair enough. I don't think the process would have to be quite as elaborate as what you're suggesting, but fair enough.

 

I still think that they should test the gloves.

[Kimmi]

That’s actually how every rule in baseball is enforced. A lot of stuff people think are baseball rules (e.g. tie goes to the runner, fielder cannot drop the ball after making a tag) are not actual rules. They are completely left up to umpire discretion…

 

I get that a lot is left to the discretion of the umpires. This is a different situation, IMO. It's something that can be proven or disproven and doesn't have to be left to the discretion of the umpires.

 

MLB does regular drug testing. They should be able to test gloves.

[Kimmi]

Gotta believe Richards, who is a real stand-up guy--except when he whines, whines, whines.

 

It will be interesting to see how his outing goes tonight.

 

Cora has stated that his spin rates are still very good. He still has best spin rate in MLB on his curveball and the spin rate on his fastball is in the top 4%. IMO, Richards has to get out of his own head.