Chris Sale needs Tommy John Surgery

[a700hitter]

People can differ on this issue, but a surgery needed for you to perform your livelihood is not elective surgery unless you are intending to retire, and maybe not even then, because if this issue isn't addressed with surgery and the tears heal incorrectly, your normal functioning could be permanently impaired. This wasn't a face-lift, a tummy tuck, a gastric bypass, or even a knee or hip replacement. This directly affected his livelihood and the normal function of his arm. Imo, it wasn't elective.

[Thunder]

Kimmi, all I'm saying here is this: Pretend you're a MLB pitcher for a second. You're told that your UCL is busted and you need Tommy John. You could either wait 6 months (which I think is exaggerating btw), miss all of 2020 and 2021, or do it now, and have a chance to pitch for a bulk of the 2021 season. You could either lose 2 years of service time, and have your next contract be based off people not knowing what you are able to do post-op, and sign for far less money, or you could do it now, come back in June 2021 and pitch your way into a respectable contract.

 

I'm not saying it's right to be selfish. I'm saying baseball is a business, and everybody involved is in it for the money. You think people are saying things because they have a vested interest in it? That's absolutely true. They have money at stake. How would you like it if this were 1990 right now, not 2020, and you as a high school teacher would really be SOL right now and not able to work at all?

[notin]

Hmm.. You're playing both sides of the fence on this issue. Do you think S's surgery was acceptable.. .or not?

 

I think it was wrong, but for the message it sends out. This singular surgery itself will ultimately be meaningless in the pandemic.

 

While along the same line, I would rate this below the OKC Thunder testing 58 players and employees at a time when even the CDC could only garner up 77 tests for the remainder of the people in this country...

Edited March 28, 2020 by notin

[a700hitter]

I think it was wrong, but for the message it sends out. This singular surgery itself will ultimately be meaningless in the pandemic...

We wouldn't want to give the wrong impression to people about money talking.

[notin]

People can differ on this issue, but a surgery needed for you to perform your livelihood is not elective surgery unless you are intending to retire, and maybe not even then, because if this issue isn't addressed with surgery and the tears heal incorrectly, your normal functioning could be permanently impaired. This wasn't a face-lift, a tummy tuck, a gastric bypass, or even a knee or hip replacement. This directly affected his livelihood and the normal function of his arm. Imo, it wasn't elective.

 

The definition of elective surgery is “surgery that is performed in advance because it does not involve a medical emergency.”

 

Nothing to do with a person’s career...

[Thunder]

The definition of elective surgery is “surgery that is performed in advance because it does not involve a medical emergency.”

 

Nothing to do with a person’s career...

 

Alright, so then the next time you need a surgery that will severely impact your ability to perform your career, tell your doctors you're not interested

[notin]

We wouldn't want to give the wrong impression to people about money talking.

 

For hospital attention? It shouldn’t matter. Whoever bleeds the most or breathes the least should be at the front of the line.

 

 

Let me guess. When you watched “The Titanic”, you were rooting for Billy Zane...

[notin]

Alright, so then the next time you need a surgery that will severely impact your ability to perform your career, tell your doctors you're not interested

 

If all the doctors in my area were attending to a pandemic, I wouldn’t even be given the opportunity to decline the surgery...

[Thunder]

If all the doctors in my area were attending to a pandemic, I wouldn’t even be given the opportunity to decline the surgery...

 

So then how do you know if the Red Sox or any doctor has come out and told Sale that he can't have the surgery? Not to even mention how he feels about it

[a700hitter]

The definition of elective surgery is “surgery that is performed in advance because it does not involve a medical emergency.”

 

Nothing to do with a person’s career...

And somehow it was performed. I have no problem with it, and an orthopedic surgeon could make the case that it was an emergency because if it healed wrong it could result in irreversible damage.

 

What qualifies as an emergency? If I have a bullet lodged in my leg that will not kill me, is it elective surgery to have it removed? Am I supposed to let it heal over and walk around with the bullet in my leg? With these TJ's, the worst case scenario is that it is a grey area. It really shouldn't cause anyone any angst, but people always need to be pissed off about something.

[notin]

So then how do you know if the Red Sox or any doctor has come out and told Sale that he can't have the surgery? Not to even mention how he feels about it

 

I’d hate it, because I know he’d be out until 2022. But I would certainly understand why...

[Thunder]

I’d hate it, because I know he’d be out until 2022. But I would certainly understand why...

 

Missed my point completely. I'm saying that nobody has told Sale he can't have it, at least not that we know of. I'm saying let the doctors decide if it's essential. Who made you god of medicine?

[a700hitter]

For hospital attention? It shouldn’t matter. Whoever bleeds the most or breathes the least should be at the front of the line.

 

 

Let me guess. When you watched “The Titanic”, you were rooting for Billy Zane...

I didn't say how I felt about money talking, so don't project any emotion onto me. I am just pointing out that is fruitless goal to worry about sending the message that money talks. It always has and it always will, in every society since their was money. I am just acknowledging reality.

Edited March 28, 2020 by a700hitter

[notin]

And somehow it was performed. I have no problem with it, and an orthopedic surgeon could make the case that it was an emergency because if it healed wrong it could result in irreversible damage.

 

What qualifies as an emergency? If I have a bullet lodged in my leg that will not kill me, is it elective surgery to have it removed? Am I supposed to let it heal over and walk around with the bullet in my leg? With these TJ's, the worst case scenario is that it is a grey area. It really shouldn't cause anyone any angst, but people always need to be pissed off about something.

 

 

I think you’re stretching the definition of an emergency. Before Tommy John, this type of tear was an immediate career ending for numerous pitchers, all of whom moved on and did not starve to death.

 

We all get this surgery will likely be inconsequential. We all even want Sale to get back on the mound ASAP. But there is a definition of an elective surgery that neither of us wrote, but it absolutely applies to Syndergaard’s, and trying to personalize that scenario on me doesn’t change that fact. (And my wife had a surgery canceled this past week.)

[a700hitter]

Missed my point completely. I'm saying that nobody has told Sale he can't have it, at least not that we know of. I'm saying let the doctors decide if it's essential. Who made you god of medicine?

Exactly, I don't think a surgeon, a hospital or the Red Sox would violate a Governor's executive order because Chris Sale asked. It had to be approved.

[notin]

Missed my point completely. I'm saying that nobody has told Sale he can't have it, at least not that we know of. I'm saying let the doctors decide if it's essential. Who made you god of medicine?

 

Actually I simply misread your question.

 

As for Sale’s pending surgery, I’ve heard nothing since MLBTR published the article...

[notin]

Exactly, I don't think a surgeon, a hospital or the Red Sox would violate a Governor's executive order because Chris Sale asked. It had to be approved.

 

In NY definitely right now.

 

Didn’t he go to a Florida for it?

[Bellhorn04]

If Syndergaard's surgery should not have been performed, the hospital and the surgeons are as much at fault as he is, if not more. They could have said no.

[a700hitter]

I think you’re stretching the definition of an emergency. Before Tommy John, this type of tear was an immediate career ending for numerous pitchers, all of whom moved on and did not starve to death.

 

We all get this surgery will likely be inconsequential. We all even want Sale to get back on the mound ASAP. But there is a definition of an elective surgery that neither of us wrote, but it absolutely applies to Syndergaard’s, and trying to personalize that scenario on me doesn’t change that fact. (And my wife had a surgery canceled this past week.)

Yeah, before the surgery, they retired and moved on and led there lives often with an arm that did not function properly. Johnny Unitas elbow healed improperly to the point where later in life his right hand was like a claw and he couldn't even hold a pen. Just because 50 years ago the surgical procedure didn't exist doesn't mean that it isn't a medical necessity today and in fact an emergency to preserve a career. They didn't have angiograms and heart stent procedures 50 years ago either, you went home and took nitroglycerin when you got a chest pain.

[S5Dewey]

I think it was wrong, but for the message it sends out. This singular surgery itself will ultimately be meaningless in the pandemic.

 

While along the same line, I would rate this below the OKC Thunder testing 58 players and employees at a time when even the CDC could only garner up 77 tests for the remainder of the people in this country...

 

Thanks. We're on the same page with this.

[notin]

Yeah, before the surgery, they retired and moved on and led there lives often with an arm that did not function properly. Johnny Unitas elbow healed improperly to the point where later in life his right hand was like a claw and he couldn't even hold a pen. Just because 50 years ago the surgical procedure didn't exist doesn't mean that it isn't a medical necessity today and in fact an emergency to preserve a career. They didn't have angiograms and heart stent procedures 50 years ago either, you went home and took nitroglycerin when you got a chest pain.

 

Regardless, I provided a definition of elective surgery. I will admit I didn’t look exhaustively. You said it was not an elective surgery, but that was in direct conflict with the definition. So until you provide another definition that does include this type of surgery (and from a more credible source would be nice), it is an elective surgery. You’re welcome to challenge the definition I provided with another that does allow for TJ surgery..

 

As I grabbed the first Google match, naturally my definition came from Wikipedia, who had a sole sourced article. Not always the best authority. Medicine.net has a simpler definition as “surgery planned in advance by choice of either the patient or doctor.” Again, nothing about career-threatening. And essentially the same idea..,

Edited March 28, 2020 by notin

[notin]

Thanks. We're on the same page with this.

 

That settles it.

 

If S5 and I agree on something, it has to be correct. We normally can’t even agree that the sky is red...

[a700hitter]

Regardless, I provided a definition of elective surgery. I will admit I didn’t look exhaustively. You said it was not an elective surgery, but that was in direct conflict with the definition. So until you provide another definition that does include this type of surgery (and from a more credible source would be nice), it is an elective surgery. You’re welcome to challenge the definition I provided with another that does allow for TJ surgery..

 

As I grabbed the first Google match, naturally my definition came from Wikipedia, who had a sole sourced article. Not always the best authority. Medicine.net has a simpler definition as “surgery planned in advance by choice of either the patient or doctor.” Again, nothing about career-threatening. And essentially the same idea..,

You probably need to know what definition the hospital uses.

[notin]

You probably need to know what definition the hospital uses.

 

 

Since I doubt the definition varies much from hospital to hospital, I am absolutely willing to accept any definition Jacko brings to the table...

[a700hitter]

Since I doubt the definition varies much from hospital to hospital, I am absolutely willing to accept any definition Jacko brings to the table...

We will have to see if their guidelines track the Wikipedia definition.

[notin]

We will have to see if their guidelines track the Wikipedia definition.

 

It was a pretty vague one that matched medicine.net. But I imagine the bulk of the medical industry defines it the same...

[Bellhorn04]

It was a pretty vague one that matched medicine.net. But I imagine the bulk of the medical industry defines it the same...

 

But as 700hitter suggested, the word 'emergency' is subject to interpretation. Most of the people who show up at the emergency department of hospitals are not in life-threatening situations, but they get treated.

 

A hospital spokesperson said Syndergaard's TJS was essential surgery. If people want to question that hospital's definition, then have at them.

[mvp 78]

Money talks.

[Bellhorn04]

Money talks.

 

Right. But maybe we should be looking at this more from the hospital's side. They were probably very keen to do this surgery and get paid for it. They could probably use the money.

[Kimmi]

Considering that many pitchers come back a shell of themselves after TJS, I'd say it does, and I don't know how you can think that it doesn't

 

It might affect their total career salary. It will not make or break them. These guys are already millionaires.