The Mookie Betts Performance Thread

[redsoxrules]

If Betts goes on a tear the second half and backs it up next year again, then I'll change my mind

[dgalehouse]

Getting the most expensive players doesn't translate to winning the world series. Yankees are prime example. They have ONE championship since year 2000 and they have paid for MANY expensive players. It's all about getting good value for your buck. Right now the Phillies are not getting good value for their 330 millions contract. Neither are the yanks with Stanton. If the Red Sox pay Betts 300 million they are not going to be getting good value for that deal.

 

The Yankees , with their large payroll, have won 27 World Series. The Red Sox , with their large payroll, have dominated in recent years . How often does a low budget team win the World Series ? Like it or not , money talks .

[notin]

The Yankees , with their large payroll, have won 27 World Series. The Red Sox , with their large payroll, have dominated in recent years . How often does a low budget team win the World Series ? Like it or not , money talks .

 

 

The Yankees didn’t have large payrolls for the bulk of those 27 titles.

 

In fact, if you read “Summer of ‘49”, you’d know the Yankees in that timeframe were severely underpaid and had to win titles to make any money. And that was the driving force that made them better than their Boston contemporaries.

 

You’d also know former Sox pitcher Ellis Kinder was a massive lush who could only pitch effectively when he had a massive hangover. Not really relevant, but fascinating, and also something else you’d know if you read the book...

[notin]

Its huge a mistake to sign him at 300MIl. It wouldn't be for 200 though. He could end up regretting to not accept that deal if he plays like this for the remainder of this year and next. Trout is the ONLY player who if I was the GM would give 300Mil or more. Harper and Machado are not 300MIL player nor close it and neither is Betts

 

Harper and Machado are $300mill players regardless of whether you agree or not. All Betts needs is one GM to think he is, as well...

[notin]

Well, a lot of fans on this board want to give Betts a 300 Million contract. So to me he would have to be close to trout range to give him that. And hes not

 

You do realize Trout’s contract topped $400mill, right?

[notin]

Sarcasm? Sox will likely not try to trade Betts, but eventually he may price himself out of Boston. Someone called JD an enigma, but Betts seems to better fit that description. There is a huge gap between his performance last season and the rest of his career. He is very talented and an all around good player, but its hard to really say how good he is. He might be more like Yaz in some ways than Willie Mays, as he was sometimes being likened too. It is not easy to predict his performances year to year.

 

 

They very, very likely won’t trade Betts.

 

And usually trading a superstar nets lesser players. But this year isn’t promising and Betts has repeatedly refused extensions. So all the Sox lose is 2020.

 

And there are packages other teams might offer that make it worthwhile. If the Dodgers offered Urias and Verdugo, do you pass?

[bosoxmal]

A slump is NOT going from .346 to ,261 in half a season. There is something wrong with Mookie. Eyes? thyroid? hypertension?

 

I would pull him for a week's full examination at someplace like the Cleveland Clinic, Mass Geeral, Walter Reed, etc. It may be physical, it may be mental, but it's sure as hell something!

 

Plaers with 3 or 4 years experience DO NOT take nose dives like this!

[jung]

I have said it before and I will say it again....Mookie is simply physically too small to invest big money into. People talk Harper and Machado. Harper is 6-3, 220, Machado is 6-3, 215. Mookie is 5-9, 180. Mookie is not getting Harper, Machado, Trout money from me....not on a bet.

[notin]

I have said it before and I will say it again....Mookie is simply physically too small to invest big money into. People talk Harper and Machado. Harper is 6-3, 220, Machado is 6-3, 215. Mookie is 5-9, 180. Mookie is not getting Harper, Machado, Trout money from me....not on a bet.

 

 

He has 1.5 seasons left and is apparently on a quest for big money. Would you trade him?

[jung]

He has 1.5 seasons left and is apparently on a quest for big money. Would you trade him?

 

Depending on the return....YUP....in a NY Minute. Should have been trying to as soon as he hit the reject button on their offer to sign him.

[Bellhorn04]

Depending on the return....YUP....in a NY Minute. Should have been trying to as soon as he hit the reject button on their offer to sign him.

 

That was after 2017. So we would have missed his MVP season and maybe not won the World Series in 2018.

[jung]

That was after 2017. So we would have missed his MVP season and maybe not won the World Series in 2018.

 

I said depending on the return.....they should have started figuring Mookie out of the picture in the long run from that moment on. Maybe they have been. There is no future in trying to deal with Mookie at Machado, Harper money. Zippo....zero....nada.

 

They may not be able to turn Mookie into a really good return even now as the reigning MVP.

 

AND how do you know what we would have gotten for Mookie and how we would have faired in 2018. We cruised through the 2018 regular season and in the post season Mookie did......NOTHING.

Edited July 1, 2019 by jung

[oldtimer]

There is no rush to decide on Betts, unless someone is calling to trade him this season. I prefer to wait and see if he can regain the form that made him an MVP last year. He is a gifted, 5 star player that has lost something this year but may well find the problem and make us believe. Is he worth a big long term cont5ract going forward. That is another question. Right now he is playing like an average ML player so that kind of contract seems more appropriate.

[jung]

There is no rush to decide on Betts, unless someone is calling to trade him this season. I prefer to wait and see if he can regain the form that made him an MVP last year. He is a gifted, 5 star player that has lost something this year but may well find the problem and make us believe. Is he worth a big long term cont5ract going forward. That is another question. Right now he is playing like an average ML player so that kind of contract seems more appropriate.

 

It appears he is going to want Harper, Marchado money. Simply not a worthwhile direction to go in whether he recovers this year or not. He is simply too diminutive in physical stature. For one thing he is one wrist injury away from suddenly being a very average player, one run in with the outfield wall, one collision with a player. He is just not big enough to play Manfred-ball or risk big money on him playing Manfred-ball. You want to blame somebody...blame Manfred and the idiot MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

The offseason just past, with the Machado and Harper contracts, gave a clear reminder that all you need is one owner who wants to make a splash and the megabucks shall be produced.

[jung]

The offseason just past, with the Machado and Harper contracts, gave a clear reminder that all you need is one owner who wants to make a splash and the megabucks shall be produced.

 

Fine....let somebody else risk all that cash on Mookie if they want to do so.

[moonslav59]

Fine....let somebody else risk all that cash on Mookie if they want to do so.

 

If that is your opinion, then you should be for trading Betts, before all we get is a crappy draft pick after he refuses our QO.

 

When would you trade him?

 

Now?

At the deadline?

This winter?

2020 deadline?

 

(Might as well trade Porcello, too, right?)

[notin]

If that is your opinion, then you should be for trading Betts, before all we get is a crappy draft pick after he refuses our QO.

 

When would you trade him?

 

Now?

At the deadline?

This winter?

2020 deadline?

 

(Might as well trade Porcello, too, right?)

 

 

Trade Betts now to any team that meets the lofty asking price...

[moonslav59]

Trade Betts now to any team that meets the lofty asking price...

 

We can't expect ML'ers, but we can expect something like the Chris Sale deal.

[jung]

Trade Betts now to any team that meets the lofty asking price...

 

Correctamento!

[devildavid]

The Yankees , with their large payroll, have won 27 World Series. The Red Sox , with their large payroll, have dominated in recent years . How often does a low budget team win the World Series ? Like it or not , money talks .

 

The Yankees did not have a large payroll for all 27 championships. But they did have superior management compared to the Sox.

[moonslav59]

The Yankees did not have a large payroll for all 27 championships. But they did have superior management compared to the Sox.

 

They were probably the top paid team for most of their rings and top 3 or 4 in almost all the others.

[devildavid]

They were probably the top paid team for most of their rings and top 3 or 4 in almost all the others.

 

No, they weren't. But they were the best run baseball organization.

[moonslav59]

No, they weren't. But they were the best run baseball organization.

 

It's hard to prove, because team payroll budgets were not public knowledge, but I'm pretty sure the Yanks were one of the biggest spenders for a long time.

 

I guess buying Babe Ruth for cash was something all teams did back then, right?

 

I think the numbers went public in 1998. Here are the numbers since then:

Yankee ring years:

1998: 2nd highest to the O's

1999: 1st by $7M ($88>81)

2000: 1st by $4M ($92>88)

2009: 1st by $76M ($201>135)

 

Anybody know where to find payroll numbers from 1920 to 1998?

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

No, they weren't. But they were the best run baseball organization.

 

Yes, that, too.

[notin]

We can't expect ML'ers, but we can expect something like the Chris Sale deal.

 

Sure we can.

 

I get that teams in the hunt rarely (re: never) break up theirs team. But maybe I’m too stuck on this package, but I like the idea of Alex Verdugo and Julio Urias. Betts would be replacing Verdugo anyway, and Urias is in the bullpen....

[Slasher9]

we better get MLers + prospects if we trade Betts.

[notin]

They were probably the top paid team for most of their rings and top 3 or 4 in almost all the others.

 

As I mentioned before, Halberstam talks about Sox and Yankee payrolls briefly in “Summer of ‘49”. According to him, the Yankees at that time were underpaid and the only way their players made real money was by winning titles. Back then, apparently low pay was a motivating factor...

[moonslav59]

As I mentioned before, Halberstam talks about Sox and Yankee payrolls briefly in “Summer of ‘49”. According to him, the Yankees at that time were underpaid and the only way their players made real money was by winning titles. Back then, apparently low pay was a motivating factor...

 

Endorsements were probably rare and low paid as well.

[notin]

Endorsements were probably rare and low paid as well.

 

Especially since television was still in its early stages and televised commercials were only 8 years old at the time...