When does DD push the panic button..??

[harmony]

That phrase ^^ is the "alternate truth" when one doesn't want to admit to TANKING.

How is tanking defined?

 

The NBA and NFL have suspected tanking in that the resulting high draft picks often can improve a team almost immediately. The NBA addressed the issue with the lottery system.

 

But in baseball the top draft picks don't come with the high success rate of their NBA and NFL counterparts. Success is tied to player development after the draft.

 

What does an MLB team gain by "tanking," whatever that is?

[jacksonianmarch]

Top draft picks generally performed better than the later selections. You also have to remember that a top pick also comes with a top pick in each round. String a few of those drafts together and you’ve got something

[notin]

How is tanking defined?

 

The NBA and NFL have suspected tanking in that the resulting high draft picks often can improve a team almost immediately. The NBA addressed the issue with the lottery system.

 

But in baseball the top draft picks don't come with the high success rate of their NBA and NFL counterparts. Success is tied to player development after the draft.

 

What does an MLB team gain by "tanking," whatever that is?

 

 

I define tanking as “re-imaging with the understanding that the current season will be a step back.”

 

And the answer is, very few teams who do this gain anything. They just lose games more cheaply...

[Bellhorn04]

I define tanking as “re-imaging with the understanding that the current season will be a step back.”

 

And the answer is, very few teams who do this gain anything. They just lose games more cheaply...

 

The Cubs and Astros did some pretty beneficial tanking.

[jacksonianmarch]

I define tanking as “re-imaging with the understanding that the current season will be a step back.”

 

And the answer is, very few teams who do this gain anything. They just lose games more cheaply...

 

Disagree. The Cubs and Astros did their tank perfectly. The Pirates ranked for years and their problem was that they went cheap in the draft as well. If you nail the scouting and development piece, tanking for a few years will absolutely help your squad return to glory.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Cubs and Astros did some pretty beneficial tanking.

 

Lol, like minds

[jacksonianmarch]

As with all squads, it’s best to be at either pole. There is no major benefit to being the Angels and picking 10-20 every year without making the playoffs. Either you suck and get the best talent or you go for it and make the POs

[notin]

The Cubs and Astros did some pretty beneficial tanking.

 

 

And for every tank job done by those teams, there is are a few failed tank jobs...

[notin]

As with all squads, it’s best to be at either pole. There is no major benefit to being the Angels and picking 10-20 every year without making the playoffs. Either you suck and get the best talent or you go for it and make the POs

 

 

Well, there was that whole “convince Trout to stick around” thing...

[harmony]

I suspect Seattle is trying to clear its roster of players who don't remain under contract beyond this "stepped-back" season. The residual heart of the team remains under control through these seasons:

 

C Navarez 2022, Murphy 2023

1B Healy 2022

2B Gordon 2020 (2021 team option), Long 2025

SS Crawford 2023

3B Seager 2021 (2022 option)

OF Haniger 2022

OF Smith 2022

OF Santana 2021

DH Vogelbach 2024

SP Gonzales 2023

SP Kikuchi 2022+

SP Leake 2020 (2021 option)

SP LeBlanc 2019/2020/2021/2022

RP Strickland 2021

RP Elias 2021

RP Biddle 2022

RP Brennan 2025

RP Festa 2025

RP Tuivailala 2022

 

The Mariners have six prospects ranked among the current Top 100 at MLB Prospect Watch:

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=prospects

 

The M's can watch those players develop -- or not -- and add complementary pieces after the clearing of payroll space since the 2018 season.

 

Without a World Series appearance in its 43-season history, the Seattle franchise will continue to endure the ridicule of many fans. However, the cerebral fan might find the current strategy interesting.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just for haha's, I looked, EE hits about 1 HR in every 10 at bats in Fenway, for his career. Yanks get a buyout, and only about a half season of salary. Pretty smart to me, they still have the money and Prospects if they make a Trade for a Starter. Good move by the Yanks, but Sox did not need him. JD is perfect. Anyway we had no cash for it to happen. Need a Reliever.

Judge

Stanton

Sanchez

EE

Wow!

 

The SOX BP is the elephant in the room. I only disagree with OH FOY in that the SOX need two relievers.

[notin]

I suspect Seattle is trying to clear its roster of players who don't remain under contract beyond this "stepped-back" season. The residual heart of the team remains under control through these seasons:

 

C Navarez 2022, Murphy 2023

1B Healy 2022

2B Gordon 2020 (2021 team option), Long 2025

SS Crawford 2023

3B Seager 2021 (2022 option)

OF Haniger 2022

OF Smith 2022

OF Santana 2021

DH Vogelbach 2024

SP Gonzales 2023

SP Kikuchi 2022+

SP Leake 2020 (2021 option)

SP LeBlanc 2019/2020/2021/2022

RP Strickland 2021

RP Elias 2021

RP Biddle 2022

RP Brennan 2025

RP Festa 2025

RP Tuivailala 2022

 

The Mariners have six prospects ranked among the current Top 100 at MLB Prospect Watch:

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=prospects

 

The M's can watch those players develop -- or not -- and add complementary pieces after the clearing of payroll space since the 2018 season.

 

Without a World Series appearance in its 43-season history, the Seattle franchise will continue to endure the ridicule of many fans. However, the cerebral fan might find the current strategy interesting.

 

 

So all the short-timers like Cano and Edwin Diaz?

 

They’re dumping cash. Leake is next...

[harmony]

So all the short-timers like Cano and Edwin Diaz?

 

They’re dumping cash. Leake is next...

You might be right that the next Mariner traded could be Mike Leake, who as I write on Sunday has surrendered two earned runs over seven innings to lower his season ERA to 4.14.

 

Leake, who this year has gone at least six innings in 12* of his 15 starts, is a less expensive (and much shorter) version of Rick Porcello. Leake and Porcello entered today's games with season ERA+ of 101 and 100, respectively.

 

A durable if unspectacular innings-eater takes pressure off a team's bullpen.

 

* Leake went five innings in each of his three other starts

Edited June 16, 2019 by harmony

[harmony]

So all the short-timers like Cano and Edwin Diaz?

 

They’re dumping cash. Leake is next...

Seattle fans nearly universally celebrate the Robinson Cano trade. Cano and Diaz have combined for 0.2 fWAR for the Mets while the Mariners have enjoyed signficant salary relief. The prize, however, was 19-year-old outfield prospect Jarred Kelenic:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=keleni000jar

 

The Mariners flipped reliever Anthony Swarzak for a lottery ticket in four and a half years of lefthander Jesse Biddle, who has struggled this season after posting a 3.11 ERA in 60 appearances with Atlanta last year.

[jacksonianmarch]

harmony, it must be tough being a fan of the Mariners and going through a true blue tear down of a near playoff team from the year before. The GM in Seattle nailed it, though. He was entirely correct in his teardown. Cano has wilted. Diaz is mortal. Paxton has been good, but injured and not ace-like. Seattle went from a barren wasteland to a top system overnight. If you follow the Astros playbook, stockpiling talent for a few years could really help

[Swiharts Ghost]

Harmony i humbly ask you to forgive my reaction to the Mariners decision to once again trade with the scum sucking NY Yankees .My anger is pure Jeolousy in what Cashman pulled off last night. The Yankees are back without a doubt and for that I tip my cap and look forward to a renewed spark that will happen and yes was needed for baseball .The race has now begun .The Mariners need a championship at some point and when it happens I will be happy for fans like you . Edited June 17, 2019 by Swiharts Ghost

[jacksonianmarch]

Getting another RH power bat is a big boon for us vs Boston, too

[Swiharts Ghost]

Getting another RH power bat is a big boon for us vs Boston, too

 

Jackson you just landed Gary Sheffield and I hated that bat .The man can buggy wip a ball with anyone .

[jacksonianmarch]

I truly think this was a keepaway move. That and I think their GM saw a guy he wanted in return whom he was familiar with. Encarnacion now makes out lineup a full 9 deep with two damn good backups who’d be starting on most every other club. I do wonder if EE keeps raking if we exercise his option for next ye. $5 mil is being paid by TB, so it’s $15 mil for a DH who hammers.

[harmony]

Harmony i humbly ask you to forgive my reaction to the Mariners decision to once again trade with the scum sucking NY Yankees .My anger is pure Jeolousy in what Cashman pulled off last night. The Yankees are back without a doubt and for that I tip my cap and look forward to a renewed spark that will happen and yes was needed for baseball .The race has now begun .The Mariners need a championship at some point and when it happens I will be happy for fans like you .

Thank you for the kind thoughts.

[notin]

I truly think this was a keepaway move. That and I think their GM saw a guy he wanted in return whom he was familiar with. Encarnacion now makes out lineup a full 9 deep with two damn good backups who’d be starting on most every other club. I do wonder if EE keeps raking if we exercise his option for next ye. $5 mil is being paid by TB, so it’s $15 mil for a DH who hammers.

 

 

I’m sure Dipoto talked to all the relevant GMs and everyone passed. You weren’t keeping EE from anyone. He wouldn’t be doing his job if he did anything else.

 

Or the counter argument is that DiPoto had his heart set on a pre-A-ball unranked teenager whose missed the entire season to date. Very specific need. You’re lucky the Yankees had just such a player...

[harmony]

I’m sure Dipoto talked to all the relevant GMs and everyone passed. You weren’t keeping EE from anyone. He wouldn’t be doing his job if he did anything else.

 

Or the counter argument is that DiPoto had his heart set on a pre-A-ball unranked teenager whose missed the entire season to date. Very specific need. You’re lucky the Yankees had just such a player...

Like most new millennium* players who have never played above rookie leagues, Juan Then is slated to open the season at short-season Class A. The Yankees' short-season affiliate, the Staten Island Pizza Rats, opened their season Friday night as did Seattle's short-season affiliate, the Everett AquaSox.

 

That's the season Juan Then has "missed."

* born after January 1, 2000

[Fan_since_Boggs]

There isn't such a thing as a panic button the year after you dominate baseball and win the World Series. The Red Sox are experiencing that "World Series hangover," the same thing that just about every other team experiences as well. This is why very few teams win back-to-back championships.

 

The trade deadline is a tricky scenario for DD, however. The Red Sox should really be sellers, but they will be in the playoff hunt and so will probably be buyers. I would prefer to see the Red Sox act as sellers and begin reloading for next year. I don't see the Red Sox as having a championship team this year. In particular, they aren't as good as the Astros or Dodgers this year.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I truly think this was a keepaway move. That and I think their GM saw a guy he wanted in return whom he was familiar with. Encarnacion now makes out lineup a full 9 deep with two damn good backups who’d be starting on most every other club. I do wonder if EE keeps raking if we exercise his option for next ye. $5 mil is being paid by TB, so it’s $15 mil for a DH who hammers.

 

Boy, when the Red Sox kicked the Yankees ass last year in the playoffs, that really impacted you, didn't it? You now live in a fantasy world that everyone and their mother wanted to trade for Encarnacion but somehow the Yankees outbid everyone with a lottery ticket prospect.

 

Back to reality: the Yankees acquired Encarnacion because GMs around the league weren't interested or offering very much for him and generally believe that Encarnacion isn't an overly valuable piece on a championship team.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[notin]

Like most new millennium* players who have never played above rookie leagues, Juan Then is slated to open the season at short-season Class A. The Yankees' short-season affiliate, the Staten Island Pizza Rats, opened their season Friday night as did Seattle's short-season affiliate, the Everett AquaSox.

 

That's the season Juan Then has "missed."

* born after January 1, 2000

 

 

Either way, I really doubt DiPoto, much like yourself, was thinking about a single player from rookie ball as the return for Encarnacion...

[jacksonianmarch]

Boy, when the Red Sox kicked the Yankees ass last year in the playoffs, that really impacted you, didn't it? You now live in a fantasy world that everyone and their mother wanted to trade for Encarnacion but somehow the Yankees outbid everyone with a lottery ticket prospect.

 

Back to reality: the Yankees acquired Encarnacion because GMs around the league weren't interested or offering very much for him and generally believe that Encarnacion isn't an overly valuable piece on a championship team.

 

When someone says something stupid, I usually rephrase it for them and say it slowly.

 

So the guy who leads the league in homeruns isn’t an overly valuable piece?

 

That’s just stupid. Really, really stupid. But you’re the king of stupid on this board, so keep adding to your crown

[notin]

When someone says something stupid, I usually rephrase it for them and say it slowly.

 

So the guy who leads the league in homeruns isn’t an overly valuable piece?

 

That’s just stupid. Really, really stupid. But you’re the king of stupid on this board, so keep adding to your crown

 

Playing Encarnacion over Brett Gardner is a huge upgrade.

 

What I don’t get is why a lot of other teams passed. Plenty of teams could use him, and certainly the Yankee offer was easily toppable.

 

While I don’t agree, I see why Boston passed. Money, and DD has a thing for Mitch Moreland. But Houston? Why? Was the salary too much for Tampa and Milwaukee? Maybe neither wanted to offer a good enough prospect to get Seattle to cover more? Why not Texas? They could use him and show the league they have no intention of fading away quietly. The Rockies and the Diamondbacks could have also used him. Imagine EE in Coors!

 

But everyone passed. And no way did DiPoto not do his due diligence and ask. Probably asked other teams, too...

[OH FOY]

Wonder why the Guardians didn't take him back now, as a DH especially? Something they don't like. They got Santana back, at 1st.

[notin]

Wonder why the Guardians didn't take him back now, as a DH especially? Something they don't like. They got Santana back, at 1st.

 

I’m guessing they dealt him for financial reasons and maybe he’s not more financially viable to them now?

[OH FOY]

Yanks have a lot of injuries at this point, using many young kids. His bat makes this line-up stronger.

EE hits excellent in Toronto and Boston, you play a lot of divisional Opponents games. And he's relatively cheap.

Sox don't have the money and the DH we use is fine. 1st base is fine at this point. EE was never a real 1st baseman, his last year he played significant time there was 2016, 75 games that was it. He's a DH, that's it. Ortiz was a real 1st baseman, and he was used as a DH only.