Red Sox-Yankees rivalry extends to offseason

[BillyWilliams]

Red Sox-Yankees rivalry extends to offseason

01:09

Jan. 3rd, 2019

 

By Richard Justice MLB.com @RichardJustice

 

Your move, Red Sox. You're on the clock. All of a sudden, a six-year deal for free-agent closer Craig Kimbrel doesn't seem so outrageous, does it? That's especially true when you've just watched the Yankees construct baseball's best bullpen with a deal to bring back left-hander Zach Britton.

 

If the Red Sox planned to wait out the relief market and hope a front-line guy fell through the cracks, that's not happening. Andrew Miller, Joe Kelly, David Robertson and now Britton are off the market, leaving two unsigned arms among the top tier: Kimbrel and Adam Ottavino.

 

Wait, what's that? Yankees general manager Brian Cashman may sign Ottavino as well? Reports indicate that's a possibility.

 

Like the others at the back of the Yankees' bullpen, Ottavino's game is power: a 94-mph fastball and a knee-bending slider. He appeared in 75 games for the Rockies last season, averaging 13 strikeouts per nine innings and less than one baserunner per inning.

 

Even without Ottavino, here's what could happen when Yankees manager Aaron Boone gets five innings from a starting pitcher. He would then have Chad Green, Dellin Betances, Britton and Aroldis Chapman lined up for the final four frames.

 

If you're working on your American League East power rankings, good luck. As ridiculously good as the Red Sox (108 wins) and Yankees (100 wins) were in 2018, prepare for more craziness.

 

Now, about the Red Sox. In re-signing first baseman Steve Pearce and right-hander Nathan Eovaldi, they accomplished almost everything on their to-do list.

 

Now, about a closer. Just like last season's deliberate negotiations with free agent J.D. Martinez, the Red Sox and Kimbrel are an obvious fit.

 

Boston has a pair of hard throwers -- Matt Barnes and Ryan Brasier -- with closer-type stuff on their roster. But the two of them have two total career saves (both by Barnes), and the AL East -- and a chance to win back-to-back World Series -- is not for experimenting.

 

Kimbrel, 30, is five months younger than Britton, so it'll be interesting to see how similar the two contracts are. Britton's deal could run anywhere from $26 million over two years to $53 million over four years.

 

Kimbrel has been healthier than Britton the past two seasons, but in terms of stuff and performance, they're very close. Kimbrel's case for getting a fifth or sixth season is simply supply and demand.

 

Oh, and Manny Machado. He figures into this as well. Are the Yankees the new AL East favorite? Probably not. The Red Sox still have a better offense and a better rotation. But the Yankees have gained some ground.

 

And the Yanks would gain even more if Cashman wins the Machado sweepstakes. To add him to a lineup that hit 40 more home runs than any other AL club last season could set up one of the great division races we've ever had. He'd be nice leverage for Kimbrel in his talks with the Red Sox.

 

Regardless, Cashman has had a great offseason by acquiring left-hander James Paxton and shortstop Troy Tulowitzki, and re-signing J.A. Happ and Britton.

 

This sport is better and more interesting when the Yankees and Red Sox are both good. They were both way better than good last season, and are on their way to being even better in 2019. Both teams would like to put impact finishing touches on their offseasons. These could be what decides things.

 

Red Sox, Yankees poised for strong 2019

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Your move, Red Sox. You're on the clock. All of a sudden, a six-year deal for free-agent closer Craig Kimbrel doesn't seem so outrageous, does it? That's especially true when you've just watched the Yankees construct baseball's best bullpen with a deal to bring back left-hander Zach Britton.If the Red

[Kimmi]

Red Sox-Yankees rivalry extends to offseason

01:09

Jan. 3rd, 2019

 

By Richard Justice MLB.com @RichardJustice

 

Your move, Red Sox. You're on the clock. All of a sudden, a six-year deal for free-agent closer Craig Kimbrel doesn't seem so outrageous, does it? That's especially true when you've just watched the Yankees construct baseball's best bullpen with a deal to bring back left-hander Zach Britton.

 

1. The Red Sox should never make a move to counter a move that the Yankees have made.

2. What the heck is he even talking about that a 6 year deal for Kimbrel suddenly doesn't seem so outrageous? Of course it's outrageous.

3. Do the Yankees have baseball's best bullpen? I don't know.

4. The Yankees had baseball's best bullpen last year, one that was capable of shortening a game to 3 innings. Where did that get them?

5. The Red Sox are still the team to beat. Plain and simple.

[jacksonianmarch]

1. The Red Sox should never make a move to counter a move that the Yankees have made.

2. What the heck is he even talking about that a 6 year deal for Kimbrel suddenly doesn't seem so outrageous? Of course it's outrageous.

3. Do the Yankees have baseball's best bullpen? I don't know.

4. The Yankees had baseball's best bullpen last year, one that was capable of shortening a game to 3 innings. Where did that get them?

5. The Red Sox are still the team to beat. Plain and simple.

 

1. Agree to a point about counter moves. I never liked the move for the sake of a move thing. But a move to counter a rival move that would neutralize their move makes sense. Like if the Yanks all of a sudden went all right handed and the sox go out and get a RH pitcher who murders RH hitters....oh wait, the sox did that...

 

2. Agree on that too. Just because the other options are falling by the wayside doesn't mean you have to outbid yourself. That being said, the sox and Kimbrel look like a fait accompli at this point. One side just needs to blink a little and a deal will get done

 

3. Yes, the Yankees have the majors best pen. Yes, they had the majors best pen last year. And that was with us losing a major contributor from 2017 in Kahnle, who is healthy for 2019

 

4. It got us one Benintendi diving catch away from taking you to a game 5 with a battered Chris Sale in Fenway. The Yanks were the only team to actually put up a fight against Boston.

 

5. The Yanks addition of Paxton plus a full year from Happ and Britton more than makes up for the loss of KRob. The sox get a full year out of Eovaldi (which is intriguing) and Pearce (probably less so). The sox losing their setup man and closer to free agency without replacing them would be devastating. Right now, if tomorrow was opening day and all FA's signed elsewhere, I don't think you can say you are the unequivocal favorites

[Jasonbay44]

Giving Kimbrel more money because the Yankees signed Machado, would be completely stupid.

[notin]

 

4. It got us one Benintendi diving catch away from taking you to a game 5 with a battered Chris Sale in Fenway. The Yanks were the only team to actually put up a fight against Boston.

 

I think you might be confusing yourself with an Astros fan here...

[Bellhorn04]

I think you might be confusing yourself with an Astros fan here...

 

When he gets this excited, some confusion comes along with it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think you might be confusing yourself with an Astros fan here...

 

Yeah, they really put up a fight in game 5. And in games 3 and 4.

[notin]

Yeah, they really put up a fight in game 5. And in games 3 and 4.

 

 

But they did hit the ball Benintendi made the diving catch on (which was in Game 4).

 

And the Yankees did put up a fight. If the Sox didn’t score those last 16 runs in game 3 and if Kimbrel hit and walked a few more batters in game 4, you might have won the series...

Edited January 8, 2019 by notin

[jacksonianmarch]

But they did hit the ball Benintendi made the diving catch on (which was in Game 4).

 

And the Yankees did put up a fight. If the Sox didn’t score those last 16 runs in game 3 and if Kimbrel hit and walked a few more batters in game 4, you might have won the series...

 

The sox creamed us in one game. The other losses were 1 run affairs with the tying runs on base.

[notin]

The sox creamed us in one game. The other losses were 1 run affairs with the tying runs on base.

 

Except Game 1. Which ended with no runners on base.

 

Really the only game that fits that description is game 4, and that Yankee rally was more a gift from Kimbrel than anything the Yankees did. (To their credit, they did willingly accept that gift.)

[Bellhorn04]

The sox creamed us in one game. The other losses were 1 run affairs with the tying runs on base.

 

Yeah, and we lost the 1978 playoff game by 1 run and 2003 ALCS Game 7 by 1 run.

 

A whole season can be decided by 1 run, that's baseball.

[BillyWilliams]

Yeah, and we lost the 1978 playoff game by 1 run and 2003 ALCS Game 7 by 1 run.

 

A whole season can be decided by 1 run, that's baseball.

 

But I thought sox fans don't consider Wild Card games and tie breakers to be "playoff games"?

[notin]

But I thought sox fans don't consider Wild Card games and tie breakers to be "playoff games"?

 

 

While that game was by definition a regular season game, the entire AL East pennant in 1978 was decided by that one single run. Do you disputed that somehow or is this simply the best trash talk you have to counter that salient point?

 

It’s certainly a better point than th “if the Yankees swept that 4 game series instead of getting swept” one I didn’t see you counter...

[Bellhorn04]

But I thought sox fans don't consider Wild Card games and tie breakers to be "playoff games"?

 

No, you didn't think that, Billy. Some of the posters here call the current Wild Card games play-in games, that much is true.

[BillyWilliams]

No, you didn't think that, Billy. Some of the posters here call the current Wild Card games play-in games, that much is true.

 

So exactly how was the 1978 game not a "play in" game?

[BillyWilliams]

While that game was by definition a regular season game, the entire AL East pennant in 1978 was decided by that one single run. Do you disputed that somehow or is this simply the best trash talk you have to counter that salient point?

 

It’s certainly a better point than th “if the Yankees swept that 4 game series instead of getting swept” one I didn’t see you counter...

 

Who's disputing that the season was decided by 1 run??!!

[Bellhorn04]

So exactly how was the 1978 game not a "play in" game?

 

It was a playoff because the 2 teams tied for the division lead. Completely different from the current Wild Card games that are called 'play in' games by some.

 

You already know all this, you're just being a snarky jackass as per usual.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[BillyWilliams]

It was a playoff because the 2 teams tied for the division lead. Completely different from the current Wild Card games that are called 'play in' games by some.

 

You already know all this, you're just being a snarky jackass as per usual.

 

No, it was not a playoff game, it was a tie breaker.

 

Bottom line is as per MLB, tie breakers are regular season games and WC games are considered play off games.

[iortiz]

Yeah, they really put up a fight in game 5. And in games 3 and 4.

 

While the Yankees, Astros and even the Dodgers fought, The Sox were way superior. Not even close.

[Kimmi]

1. Agree to a point about counter moves. I never liked the move for the sake of a move thing. But a move to counter a rival move that would neutralize their move makes sense. Like if the Yanks all of a sudden went all right handed and the sox go out and get a RH pitcher who murders RH hitters....oh wait, the sox did that...

 

2. Agree on that too. Just because the other options are falling by the wayside doesn't mean you have to outbid yourself. That being said, the sox and Kimbrel look like a fait accompli at this point. One side just needs to blink a little and a deal will get done

 

3. Yes, the Yankees have the majors best pen. Yes, they had the majors best pen last year. And that was with us losing a major contributor from 2017 in Kahnle, who is healthy for 2019

 

4. It got us one Benintendi diving catch away from taking you to a game 5 with a battered Chris Sale in Fenway. The Yanks were the only team to actually put up a fight against Boston.

 

5. The Yanks addition of Paxton plus a full year from Happ and Britton more than makes up for the loss of KRob. The sox get a full year out of Eovaldi (which is intriguing) and Pearce (probably less so). The sox losing their setup man and closer to free agency without replacing them would be devastating. Right now, if tomorrow was opening day and all FA's signed elsewhere, I don't think you can say you are the unequivocal favorites

 

If the Sox are in need of a pitcher, then considering what the Yankees line up looks like might make some sense. But that's not the same as the Yankees making a move and the Sox feeling the need to make a move to counter.

 

I have never said that the Sox are the unequivocal favorites. We could add 2 or 3 top relievers and I still wouldn't call it an unequivocal thing. That said, I do think that they remain the team to beat.

[Kimmi]

I think you might be confusing yourself with an Astros fan here...

 

Ah. I was racking my brain trying to think of what catch Jacko was talking about.

[a700hitter]

While the Yankees, Astros and even the Dodgers fought, The Sox were way superior. Not even close.

This Red Sox team was a juggernaut. No one could stop them in 2018.

[BillyWilliams]

It was a playoff because the 2 teams tied for the division lead. Completely different from the current Wild Card games that are called 'play in' games by some.

 

You already know all this, you're just being a snarky jackass as per usual.

 

So, according you, last year the cubs and the rockies both played "playoff games" and then played a "play in game" to see if they could make the playoffs.

 

Too funny.

[Bellhorn04]

So, according you, last year the cubs and the rockies both played "playoff games" and then played a "play in game" to see if they could make the playoffs.

 

Too funny.

 

I said some people call the new Wild Card games 'play in' games. I don't know why you're trying to make such a big deal out of it, other than to troll. My original post was about one run deciding a season.

[notin]

So, according you, last year the cubs and the rockies both played "playoff games" and then played a "play in game" to see if they could make the playoffs.

 

Too funny.

 

 

Really?

 

If you’re limited to trolling about that level, your permit needs to be revoked. I mean, is this really the best you have?

[moonslav59]

If the Sox are in need of a pitcher, then considering what the Yankees line up looks like might make some sense. But that's not the same as the Yankees making a move and the Sox feeling the need to make a move to counter.

 

I have never said that the Sox are the unequivocal favorites. We could add 2 or 3 top relievers and I still wouldn't call it an unequivocal thing. That said, I do think that they remain the team to beat.

 

I know expecting no injuries is a lot to ask for, but looking at our rotation, we can see it offers a a huge area to improve or at least to make up for some of the downside of a diminished bull pen in 2019.

 

In 2018, we got 34 starts from Pom, Johnson, Velazquez, Cuevas & Beeks plus 4 from Wright. It's possible we replace those starts with...

 

4-7 more from Sale

2-3 more from Price

12-20 more from Eovaldi

6-10 more from ERod

Unknown more from Wright

 

On offense, just getting these guys to 152 games would add this many games...

 

16 Betts

16 Bogey

4 Beni

2 JD

 

31 Devers

8 JBJ

 

Unknown from Pearce

 

(Vaz & Moreland also missed time in '18.)

 

[Bellhorn04]

Really?

 

If you’re limited to trolling about that level, your permit needs to be revoked. I mean, is this really the best you have?

 

BillyBabe is so predictable. He sort of wants to talk about baseball, but he can't resist being a jerky troll for long. Eventually he gets himself banned again.

[jacksonianmarch]

I know expecting no injuries is a lot to ask for, but looking at our rotation, we can see it offers a a huge area to improve or at least to make up for some of the downside of a diminished bull pen in 2019.

 

In 2018, we got 34 starts from Pom, Johnson, Velazquez, Cuevas & Beeks plus 4 from Wright. It's possible we replace those starts with...

 

4-7 more from Sale

2-3 more from Price

12-20 more from Eovaldi

6-10 more from ERod

Unknown more from Wright

 

On offense, just getting these guys to 152 games would add this many games...

 

16 Betts

16 Bogey

4 Beni

2 JD

 

31 Devers

8 JBJ

 

Unknown from Pearce

 

(Vaz & Moreland also missed time in '18.)

 

 

Dude, you’re entirely delusional about injuries here. Sale wasn’t healthy to finish the year. Expecting 30 starts here is wishing. ERod hasn’t gone past 25 MLB starts as a Red Sox. Eovaldi is a huge injury risk. And even with no questions, a team usually loses the equivalent of a starter a season (30-40 starts) due to injury or ineffectiveness and that’s usually a best case

[Bellhorn04]

Dude, you’re entirely delusional about injuries here. Sale wasn’t healthy to finish the year. Expecting 30 starts here is wishing. ERod hasn’t gone past 25 MLB starts as a Red Sox. Eovaldi is a huge injury risk. And even with no questions, a team usually loses the equivalent of a starter a season (30-40 starts) due to injury or ineffectiveness and that’s usually a best case

 

There are significant injury risks with both of our rotations.

[notin]

BillyBabe is so predictable. He sort of wants to talk about baseball, but he can't resist being a jerky troll for long. Eventually he gets himself banned again.

 

 

And really going after the minutiae here. While it was a regular season game, that game in 1978 was constantly referred to as a “one game playoff.” And as it was a “winner take all,” it really served that purpose. Any sport that has a single game with high postseason stakes like that is often referred to as “effectively a playoff game.”

 

It’s not really up for being teased about in the same fashion as Jacko saying the Yankees playoff hopes were decided by a diving catch that happened in a completely different series...