Machado: asshole? Dirty player? Both?

[fxkatt]

Honestly I think it would be better to avoid any incidents with Machado. Don't want to stir anybody up and mess with any mojo. Just keep playing great ball and kicking ass on the scoreboard.

 

It's always better in sports to take the high road. This means not stooping to another's level, whenever possible. And not aggravating them for further attacks and damage on the field and off. It also means not burning your bridges to that player.

[cp176]

I think that it would take another foolish move by Machado in order for the Red Sox to conjure up any thought of retaliation for anything that he did. They might not like the thought that Pedroia suffered his injury in the way he did but I doubt seriously that any of them thinks about that incident much. It's over. I hope it stays over. I also hope that this series can remain sort of clean without a major incident. Just win.

No one has to like this guy but the fact remains that he is just an incredible talent.

[jung]

Nobody is going to do anything to Machado in this series IMO. But if Machado continues to play like an idiot purposefully attempting to injure players AND continues to play Shortstop, somebody (likely another hothead) is simply going to take him out on a perfectly legal slide because Machado has limited mobility and footwork around 2nd base at this point in his career.

 

As Pedey often says, these new rules around 2nd base protect nobody. They just lead to a false sense of security which promotes lousy footwork which does lead to injury.

[cp176]

Nobody is going to do anything to Machado in this series IMO. But if Machado continues to play like an idiot purposefully attempting to injure players AND continues to play Shortstop, somebody (likely another hothead) is simply going to take him out on a perfectly legal slide because Machado has limited mobility and footwork around 2nd base at this point in his career.

 

As Pedey often says, these new rules around 2nd base protect nobody. They just lead to a false sense of security which promotes lousy footwork which does lead to injury.

 

Peoria means what he says and he knows what he is talking about but the rules around protecting second base became a heck of a lot more important when video review was instituted. Remember the old days when you really didn't have to be all that close to the bag to turn a dp. Things have changed.

[jung]

Peoria means what he says and he knows what he is talking about but the rules around protecting second base became a heck of a lot more important when video review was instituted. Remember the old days when you really didn't have to be all that close to the bag to turn a dp. Things have changed.

 

That is instant, slo-mo replay. That is not a rule change. That has nothing to do with a rule change. Out was always out. That we can see some plays with greater definition has nothing to do with the rule! Pedey was specifically talking about THE RULE CHANGE supposedly designed to protect infielders.

[jung]

I have a tip for folks that want to become better attuned to infield play.

 

This is a good deal like resisting the temptation to watch the ball during a football game and instead watch the line play.

 

If you want to know how well an infielder is playing his position, take your eyes off the baseball after he has caught the ball or even sometimes before he has caught the ball. Once he has it, he is either going to make the transition, screw up the transition, drop it or throw it. Not much to see there. Instead, watch what he does with his feet and his lower body. That is all I have to say about that.

 

As for Machado, who is now just too big for Shortstop, his top heavy upper body and what is now a shaky set of pins (because of his knees) makes for below average footwork around 2nd base.

Edited October 24, 2018 by jung

[dgalehouse]

Sometimes the difference between a hard - nosed competitor and a dirty player comes down to which uniform they are wearing.

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes the difference between a hard - nosed competitor and a dirty player comes down to which uniform they are wearing.

 

I like to think I can distinguish between the two, but maybe I'm flattering myself.

[dgalehouse]

I like to think I can distinguish between the two, but maybe I'm flattering myself.

 

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

[cp176]

Sometimes the difference between a hard - nosed competitor and a dirty player comes down to which uniform they are wearing.

 

I've always believed this to be true. Many of the Dodgers will tell you right now how much they like and appreciate Machado. We see him do things that we don't like. It would have been easier I think for all of us if Pedroia had been just a little angry at him and not at his teammates when their incident occurred.

[fxkatt]

One thing I don't like about retaliation in baseball is that about 50% of these questionable hit batsman situations, for example, are unintended. We've all seen this time and time again. We say this retaliation is stupid and childish. We've also seen this with slides... maybe questionable but not violent or intended to injure.

 

Yet retaliations are close to 100%.

 

Most of the time, I think it's better to bad mouth to the media players you doubt, but only rarely retaliating on the field. And, why put a guy on base, when you have a chance to really bare down and get him out.

Edited October 24, 2018 by fxkatt

[notin]

One thing I don't like about retaliation in baseball is that about 50% of these hit batsman situations, for example, are unintended. We've all seen this time and time again. We say this retaliation is stupid and childish. We've also seen this with slides... maybe questionable but not violent or intended to injure.

 

Yet retaliations are close to 100%.

 

Most of the time, I think it's better to bad mouth to the media players you doubt, but only rarely retaliating on the field. And, why put a guy on base, when you have a chance to really bare down and get him out.

 

But the reason that doesn't happen is the orignal offense s hurt. Getting hit with a 98mph fastball hurts. I've never been hit with anything that fast and I know this. Getting taken out by a pair of spikes hurts. That one I know.

 

And as long as the offenses hurt, childish or not, retaliation is going to hurt, too...

[fxkatt]

But the reason that doesn't happen is the orignal offense s hurt. Getting hit with a 98mph fastball hurts. I've never been hit with anything that fast and I know this. Getting taken out by a pair of spikes hurts. That one I know.

 

And as long as the offenses hurt, childish or not, retaliation is going to hurt, too...

 

I think the League should be quick to suspend a pitcher or slider when they are quite certain this was intentional. That would put a damper on retaliation.

[notin]

I think the League should be quick to suspend a pitcher or slider when they are quite certain this was intentional. That would put a damper on retaliation.

 

They do suspend players for both, but there is an awful lot of benefit of the doubt. Typically with HBP, they seem to allow a retaliatory strike before giving warnings...

[fxkatt]

They do suspend players for both, but there is an awful lot of benefit of the doubt. Typically with HBP, they seem to allow a retaliatory strike before giving warnings...

 

But I mean get the original instigator immediately. Maybe umps should even have this power, but if not, teams should know that the League will suspend the next day.

 

College football suspends guys right on the spot.. sometimes even on the first play of a game.

[notin]

But I mean get the original instigator immediately. Maybe umps should even have this power, but if not, teams should know that the League will suspend the next day.

 

College football suspends guys right on the spot.. sometimes even on the first play of a game.

 

College football players don't have a union, collective bargaining agreement and appeals process...

[dgalehouse]

Here is one thing: Machado immediately went to help Pedroia up and talk to him. They knew each other. It is reasonable to think that Machado was trying to break up the play , not to injure Dustin. We have all seen Pedro drill a guy for no good reason except intimidation. Gibson too. And Lonborg , among others. What is acceptable and what is not is often determined by whose Ox is being gored. Edited October 24, 2018 by dgalehouse

[fxkatt]

College football players don't have a union, collective bargaining agreement and appeals process...

 

True. I'd just like to see the retaliation game in the MLB calmed or removed altogether from the game itself

[notin]

True. I'd just like to see the retaliation game in the MLB calmed or removed altogether from the game itself

 

One might think mature adults could handle it. As you said, most of the initial actions are accidents...

[fxkatt]

Here is one thing: Machado immediately went to help Pedroia up and talk to him. They knew each other. It is reasonable to think that Machado was trying to break up the play , not to injure Dustin. We have all seen Pedro drill a guy for no good reason except intimidation. Gibson too. And Lonborg , among others. What is acceptable and what is not is often determined by whose Ox is being gored.

 

Good points. I'd like to see this intimidation factor removed from the game

[jung]

Here is one thing: Machado immediately went to help Pedroia up and talk to him. They knew each other. It is reasonable to think that Machado was trying to break up the play , not to injure Dustin. We have all seen Pedro drill a guy for no good reason except intimidation. Gibson too. And Lonborg , among others. What is acceptable and what is not is often determined by whose Ox is being gored.

 

Sorry...I don't buy it. Did he apologize to Josh Donaldson after throwing a bat at him? Did he apologize to Fernando Abad after throwing at bat at him? Did he make any effort to apologize to Aguilar after running over his Achilles. Nope...he turned around as he went past so he could see just how much discomfort he had caused.

 

"He tried to pick Pedey up." Maybe the best place for Pedey to be was on the ground and in fact that is where Pedey stayed. Machado is a head case, probably simply so full of himself and so entitled in his own mind by his own talent that he actually has distain for other players. Given his recent comments about not being a Joe Hustle kind of player, Pedey is probably just the kind of guy he simply does not think belongs on the field with him and just the kind of guy that will cause that short-circuit mind of his to "short-circuit" during play.

 

I don't think Machado plans any of this stuff. But at the moment of truth, I think he gets frustrated and I think he just can't help himself. Frankly I don't care anymore about the reasons why. He has very likely ended Pedey's career and could have ended at least three others but for the grace of God.

[dgalehouse]

Sorry...I don't buy it. Did he apologize to Josh Donaldson after throwing a bat at him? Did he apologize to Fernando Abad after throwing at bat at him? Did he make any effort to apologize to Aguilar after running over his Achilles. Nope...he turned around as he went past so he could see just how much discomfort he had caused.

 

"He tried to pick Pedey up." Maybe the best place for Pedey to be was on the ground and in fact that is where Pedey stayed. Machado is a head case, probably simply so full of himself and so entitled in his own mind by his own talent that he actually has distain for other players. Given his recent comments about not being a Joe Hustle kind of player, Pedey is probably just the kind of guy he simply does not think belongs on the field with him and just the kind of guy that will cause that short-circuit mind of his to "short-circuit" during play.

 

I don't think Machado plans any of this stuff. But at the moment of truth, I think he gets frustrated and I think he just can't help himself. Frankly I don't care anymore about the reasons why. He has very likely ended Pedey's career and could have ended at least three others but for the grace of God.

 

Any thoughts on firing a fastball with the intent to hit the batter ?

[notin]

Here is one thing: Machado immediately went to help Pedroia up and talk to him. They knew each other. It is reasonable to think that Machado was trying to break up the play , not to injure Dustin. We have all seen Pedro drill a guy for no good reason except intimidation. Gibson too. And Lonborg , among others. What is acceptable and what is not is often determined by whose Ox is being gored.

 

And a lot of fans are quick to label a player as dirty just for injuring the wrong guy.

 

Jake Junis was Yankee Fan Public Enemy #1 this year for injuring Aaron Judge with an inside fastball, but Judge swung his wrist into the path of the pitch...

[jung]

Any thoughts on firing a fastball with the intent to hit the batter ?

 

If for so called "showboating" or simply because the player targeted happens to be the opponents best player? Nope. Shouldn't happen.

 

Actually Machado threw his bat at Alberto Callaspo in the Abad incident angered by Abad throwing twice way inside though Abad had not hit Machado. I have no idea what Callaspo had to do with anything. Only Machado himself will have to explain why he flung his bat at Callaspo. I don't think Machado knows!!!

Edited October 24, 2018 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Machado is a multiple repeat offender. It's a pattern.

 

He also grabbed his crotch as a gesture to the Milwaukee fans.

 

He's a blatant punk.

[dgalehouse]

Machado is a multiple repeat offender. It's a pattern.

 

He also grabbed his crotch as a gesture to the Milwaukee fans.

 

He's a blatant punk.

 

He is playing the heel role, the bad boy to the hilt.

[Bellhorn04]

He is playing the heel role, the bad boy to the hilt.

 

This isn't WWF wrestling though.

[dgalehouse]

This isn't wrestling though.

 

No , but it is still sports entertainment. There are similarities , at least for the fans.

[S5Dewey]

Sometimes the difference between a hard - nosed competitor and a dirty player comes down to which uniform they are wearing.

 

...and sometimes it's the video.

[S5Dewey]

Any thoughts on firing a fastball with the intent to hit the batter ?

 

Let's not go the deflection route. Right now the discussion is about Machado.