2019 Trade Deadline Thread

[notin]

Reportedly Toronto wanted Deivi Garcia and Estevan Florial for Stroman. Did the Yankees think Stroman should cost less?

 

 

Apparently this has been covered. But it was a mistake for Cashman to not pull the trigger if this was the case...

[notin]

Apparently they did because they gave him away for practically nothing

 

 

Which the Yankees didn’t know they would do at the time.

 

Bottom line is Garcia and Flovial aren’t even great prospects. It’s not like they wanted Gore and Urias. Neither Garcia nor Flovial was a pre-season Top 100 in BA, and Flovial is struggling at Round 2 of A ball. Like most prospects, he’s looking more and more like he won’t amount to much.

 

So it was basically Garcia for Stroman. How is that a deal you pass on?

[jacksonianmarch]

Garcia is a top 25 prospect right now. He made every midseason top 25 list. I’d have no problem moving Florial for Stroman. I have a problem moving Garcia for him

[notin]

Garcia is a top 25 prospect right now. He made every midseason top 25 list. I’d have no problem moving Florial for Stroman. I have a problem moving Garcia for him

 

Top 5 on every list?

 

MLB.com had him at 66 on their mid season list...

[Carpin]

After what the Mets gave for Stroman, an offer of the same magnitude can be probably Gil and Abreu from the Yankees

[notin]

After what the Mets gave for Stroman, an offer of the same magnitude can be probably Gil and Abreu from the Yankees

 

Maybe. But that’s not what Toronto wanted.

 

And per MLB.com, Garcia is barely a Top 70 prospect. Top 70 is not grounds for being untouchable for a top MLB 5 pitcher in ERA who isn’t a rental...

[jacksonianmarch]

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/51383/2019-prospects-the-midseason-50/

[Carpin]

Maybe. But that’s not what Toronto wanted.

 

And per MLB.com, Garcia is barely a Top 70 prospect. Top 70 is not grounds for being untouchable for a top MLB 5 pitcher in ERA who isn’t a rental...

 

Stroman is not a top 5 pitcher, for a pitcher of that caliber I agree

[notin]

Top 5 on every list?

 

MLB.com had him at 66 on their mid season list...

 

Baseball Prospectus did have him at 25. Fangraphs had him at 61. I don’t have and am not getting a subscription to Baseball America.

 

Deivi Garcia not a consensus top 25 prospect. I found only one publication that had him in the top 60...

[notin]

Stroman is not a top 5 pitcher, for a pitcher of that caliber I agree

 

He is top 5 in ERA

[notin]

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/51383/2019-prospects-the-midseason-50/

 

You said every list. Baseball Prospectus is not every list.

 

MLB.com and Fangraphs both have him in the 61-70 range. Does anyone besides BP have him in the top 25?

[Carpin]

He is top 5 in ERA

 

that alone doesn't make him a top 5 pitcher, nowadays there are several other stats

 

from the top of my mind I think of Sale, deGrom, Cole, Verlander, Nola, Snell, Buehler, Bauer, Scherzer; I'm not sure if he's even in the top 10

[Carpin]

I just did a quick lookup, he's not in the top 10 in any important category,

 

I'm not trying to diminish Stroman's value, but he's not the stud most people thinks he's. He will be a top of the Yanks rotation for sure, but he's not worth what they were asking for him

[jacksonianmarch]

Stroman's season makes little sense.

 

Compared to last year, his K rate is 0.38 per 9 better (not statistically significant). His walk rate is down by 0.64 per 9IP (once again, negligible). HR rate is down 0.07 per 9 innings (negligible). His GB percentage was 5.8% better last season. His velocity is essentially the same (up 0.3mph). He is using his cutter 6% more and his curve 20% more, so maybe it's in the pitch selection. But based on metrics, last year and this year are nearly identical. FIP last year, 3.91. This year 3.52. xFIP last year 3.84, xFIP this year 4.05. The major difference is WHIP (0.25 better this year) and ERA (a whopping 2.58 better this year).

 

The crazy thing is, Paxton's xFIP is better this year than Stroman's. Stroman is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong. But he is getting by on a lot of smoke and mirrors. He's really a 3.8-ish ERA pitcher when all is said and done, which is good, but not elite. You don't deal elite level prospects for a non-elite level pitcher.

[notin]

that alone doesn't make him a top 5 pitcher, nowadays there are several other stats

 

 

All I said was top 5 in ERA. No one said “top 5 pitcher” until you truncated my sentence, which is your error.

 

As for him being top 5 in ERA, he is fifth in the American League. It’s actually true.

 

And yes, I think Cashman made big mistake holding a borderline top 70 prospect as being more important than his team’s floundering season.

 

And because Cashman made that poor decision, you’ll have a lot more time to extol the virtues of Deivi Garcia to me this October...

[Carpin]

I know he's top 5 in ERA (in the AL), my point was that he was not worth the package they were looking for.

 

As you said, I will probably think "what if" next October; for now, I'm ok with the decision of not making the trade

[jacksonianmarch]

I know he's top 5 in ERA (in the AL), my point was that he was not worth the package they were looking for.

 

As you said, I will probably think "what if" next October; for now, I'm ok with the decision of not making the trade

 

If I am going to part with a kid striking out 15 per 9 in the upper minors at 20 years old, I am gonna need more than a guy who could revert to a 5ERA guy with the exact same peripherals

[Carpin]

If I am going to part with a kid striking out 15 per 9 in the upper minors at 20 years old, I am gonna need more than a guy who could revert to a 5ERA guy with the exact same peripherals

 

and with some durability questions

[notin]

You don't deal elite level prospects for a non-elite level pitcher.

 

When two of three list don’t put you in the top 60, you’re NOT an “elite level prospect.” The Sox best prospect is ranked 90-95 on most list. Mathematically, Garcia is as close or closer to Casas in the 90s than he is to the Top 25.

 

Really it just looks like you want to hold him because he’s the best the Yankees have. But that alone doesn’t mean he’ll be any good.

 

Let’s get real about Garcia. Jesus Sanchez is ranked ahead of him on MLB.com, and he was traded for Trevor Richards (who was removed from the Marlins’ rotation) and Nick Anderson, a rookie having a nice seaon, but also turned TWENTY NINE YEARS OLD last month.

 

And yet lower-ranked Garcia isn’t worth 1.5 years of Stroman?

Edited August 2, 2019 by notin

[jacksonianmarch]

You're hilarious. A major outlet puts him top 25 and it's not a good thing for the Yanks? It means he won't be any good? You're treading into FsB level prospect trolling

[notin]

You're hilarious. A major outlet puts him top 25 and it's not a good thing for the Yanks? It means he won't be any good? You're treading into FsB level prospect trolling

 

ONE major outlet. ONE!!!!

 

Not EVERY major outlet, as you claimed.

 

What’s your next step? Discredit MLB.com and Fangraphs while hyping BP as the one true source?

 

You do know the attrition rate of prospects, right? Chances are stacked against him anyway. He’s NOT an elite prospect and a better prospect was dealt for a lesser pitcher. The Yankees were offered a gift!! And you praise Cashman for walking away. Why? Because BP liked him more than everyone else? Or because you can’t fathom the Yankees trading their best prospect for anything less than a superstar?

[jacksonianmarch]

Fangraphs didn’t release a midseason update FYI

[notin]

Fangraphs didn’t release a midseason update FYI

 

 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2019-in-season-prospect-list?sort=-1,1

 

Deivi Garcia at 61 was withheld for Stroman. #35 Jesus Sanchez was dealt for Trevor Richards and a 29yo rookie

[jacksonianmarch]

Thanks for correcting me. I would like to see what BA has.

[notin]

Thanks for correcting me. I would like to see what BA has.

 

Ask harmony. I believe he has a subscription...

[harmony]

Ask harmony. I believe he has a subscription...

I do not have a Baseball America subscription.

 

And thank you, jacksonianmarch, for the link to the Baseball Prospectus midseason rankings (with Seattle prospects at No. 13, No. 39 and No. 42).

[Kimmi]

I don’t think the talent is there to be totally honest. Price’s raw talent level has diminished, but he’s getting by with veteran guile and location. Sale’s raw talent has diminished. Porcello’s raw talent has diminished. The only guy who’s raw talent is on the upswing is ERod

 

The talent is there. Maybe not to the extent that is was when these guys were in their primes, but it's there.

 

With as bad the staff has been pitching, there comes a time when Lavangie has to be questioned. These guys are too good to be pitching as poorly as they have been.

[Kimmi]

The asking prices were humongous, Detroit and the Mets asked for Gleyber in return for Boyd and Thor. Not sure what the Jays asked for Stroman but yesterday the Mets were asking for Garcia and Florial + some others; the Dbacks were asking for Frazier + 3 others for R. Ray, none of them was worth the asking price (IMO).

 

There was no 2016 Sale on this year market, certainly good SP but not worth to ship out your best prospects for them

 

Somewhere, George is rolling over in his grave.

 

Personally, I agree with the way that the younger Steinbrenners and, subsequently, Cashman now do business.

[jung]

Somewhere, George is rolling over in his grave.

 

Personally, I agree with the way that the younger Steinbrenners and, subsequently, Cashman now do business.

 

If you can stay competitive and keep your farm system going at the same time....hard to complain.

[notin]

If you can stay competitive and keep your farm system going at the same time....hard to complain.

 

I remember not so long ago, Yankee fans used to boast about how any season without a title was a waste of time. Now the goal is to stay competitive?