Chris Sale needs Tommy John Surgery

[notin]

What are you suggesting? CDC officials going door to door to test the poor?

 

No I’m suggesting the CDC should have had MUCH GREATER access and ability to test individuals who wanted to be tested than any single pro sports team....

[Thunder]

No I’m suggesting the CDC should have had MUCH GREATER access and ability to test individuals who wanted to be tested than any single pro sports team....

 

That goes back to your argument that everybody should have been more proactive. Nobody was adequately prepared, because nobody could see the scale of this pandemic coming. And complain all you want, but that's the way the world works. The wealthy get better opportunities and better access to key resources. I don't like it either, but that's the way it works. If everybody got the same access to the same resources, there would be no motivation for anybody to work. Now we're talking socialism here

[notin]

That goes back to your argument that everybody should have been more proactive. Nobody was adequately prepared, because nobody could see the scale of this pandemic coming. And complain all you want, but that's the way the world works. The wealthy get better opportunities and better access to key resources. I don't like it either, but that's the way it works. If everybody got the same access to the same resources, there would be no motivation for anybody to work. Now we're talking socialism here

 

That the wealthy get better access is exactly the point I am making, and exactly what Syndergaard is proving as well...

[Thunder]

That the wealthy get better access is exactly the point I am making, and exactly what Syndergaard is proving as well...

 

Yes, I completely agree with that point. What I am saying is that it's just the natural progression of things in society. The wealthy get better access because they can afford to. You can't change that, so I don't understand why you're complaining about it

[notin]

That goes back to your argument that everybody should have been more proactive. Nobody was adequately prepared, because nobody could see the scale of this pandemic coming. And complain all you want, but that's the way the world works. The wealthy get better opportunities and better access to key resources. I don't like it either, but that's the way it works. If everybody got the same access to the same resources, there would be no motivation for anybody to work. Now we're talking socialism here

 

Probably not the ideal place for socialism chatter, but socialism itself is actually defined as “community control of production, distribution and exchange.” While it obviously gets more complicated on a grander scale, it’s actually supposed to be all about business. Not sure how it got refined to meAn “government pays you to stay home and sleep” sort of thing that gets bandied about nowadays...

[notin]

Yes, I completely agree with that point. What I am saying is that it's just the natural progression of things in society. The wealthy get better access because they can afford to. You can't change that, so I don't understand why you're complaining about it

 

Actually others were making that point in a discussion of Syndergaard’s TJ. I was just providing supplemental proof...

[S5Dewey]

Yes, I completely agree with that point. What I am saying is that it's just the natural progression of things in society. The wealthy get better access because they can afford to. You can't change that, so I don't understand why you're complaining about it

 

Because if you think it's unfair and remain quiet about it you're perpetuating the status-quo. Nothing gets changed unless someone complains about it. Do you think women got the right to vote after no one complained about their not being able to vote ? Do you think slavery was abolished after no one complained about it? Those are extreme examples but it happens every day in real life that things get changed because people complained about the status quo and other people picked up the cause until the change was made.

[Bellhorn04]

Another key statement from that article I linked this morning:

 

A spokesperson for The Hospital for Special Surgery in Florida where Syndergaard’s surgery will take place told the paper: “The procedure in question—acute ligament injury with progressively worsening ulnar nerve symptoms—is defined as essential care.”

 

The crux of this is what is defined as "essential".

[Thunder]

Because if you think it's unfair and remain quiet about it you're perpetuating the status-quo. Nothing gets changed unless someone complains about it. Do you think women got the right to vote after no one complained about their not being able to vote ? Do you think slavery was abolished after no one complained about it? Those are extreme examples but it happens every day in real life that things get changed because people complained about the status quo and other people picked up the cause until the change was made.

 

While astute examples, I don't think that those can necessarily be applied here. For people to be rich, someone has to be poor. It's not like for someone to be able to vote, somebody else has to not be able to vote. As many people can vote as they want, and in fact, the more the merrier. Not everybody can be rich, because than in comparison, everybody would be poor at the same time, since everybody would have the same amount of wealth. I think society would be worse off if everybody had exactly the same resources. There would be no motivation to do anything. We need the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest sort of culture that currently exists. You don't like being poor? Well then work harder. I am a proponent of giving the less fortunate a chance to prove themselves. If we should make a change to the "system" it should be to make it so hard work gets more directly rewarded, because there are plenty of hardworking people that deserve better. In that system, the people that are rich would have earned it, and the people that are poor would have also earned it, by being lazier.

[Thunder]

Another key statement from that article I linked this morning:

 

A spokesperson for The Hospital for Special Surgery in Florida where Syndergaard’s surgery will take place told the paper: “The procedure in question—acute ligament injury with progressively worsening ulnar nerve symptoms—is defined as essential care.”

 

The crux of this is what is defined as "essential".

 

It's also "essential" for their profession, livelihood, and sole source of income

[a700hitter]

While astute examples, I don't think that those can necessarily be applied here. For people to be rich, someone has to be poor. It's not like for someone to be able to vote, somebody else has to not be able to vote. As many people can vote as they want, and in fact, the more the merrier. Not everybody can be rich, because than in comparison, everybody would be poor at the same time, since everybody would have the same amount of wealth. I think society would be worse off if everybody had exactly the same resources. There would be no motivation to do anything. We need the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest sort of culture that currently exists. You don't like being poor? Well then work harder. I am a proponent of giving the less fortunate a chance to prove themselves. If we should make a change to the "system" it should be to make it so hard work gets more directly rewarded, because there are plenty of hardworking people that deserve better. In that system, the people that are rich would have earned it, and the people that are poor would have also earned it, by being lazier.

A society that fights for equality of opportunity is more fair than a society that insures equality of outcome.

[Thunder]

A society that fights for equality of opportunity is more fair than a society that insures equality of outcome.

 

Exactly. I believe my argument was hard to follow, and I was heading down a path of right-wing radicalism before I honed it in. In my life, nothing has really been handed to me. I've had to earn everything. Sure, there are people less fortunate than me. Some work hard to move up in the world, some don't. But, what kills me, especially in the educational system, is how people like me can usually be overshadowed by the "popular" type, or most frat guys, some of whom pay other people to do work for them and then do better than me on various assignments, and sometimes exams. That's the injustice I was targeting, but my point about wage equality not solving anything still stands.

[S5Dewey]

...I am a proponent of giving the less fortunate a chance to prove themselves. If we should make a change to the "system" it should be to make it so hard work gets more directly rewarded, because there are plenty of hardworking people that deserve better. In that system, the people that are rich would have earned it, and the people that are poor would have also earned it, by being lazier.

 

I think most of us who aren't "rich" would agree that the less fortunate need a chance to prove themselves. I also think that they do, but only to a point. Do you think Jared Cushner and Hunter Biden got where they are by working harder? Of course not. It's the privilege of wealth and connections that perpetuate the offspring of the rich being privileged.

 

Not to be a smart-ass about this, but isn't that what you were complaining about? -People complaining about things they can't do anything about?

[Thunder]

Not to be a smart-ass about this, but isn't that what you were complaining about? -People complaining about things they can't do anything about?

 

Probably. I don't even remember at this point, but I'll admit when I'm wrong. There's a lot of stuff I don't know, and I only try to form my opinions off of my own personal experiences. Since those aren't as extensive as the rest of you, there are many holes in a lot of my arguments that will close over time. It's all good

[Kimmi]

Key line from that article"

 

"That perception is both accurate and inaccurate. Three professors of epidemiology who spoke with The Daily Beast explained that Syndergaard and Sale are, in all likelihood, not impinging on the ability of health-care professionals to respond to the virus, nor are they diverting resources. "

 

Of course they are diverting resources. Are the doctors who are performing the surgeries using masks, gowns, gloves, etc.? Not to mention everyone on the surgical staff. This is the very reason why the governors of some states are banning non-essential surgeries. There is also the added and unnecessary risk of spreading the disease.

 

Saying that one surgery is okay because it doesn't make a difference is like a person saying that he or she is not going to vote because his or her one vote doesn't matter. Every vote counts. Every surgery counts.

 

This is the epitome of selfishness and self-entitlement. The rules don't apply to me.

[Kimmi]

I'm with you here, Kimmi. In reading the article from the link I see very few people defending the surgeries who don't have some kind of a vested interest in their position.

 

Exactly. People trying to justify something that isn't justifiable for personal gain.

[Kimmi]

Another key statement from that article I linked this morning:

 

A spokesperson for The Hospital for Special Surgery in Florida where Syndergaard’s surgery will take place told the paper: “The procedure in question—acute ligament injury with progressively worsening ulnar nerve symptoms—is defined as essential care.”

 

The crux of this is what is defined as "essential".

 

As Dewey mentioned, the person who made that quote is a spokesperson for someone with a vested interest in doing the surgery.

 

In many cases, Sale's included, the first course of treatment is to shut the pitcher down for a period of time, maybe with some kind of other treatment like injections. Sale has been putting the surgery off since late last season. Are you going to tell me that the surgery is now essential? I'm not buying it.

 

From the player's personal standpoint, this is the opportune time to have the surgery done. That's what it boils down to.

[Thunder]

Of course they are diverting resources. Are the doctors who are performing the surgeries using masks, gowns, gloves, etc.? Not to mention everyone on the surgical staff. This is the very reason why the governors of some states are banning non-essential surgeries. There is also the added and unnecessary risk of spreading the disease.

 

Saying that one surgery is okay because it doesn't make a difference is like a person saying that he or she is not going to vote because his or her one vote doesn't matter. Every vote counts. Every surgery counts.

 

This is the epitome of selfishness and self-entitlement. The rules don't apply to me.

 

Ouch. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

[Kimmi]

It's also "essential" for their profession, livelihood, and sole source of income

 

Postponing the surgery for 6 months is not going to make or break the likes of Sale and Syndegaard.

[Thunder]

Postponing the surgery for 6 months is not going to make or break the likes of Sale and Syndegaard.

 

That I disagree with, as far as contracts are concerned. It can make all the difference in length of deal and amount per year

[notin]

Exactly.

 

Neal ElAttrache is an orthopedic surgeon specializing in sports medicine. He isn’t very likely to do much in the wake of the COVID pandemic, although he wouldn’t be complete useless in that capacity. He did use valuable surgical PPE to perform this surgery. But it’s not like we are one N95 mask away from wiping out the corona virus. In the grand scheme, this surgery was inconsequential.

 

But it also sends the wrong message. While people are struggling for their survival against this pandemic, and doctors and nurses and placed in the direct line of fire with rapidly dwindling resources, this high profile surgery gets performed and, along with the OKC Thunder testing, sends a huge message to most of America that they truly are steerage who get to fight for remaining life boat seats once the “important people” are properly taken care of...

[Elktonnick]

Exactly.

 

Neal ElAttrache is an orthopedic surgeon specializing in sports medicine. He isn’t very likely to do much in the wake of the COVID pandemic, although he wouldn’t be complete useless in that capacity. He did use valuable surgical PPE to perform this surgery. But it’s not like we are one N95 mask away from wiping out the corona virus. In the grand scheme, this surgery was inconsequential.

 

But it also sends the wrong message. While people are struggling for their survival against this pandemic, and doctors and nurses and placed in the direct line of fire with rapidly dwindling resources, this high profile surgery gets performed and, along with the OKC Thunder testing, sends a huge message to most of America that they truly are steerage who get to fight for remaining life boat seats once the “important people” are properly taken care of...

 

Considering the suffering that the people of New York are enduring and to a slightly lesser extent those in the rest of the country, this isn't a very smart thing either are doing. MLB may not be able to stop it legally but they certainly should issue some kind of statement expressing their disapproval.

[Kimmi]

Exactly.

 

Neal ElAttrache is an orthopedic surgeon specializing in sports medicine. He isn’t very likely to do much in the wake of the COVID pandemic, although he wouldn’t be complete useless in that capacity. He did use valuable surgical PPE to perform this surgery. But it’s not like we are one N95 mask away from wiping out the corona virus. In the grand scheme, this surgery was inconsequential.

 

But it also sends the wrong message. While people are struggling for their survival against this pandemic, and doctors and nurses and placed in the direct line of fire with rapidly dwindling resources, this high profile surgery gets performed and, along with the OKC Thunder testing, sends a huge message to most of America that they truly are steerage who get to fight for remaining life boat seats once the “important people” are properly taken care of...

 

If everyone who wants to have elective surgery now has this type of thinking, is that okay?

[Kimmi]

That I disagree with, as far as contracts are concerned. It can make all the difference in length of deal and amount per year

 

It is not going to make or break the likes of Sale or Syndegaard.

[Kimmi]

Considering the suffering that the people of New York are enduring and to a slightly lesser extent those in the rest of the country, this isn't a very smart thing either are doing. MLB may not be able to stop it legally but they certainly should issue some kind of statement expressing their disapproval.

 

Once again, yup.

[Thunder]

It is not going to make or break the likes of Sale or Syndegaard.

 

Considering that many pitchers come back a shell of themselves after TJS, I'd say it does, and I don't know how you can think that it doesn't

[notin]

If everyone who wants to have elective surgery now has this type of thinking, is that okay?

 

No..

 

But did this one surgery make any real difference? Also no.

 

But it does convey the message that people with money will get the medicines they want while the rest of us scrounge for ventilators and rubbing alcohol...

[notin]

Considering the suffering that the people of New York are enduring and to a slightly lesser extent those in the rest of the country, this isn't a very smart thing either are doing. MLB may not be able to stop it legally but they certainly should issue some kind of statement expressing their disapproval.

 

My point, but without Titanic imagery...

[S5Dewey]

No..

 

But did this one surgery make any real difference? Also no.

 

But it does convey the message that people with money will get the medicines they want while the rest of us scrounge for ventilators and rubbing alcohol...

 

Hmm.. You're playing both sides of the fence on this issue. Do you think S's surgery was acceptable.. .or not?

[notin]

Considering that many pitchers come back a shell of themselves after TJS, I'd say it does, and I don't know how you can think that it doesn't

 

But the impact on them post-baseball - the much larger part of their lives - will be nothing. TJ surgeries last on average 600 IP or about 3 years. That might be the length of the career for both.

 

Chris Sale has a net worth of about $24 million, and is owed about 5 times that much still on his contract. Syndergaard, still in his arbitration years, is already worth $15 mill. If neither player ever picked up a baseball again, they’d both be more than set for life...