What would a Betts extension be?

[Northern Star]

Sure. Can't have it both ways, right? They did manage to trade him and maybe should have gotten more back.

 

I was hoping all along that they would be saddled with that ridiculous contract, but the Yankees bailed them out.

[Bellhorn04]

I was hoping all along that they would be saddled with that ridiculous contract, but the Yankees bailed them out.

 

Personally I think Loria was pretty much a sleazeball, but I thought the Stanton contract made sense for them. The only option was just letting him walk away.

[Kimmi]

I was hoping all along that they would be saddled with that ridiculous contract, but the Yankees bailed them out.

 

I'm just glad the Red Sox are not saddled with that contract.

[notin]

Personally I think Loria was pretty much a sleazeball, but I thought the Stanton contract made sense for them. The only option was just letting him walk away.

 

Loria was one of the worst owners ever. Why did he keep buying teams when it was evident to everyone he cared nothing about baseball? Was he just buying teams to pocket revenue sharing money? MLB needs to make sure he never owns another team again...

[jacksonianmarch]

I was hoping all along that they would be saddled with that ridiculous contract, but the Yankees bailed them out.

 

The Yankees bailed out the Marlins? More, the Marlins made the deal knowing they were dealing him. The deal was made to lessen the AAV for teams who care more about lux tax payments than they do about having high payrolls. The Stanton contract is the perfect example. On the books, the Yanks are being hit with a $22 mil AAV. In real life, the last 7 years are $31 mil per year payouts. The Yanks care more about not paying out lux tax if can be avoided than paying out the contract to Stanton. Stanton on the books at $22 mil through his prime is actually great value for the Yanks.

 

Listen, Betts is a different animal, we all know that. His total package is up there with Trout and Judge as the best OFers in the game. Last year, he surpassed them both. He’s gonna hit FA at a younger age than both of his counterparts (Judge and Betts were born the same year). He’s gonna get a super ridiculous contract. I still wonder if the Sox end up offering a front loaded deal with an opt out to keep the AAV low, but if you go with a straight AAV long term deal, you’d have to assume he crosses $32 mil AAV and would set a new record

[Bellhorn04]

Listen, Betts is a different animal, we all know that. His total package is up there with Trout and Judge as the best OFers in the game. Last year, he surpassed them both. He’s gonna hit FA at a younger age than both of his counterparts (Judge and Betts were born the same year). He’s gonna get a super ridiculous contract. I still wonder if the Sox end up offering a front loaded deal with an opt out to keep the AAV low, but if you go with a straight AAV long term deal, you’d have to assume he crosses $32 mil AAV and would set a new record

 

The highest AAV in history is Greinke's 34.4 mill.

[Bellhorn04]

The Yankees bailed out the Marlins? More, the Marlins made the deal knowing they were dealing him. The deal was made to lessen the AAV for teams who care more about lux tax payments than they do about having high payrolls. The Stanton contract is the perfect example. On the books, the Yanks are being hit with a $22 mil AAV. In real life, the last 7 years are $31 mil per year payouts. The Yanks care more about not paying out lux tax if can be avoided than paying out the contract to Stanton. Stanton on the books at $22 mil through his prime is actually great value for the Yanks.

 

The $22 mill AAV is quite reasonable. The only problem is it lasts until the year 2028.

[jacksonianmarch]

The $22 mill AAV is quite reasonable. The only problem is it lasts until the year 2028.

 

That’s a bit of an issue, although based on age, not entirely nuts. He’ll be 29 for all of the 2019 season. We have him for 9 more seasons, 5 of which should be prime (29-33) and the final 4 are theoretically post prime. Thing with Stanton is that his power isn’t gonna go anywhere, I think it’ll be more injury than ineffectiveness with him. Plus, he was “worth” $33 mil last season in what was considered a down season. He knows the league now and if Boone can work on his lineup dynamics, he should come back to his ceiling which he’s already showed. So if we get 6 years of prime then he’s serviceable for some of the 4 post prime years, then it’s a worthwhile deal, especially at the price.

 

On the topic of lineup dynamics, I hope Boone has the analytics of when he stacks Judge and Stanton. When those two guys are 2-3 in the order, the 3 hitter gets owned. Cone had a really good take on it. The pitcher doesn’t have to change angle at all, so Judge gets the fresh look and Stanton gets the more difficult second look from the pitcher and hence, Stanton gets neutralized. Stacking same handed, same sized hitters is a good way to have a good hitter get neutralized. Split them up!

[moonslav59]

I think Stanton at $22M is a steal.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Stanton at $22M is a steal.

 

It's a very good price right now. But it has 10 years to run, 2019-2028.

[Kimmi]

I think Stanton at $22M is a steal.

 

It's a great price when you disregard the 10 years attached to it.

[moonslav59]

It's a great price when you disregard the 10 years attached to it.

 

I'd sign him to $32M x 5 front end added to $12M x 5 back end.

[Kimmi]

I'd sign him to $32M x 5 front end added to $12M x 5 back end.

 

I would not.

 

Then again, I would not sign Betts to a 10 year deal either.

[moonslav59]

I would not.

 

Then again, I would not sign Betts to a 10 year deal either.

 

The problem with the Stanton deal was paying him and giving up prospects to get him.

 

In today's FA market, Stanton for $220M/10 is a bargain.

[Northern Star]

I'd sign him to $32M x 5 front end added to $12M x 5 back end.

 

You're way short for a ten year contract, his agent wouldn't let him take that when he should be able to get $300 mil elsewhere.

[Northern Star]

It's a great price when you disregard the 10 years attached to it.

 

"Besides that, how did you like the play, Mrs Lincoln?"

[moonslav59]

You're way short for a ten year contract, his agent wouldn't let him take that when he should be able to get $300 mil elsewhere.

 

That's why his remaining deal with the Yanks is good for the Yanks, unless he starts sucking sooner than expected.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem with the Stanton deal was paying him and giving up prospects to get him.

 

In today's FA market, Stanton for $220M/10 is a bargain.

 

Correction: 2028 is a team option year so it's actually 9 years left.

 

FWIW a lot of Yankee fans are less than enamored with Stanton's deal and think it has a lot to do with not going after Machado or Harper.

 

One of the reasons is they think Stanton can't really play the field any more and will soon be a full time DH.

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s more than capable of being a good OFer. His UZR/150’s have been good to really good. His issue with the Marlins was soft tissue type injuries and the guy is built like an Adonis. He pulls muscles and he’s out longer than most. Hence, keeping him as a DH increases his durability

[Kimmi]

I would much rather have JD and his 5 year contract than Stanton and his 10 year contract.

[moonslav59]

I would much rather have JD and his 5 year contract than Stanton and his 10 year contract.

 

Just so I got it straight, you prefer a contract with all 5 years at and post 30 year old years old at $22M versus a contract with 3 years under 30 plus 6 at and post 30 years old at $22M.

 

(Note: I prefer JD, too, because JD>GS.)

 

[jacksonianmarch]

I would much rather have JD and his 5 year contract than Stanton and his 10 year contract.

 

JD’s contract is a 2 year deal dressed up as a 5 year deal. Of course you’d rather that type of deal, everyone would

[jacksonianmarch]

Correction: 2028 is a team option year so it's actually 9 years left.

 

FWIW a lot of Yankee fans are less than enamored with Stanton's deal and think it has a lot to do with not going after Machado or Harper.

 

One of the reasons is they think Stanton can't really play the field any more and will soon be a full time DH.

 

I’m not sure who floated that narrative, but it’s not supported by facts. Stanton is actually a good corner OFer. Gardner and Judge just happen to be better defensively. Stanton isn’t a CFer. The only reason why we chose Stanton to almost exclusively DH is the injury risk. Stanton has had trouble staying on the field even in years where he doesn’t take a ball in the grill. DHing him is the best way to ensure his bat is in the lineup.

 

Also, Yankee fans who don’t like his contract are stupid. His contract is not the reason we aren’t chasing the big boys. The ridiculous AAV offered to both guys is the reason

[Kimmi]

Just so I got it straight, you prefer a contract with all 5 years at and post 30 year old years old at $22M versus a contract with 3 years under 30 plus 6 at and post 30 years old at $22M.

 

(Note: I prefer JD, too, because JD>GS.)

 

 

Yes, I do, but I do acknowledge that I might feel differently if JD had not performed so well last year.

 

Also, saying that Stanton's contract is $22 mil a year is rather misleading. I get that for tax purposes, it's $22 mil, but that is not what the Yankees are paying him. For the 6 post 30 years, the Yankees will be paying Stanton between $29 and $32 mil a year. That's a significant difference over JD's max yearly amount.

[moonslav59]

Yes, I do, but I do acknowledge that I might feel differently if JD had not performed so well last year.

 

Also, saying that Stanton's contract is $22 mil a year is rather misleading. I get that for tax purposes, it's $22 mil, but that is not what the Yankees are paying him. For the 6 post 30 years, the Yankees will be paying Stanton between $29 and $32 mil a year. That's a significant difference over JD's max yearly amount.

 

True. Good point.

[redsoxrules]

Let's see what Harper and Machado get. That would give us an indication on Mookie.

 

Imo people are over shooting Harper and Manny big time. If either one of them gets a 300M contract then the GM should probably get fired. They are way over hyped.

[moonslav59]

Let's see what Harper and Machado get. That would give us an indication on Mookie.

 

Imo people are over shooting Harper and Manny big time. If either one of them gets a 300M contract then the GM should probably get fired. They are way over hyped.

 

I think their ages is what a lot of the hype is about. Both are pretty young by FA standards, and most of the worst long term deals were given to older or much older stars/

[redsoxrules]

I think their ages is what a lot of the hype is about. Both are pretty young by FA standards, and most of the worst long term deals were given to older or much older stars/

 

Harper is 5 WAR player minus his MVP season. His base running sucks and his fielding is meh. that's not worth a 300M contract.

His bat is his only value and he is too inconsistent with it. He goes into 2 weeks stretches without doing a damn thing multiple times yearly.

Manny to me has higher value because of what he produces from his position.

[dgalehouse]

Mookie Betts and Mike Trout are going to get more , maybe a lot more , than Harper and Machado . They are on a different level in every way .

[moonslav59]

Harper is 5 WAR player minus his MVP season. His base running sucks and his fielding is meh. that's not worth a 300M contract.

His bat is his only value and he is too inconsistent with it. He goes into 2 weeks stretches without doing a damn thing multiple times yearly.

Manny to me has higher value because of what he produces from his position.

 

I don't think Harper is worth $300M/12 let alone $300M/10. I agree on him, but his age does mean he should get more than other FAs with his numbers at age 30 or 31.

 

Machado plays SS and is young. I'm not sure anyone's really worth $300M/10, but Machado looks better than some of the top contracts given out in the past, when you count in positional value.

 

Even if the Sox had $300M to spend, I wouldn't give him $200M.