2018 Starting Rotation Mega Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Every team has a good rotation if the pitchers are healthy and pitch well. But the issue is - what happens when everything doesn't go your way?

 

You're saying our rotation in 2015 was just as good as this one?

[notin]

You're saying our rotation in 2015 was just as good as this one?

 

 

Is that even close to what I said?

[Bellhorn04]

Is that even close to what I said?

 

You said every team potentially has a good rotation. That would imply that every pitcher who starts the year in a major league rotation is about equal, if they stay healthy and pitch to their abilities.

[Kingface]

As already mentioned......I'd keep my eyes on E-Rod. The kid has to me the 2nd nastiest stuff out of any of our starters (Sale obviously #1). He has not had a healthy season in years and is going to be only 25yo this coming April......which is really the beginning of a pitchers prime years. If he can come back healthy I expect him to fill the #4 spot in the rotation quite well.

[Larry Cook]

Watching sale take one off the hip yesterday was a bit scary!

 

We need him to b healthy for the start of the regular season.

[notin]

You said every team potentially has a good rotation. That would imply that every pitcher who starts the year in a major league rotation is about equal, if they stay healthy and pitch to their abilities.

 

No.

 

I said every rotation is good when every pitcher is and pitching well. They are. The Sox 2015 rotation didn't accomplish the latter. May complaints were the"lack of an ace", but given that Porcello was one year away from a Cu Young, read that all that true?

 

Compare the Sox 2015 top the Royals from that year. (Volsquez, Ventura, Duffy, Young, and Guthrie. Wad that rotation so much better? ("More potential" doesn't mean "better" at least not for 2015.) That KC rotation did won a World Series that year. ...

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

I said every rotation is good when every pitcher is and pitching well. They are. The Sox 2015 rotation didn't accomplish the latter. May complaints were the"lack of an ace", but given that Porcello was one year away from a Cu Young, read that all that true?

 

Compare the Sox 2015 top the Royals from that year. (Volsquez, Ventura, Duffy, Young, and Guthrie. Wad that rotation so much better? ("More potential" doesn't mean "better" at least not for 2015.) That KC rotation did won a World Series that year. ...

 

OK. This started off with you saying Sale, Price, Porcello, Johnson and Vazquez is a 'pretty bad rotation to start the year'.

 

That seems rather pessimistic to me, considering that Johnson has looked pretty good, and Pomeranz is expected back quickly.

 

My sense is that your real gripe is with DD not picking up any dumpster dives yet. Apparently he was trying but couldn't find any takers because the dumpster dives saw better opportunities with other teams.

[notin]

Its a very shallow rotation because the season hasn't even starred yet and we already have three injured starters. Velasquez is a nice story with the occasional good putting, but do you really want 180 innings from him? We all hope Rodriguez is bank mid-April, but he hasn't been very reliable so far. I actually don't mind Wright being out.

 

Yes or depth is poor...

[Bellhorn04]

Its a very shallow rotation because the season hasn't even starred yet and we already have three injured starters. Velasquez is a nice story with the occasional good putting, but do you really want 180 innings from him? We all hope Rodriguez is bank mid-April, but he hasn't been very reliable so far. I actually don't mind Wright being out.

 

Yes or depth is poor...

 

Here's a question:

 

Can you name a Boston Red Sox team that actually had good to great rotation depth at the start of a season?

[Hugh2]

Here's a question:

 

Can you name a Boston Red Sox team that actually had good to great rotation depth at the start of a season?

 

To be fair, how many people can remember the 5th/6th/7th/8th starter options for any team outside of it's present year????

[cp176]

Here's a question:

 

Can you name a Boston Red Sox team that actually had good to great rotation depth at the start of a season?

 

I can't!

Pomeranz - minor injury expected back very soon

E-Rod - throwing expected back early

Wright - already throwing (I would have traded him when he was at his best - if not named Wakefield I'm not into knuckleballers)

Sale - Price - Porcello - Johnson - good to go

We might not have everyone good to start next Thursday but I'm thinking that this is a very good group and soon enough the overall depth will look fine as well.

 

There are definitely posters here who just don't like DD. I think that he has been fairly thorough. Thing for me is that he doesn't have to do what I think that he should and I might even disagree with him from time to time, but I still think he is doing a good job in a very tough racket.

[notin]

Here's a question:

 

Can you name a Boston Red Sox team that actually had good to great rotation depth at the start of a season?

 

 

Absolutely. I'll start with the team that brought in Bronson Arroyo on a minor league deal. Maybe not the most recent, but certainly the most significant.

 

You never know at the start of the season who are going to be the best depth options. WHich is why every off-season, Epstein's very first move was to sign half a dozen our do pitchers to minor league deals. Most of these pitchers never saw MLB, but every now and then, he'd get a difference maker like Arroyo or someone who who be dealt for a significant difference maker, like Brandon Lyon (packaged for Schilling).

 

But, hey, why explore rarely successful depth tactics when you've already got a rotaruon depletef to the point of using Hector Velasquez and Brian Johnson in the rotation?

[harmony]

Here's a question:

 

Can you name a Boston Red Sox team that actually had good to great rotation depth at the start of a season?

The 2009 team had Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Tim Wakefield, Clay Buchholz, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Smoltz, Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden and Daniel Bard.

[notin]

To be fair, how many people can remember the 5th/6th/7th/8th starter options for any team outside of it's present year????

 

 

 

The 2007 team has Jon Lester and Kason Gabbard waiting for their chances. Forget about Lester, right now the Sox don't even have the equal to Gabbard. ..

Edited March 25, 2018 by notin

[harmony]

The 2007 team has Jon Lester and Kason Gabbard waiting for their chances. Forget about Lester, right now the Sox don't even have the equal to Gabbard. ..

Not to mention Clay Buchholz, who was called up in August of that year and pitched a no-hitter in his second start:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=buchhcl01&t=p&year=2007

[Hugh2]

I was just going to say Clay Buchholz, but he wasn't really a depth option to start the season. He was an A ball prospect with promise who took a huge jump forward during the season and shot up the ladder. No one would have guessed that in in spring training.

 

The team did have other talent then as well but none were really close to the majors. Of course if Clay could have made that jump then hypothetically Michael Bowden and Daniel Bard could have too.

 

I would also say that Brian Johnson may very well end up having a better career than Kason Gabbard. It would be nice to not have to pay to replace Pomeranz.

[notin]

Not to mention Clay Buchholz, who was called up in August of that year and pitched a no-hitter in his second start:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=buchhcl01&t=p&year=2007

 

See? In a Subject about depth, I didn't even bring up the pitcher responsible for the most exciting start of the season.

 

But, hey, maybe everyone else is right. Depth isn't important. If pitchers get hurt, you simply quit on the season. Thankfully the Sox don't have any injured pitchers (except Pomeranz, Rodriguez, and Wright) or any pitchers at risk (except Price and Thornburg).

 

I know some of these guys are "due back soon, " which is important, because players always come back as scheduled and at 100% and "soon" NEVER drags into July.

 

So depth is unnecessary. Except for some reason the third string catcher. There depth is vital and THAT guy should be considered untouchable. ...

Edited March 25, 2018 by notin

[moonslav59]

The 2009 team had Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Tim Wakefield, Clay Buchholz, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Smoltz, Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden and Daniel Bard.

 

I was about to go back and check around this time in Sox history.

 

2010 had Lester, Lackey, Buch, Dice-K, Wake and Doubront

 

2008 had Lester, Beckett, Buch, Dice-K, Wake, Masterson & Colon

 

2007 didn't need depth, but Tavarez gave us 23 decent starts, and Gabbard gave us 7. Buch was our 8th starter.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

The 2009 team had Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Tim Wakefield, Clay Buchholz, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Smoltz, Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden and Daniel Bard.

 

Bard was a reliever, no?

 

Penny - 5.61 ERA

Smoltz - 8.33 ERA

Bowden - 9.56 ERA

 

Yes, lots of warm bodies that took the mound, but that doesn't in itself constitute good or great depth.

[Bellhorn04]

See? In a Subject about depth, I didn't even bring up the pitcher responsible for the most exciting start of the season.

 

But, hey, maybe everyone else is right. Depth isn't important. If pitchers get hurt, you simply quit on the season. Thankfully the Sox don't have any injured pitchers (except Pomeranz, Rodriguez, and Wright) or any pitchers at risk (except Price and Thornburg).

 

I know some of these guys are "due back soon, " which is important, because players always come back as scheduled and at 100% and "soon" NEVER drags into July.

 

So depth is unnecessary. Except for some reason the third string catcher. There depth is vital and THAT guy should be considered untouchable. ...

 

notin, you're freaking out, man LOL

 

Dombrowski is not unaware that sometimes you have to make a move for another pitcher during the season.

 

He did trade for Pomeranz in 2016.

 

He did acquire Fister in 2017.

[Kimmi]

notin, you're freaking out, man LOL

 

Dombrowski is not unaware that sometimes you have to make a move for another pitcher during the season.

 

He did trade for Pomeranz in 2016.

 

He did acquire Fister in 2017.

 

Notin has a valid argument.

 

Our starting pitching depth, or lack thereof, is a valid concern.

 

It may turn out that our guys stay healthy and we don't need the depth.

 

But that is taking a rather big risk.

[Bellhorn04]

Notin has a valid argument.

 

Our starting pitching depth, or lack thereof, is a valid concern.

 

It may turn out that our guys stay healthy and we don't need the depth.

 

But that is taking a rather big risk.

 

But what's the answer? There was a story that DD was trying to sign guys to minor-league deals and guys weren't interested because there were better opportunities elsewhere.

 

I think rotation depth is a big concern for every team and always has been.

[Kimmi]

But what's the answer? There was a story that DD was trying to sign guys to minor-league deals and guys weren't interested because there were better opportunities elsewhere.

 

I think rotation depth is a big concern for every team and always has been.

 

Yes, I read that and acknowledged that Dombrowski kind of had his hands tied in that regard.

 

My post was more in response to those who don't think that starting pitching depth is a concern, not as much in response to Dombrowski not signing anyone yet.

 

That said, I'm having a difficult time accepting that we haven't signed any dumpster dive type pitchers, despite the seemingly lack of opportunity here.

[cp176]

See? In a Subject about depth, I didn't even bring up the pitcher responsible for the most exciting start of the season.

 

But, hey, maybe everyone else is right. Depth isn't important. If pitchers get hurt, you simply quit on the season. Thankfully the Sox don't have any injured pitchers (except Pomeranz, Rodriguez, and Wright) or any pitchers at risk (except Price and Thornburg).

 

I know some of these guys are "due back soon, " which is important, because players always come back as scheduled and at 100% and "soon" NEVER drags into July.

 

So depth is unnecessary. Except for some reason the third string catcher. There depth is vital and THAT guy should be considered untouchable. ...

 

We all think that depth is unimportant for God's sake and every signing DD has made just flat out sucks - honestly who hired that moron? lol

[Kimmi]

We all think that depth is unimportant for God's sake and every signing DD has made just flat out sucks - honestly who hired that moron? lol

 

Well, Dombrowski is certainly no Theo.

[cp176]

Well, Dombrowski is certainly no Theo.

 

Now let me see what would you say - ha!

[Bellhorn04]

We have 9 pitchers who have started major league games. It's not the greatest depth but is it really that far from normal depth?

 

The real problem, I would say, is that 4 of our top 6, Price, Pomeranz, E-Rod and Wright all have lingering health questions. But that's just the way it is. If the questions have mostly bad answers, then yes, we're in trouble.

[Kimmi]

Now let me see what would you say - ha!

 

Personally, I don't even think Dombrowski is a Ben. But that's just me.

[Kimmi]

We have 9 pitchers who have started major league games. It's not the greatest depth but is it really that far from normal depth?

 

The real problem, I would say, is that 4 of our top 6, Price, Pomeranz, E-Rod and Wright all have lingering health questions. But that's just the way it is. If the questions have mostly bad answers, then yes, we're in trouble.

 

Fair enough.

 

I have felt all along that we should have focused on adding a #2/3 starter instead of a bat. Rotation depth has always been the bigger concern for me.

[cp176]

Personally, I don't even think Dombrowski is a Ben. But that's just me.

 

You are chumming the waters but I'm not taking the bait. I'm perfectly ok with you thinking that Ben Cherington was a better GM than DD. If you are ok with that one, it is all good. I learn new things here everyday.