Sox re-sign Mitch Moreland

[Slasher9]

I think he thinks more of himself than we do.

 

dear god i hope so.

[S5Dewey]

 

Price isn’t opting out. He’s got a deal that right now still pays him elite market rate. His elbow issue and his 2016 season will dog him. I guess he could opt out if he goes 20-5 with a 3.20ERA, but otherwise I think you’re stuck with him. And the interesting thing is, if Price does do that, then you’re going to want him to opt in!

 

 

Yep. Which is why I thought this was an insane contract to begin with!!

[mvp 78]

Yep. Which is why I thought this was an insane contract to begin with!!

 

The cost of signing an ace caliber pitcher on the open market when your team (a) efffff's up and trades away their ace after lowballing him and (2) can't develop or draft starting pitching adequately.

[Spudboy]

Yep. Which is why I thought this was an insane contract to begin with!!

 

Insane? Maybe.

 

But what was DD to do when he took over a team whose rotation was a shell of what it had been do to the inexplicable malfeasance of Cherries?

 

Sox needed a front line guy, and ace. DD went out and signed one of those guys because he had to.

 

Yeah, 217 mil for 7 years is not a contract I would bet on to be worth it at the end. But I think it was a necessary evil at the time.

[Spudboy]

The cost of signing an ace caliber pitcher on the open market when your team (a) efffff's up and trades away their ace after lowballing him and (2) can't develop or draft starting pitching adequately.

 

This.

[moonslav59]

By what metric does Hanley have value? I can't see any other team wanting to cover more than $2M of his salary.

 

He has enough potential to carry more than $2M.

 

Look, someone took Buchholz last winter! If that doesn't show potential value = dollars, what does?

 

HRam is 1 year removed from a $2.7 WAR year and 3 years removed from a 3.4 WAR. 4 years ago he put up a 5.1 WAR in a half season at age 29.

 

Yes, he turns 34 in a couple days, but he's worth more than $2M. My guess is, if he was a FA, he'd sign for at least $6-8M/1. If we offered to pay $15M of his $22M plus some sort of cash for the vest, if it happens, we'd find a taker.

[SCM33]

I don't expect the Sox to clear up the logjam until they actually have the logjam. If they sign Martinez, then maybe they start exploring trading Bradley again.

 

I know a lot of fans think this hurts Bradley's trade value, but it really doesn't. If other teams want him, they'll make their best offers they are willing to make. If multiple teams are interested, which is likely, then teams do have to outbid each other. Bradley's value is based on his performance, salary, years of control, and how badly or not other teams want him. Not on the Sox depth chart...

 

No. Again, IMO the only people that think Bradley has any value.....are RedSox fans.

 

I haven't heard a single rumor related to a single team actually wanting him. There was a report on DEC.11th that he was made available to at least 6 teams. A couple days later DD states the report was false. My take, he was made available and nobody gave a s***. To avoid hurting his potential future trade value, declared the report false.

[S5Dewey]

Insane? Maybe.

 

But what was DD to do when he took over a team whose rotation was a shell of what it had been do to the inexplicable malfeasance of Cherries?

 

Sox needed a front line guy, and ace. DD went out and signed one of those guys because he had to.

 

Yeah, 210 mil for 7 years is not a contract I would bet on to be worth it at the end. But I think it was a necessary evil at the time.

 

I agree with all of that but it doesn't alter the fact that it was an insane contract.

 

IMO the problem with the contract wasn't the money. I know that kind of money was necessary to sign him. My problem with it is that with his opt-out a) if he's worth that salary the team loses him and has to try to resign another CY caliber pitcher, hopefully for the same money, or if he's not worth that salary the team is stuck with him - and his salary.

 

Price had them over a barrel. He could have included a clause that he got one weekend a month with JH's wife and they still would have had to sign him. The fact that it had to be done doesn't make it any more 'sane'.

[moonslav59]

with money saved on signing Moreland instead of Homer does that open money up for a reunion with Nunez and a SP

 

It's not "money saved." We're over the luxury limit already.

[FredLynn]

No. Again, IMO the only people that think Bradley has any value.....are RedSox fans.

 

I haven't heard a single rumor related to a single team actually wanting him. There was a report on DEC.11th that he was made available to at least 6 teams. A couple days later DD states the report was false. My take, he was made available and nobody gave a s***. To avoid hurting his potential future trade value, declared the report false.

 

Guess which position player last year had the second highest WAR value......

[mvp 78]

He has enough potential to carry more than $2M.

 

Look, someone took Buchholz last winter! If that doesn't show potential value = dollars, what does?

 

HRam is 1 year removed from a $2.7 WAR year and 3 years removed from a 3.4 WAR. 4 years ago he put up a 5.1 WAR in a half season at age 29.

 

Yes, he turns 34 in a couple days, but he's worth more than $2M. My guess is, if he was a FA, he'd sign for at least $6-8M/1. If we offered to pay $15M of his $22M plus some sort of cash for the vest, if it happens, we'd find a taker.

 

He was a negative WAR player last year who has suffered through shoulder injuries for the past 3 years. He has NO value. Chris Iannetta didn't even sign for $6M. Why would Hanley in a season with a ton of FA 1b inventory? Mitch Moreland only signed for $6.5AAV and you would give Hanley $8M? That's just crazy.

[moonslav59]

Guess which position player last year had the second highest WAR value......

 

According to fangraphs, Bogey, but JBJ was 3rd.

 

5.3 Betts

3.2 Bogey

2.3 JBJ

2.2 Beni

1.9 Pedey

1.6 Vaz

1.2 Nunez

0.9 Moreland

0.9 Devers

 

WAR per game:

0.0346 Betts

0.0315 Nunez

0.0216 Bogey

0.0181 Pedey

0.0173 JBJ

0.0162 Vaz

0.0155 Devers

0.0146 Beni

0.0060 Moreland

0.0035 Leon

 

 

 

[SCM33]

Hanley is too good to just release at the moment. I would just "platoon" or relegate him to the bench in case of injury and MAKE SURE he doesn't get thoose AB's he needs. Wish Panda had that clause in his contract too...

 

Too good? Hanley as in Hanley Ramirez?

 

oh boy. proof please?

there is absolutely zero truth to your post. the narrative that hanram complains or throws tantrums is 100% false. the man has done everything...EVERYTHING...the Red Sox have asked him to do. without complaining once.

 

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on May 11th, 12th and 13th after being asked to play 1B for the first time last year?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on June 15th, 16th and 17th after being asked to play 1B for the second time last year?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on August 5th, 6th, and the 8th after being asked to play 1B?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on August 14th after being asked to play 1B?

 

Yeah, your right. It never happened.

[mvp 78]

No. Again, IMO the only people that think Bradley has any value.....are RedSox fans.

 

I haven't heard a single rumor related to a single team actually wanting him. There was a report on DEC.11th that he was made available to at least 6 teams. A couple days later DD states the report was false. My take, he was made available and nobody gave a s***. To avoid hurting his potential future trade value, declared the report false.

 

The Giants want him. DD said the report was false because if he's shopping JBJ then JD Martinez believes he has more power in negotiations.

[FredLynn]

According to fangraphs, Bogey, but JBJ was 3rd.

 

5.3 Betts

3.2 Bogey

2.3 JBJ

2.2 Beni

1.9 Pedey

1.6 Vaz

1.2 Nunez

0.9 Moreland

0.9 Devers

 

WAR per game:

0.0346 Betts

0.0315 Nunez

0.0216 Bogey

0.0181 Pedey

0.0173 JBJ

0.0162 Vaz

0.0155 Devers

0.0146 Beni

0.0060 Moreland

0.0035 Leon

 

 

 

 

According to BR it was ............JBJ. Bogey wasn't even third. Benintendi was.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2017.shtml

[SCM33]

Guess which position player last year had the second highest WAR value......

 

That isnt saying much. They were one of the weakest offensive teams in the last 30 years.

[moonslav59]

He was a negative WAR player last year who has suffered through shoulder injuries for the past 3 years. He has NO value. Chris Iannetta didn't even sign for $6M. Why would Hanley in a season with a ton of FA 1b inventory? Mitch Moreland only signed for $6.5AAV and you would give Hanley $8M? That's just crazy.

 

I'd play HRam more than Moreland despite the defensive loss at 1B.

 

GMs do not look at just the one previous season.

 

(I'm assuming he passes a physical, otherwise, his value is negative.)

[moonslav59]

Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported "several" teams have had discussions with the Red Sox regarding Bradley. Rob Bradford of WEEI added the Kansas City Royals have interest, but there does not appear to be an obvious fit.

 

The Guardians have reportedly asked about JBJ for years.

[mvp 78]

I'd play HRam more than Moreland despite the defensive loss at 1B.

 

GMs do not look at just the one previous season.

 

(I'm assuming he passes a physical, otherwise, his value is negative.)

 

Well, he's not passing that physical. Sox won't let him.

 

You are right, GM's won't just look at 2017 HanRam, they'll also look at his injury riddled career and 2015 when he sucked too.

[FredLynn]

That isnt saying much. They were one of the weakest offensive teams in the last 30 years.

 

I am not a big fan of JBJ, but to say that he has "no value except to Red Sox fans" is inaccurate. True, he is not very good offensively, but defensively he is a wizard, and he does have a favorable contract.

[moonslav59]

Well, he's not passing that physical. Sox won't let him.

 

You are right, GM's won't just look at 2017 HanRam, they'll also look at his injury riddled career and 2015 when he sucked too.

 

I'm talking about the physical the other team would give HRam assuming we trade him this winter.

[moonslav59]

I am not a big fan of JBJ, but to say that he has "no value except to Red Sox fans" is inaccurate. True, he is not very good offensively, but defensively he is a wizard, and he does have a favorable contract.

 

Not true about not being "very good offensively," unless you look at just 2017 numbers.

 

Out of 34 CF'ers with 1,000 + PAs from 2015-2017, JBJ places,,,

(They have Betts and Cespedes listed as CF'er)

 

13th in OPS at .793 (certainly very good)

6th in ISO at .201

10th in HRs at 53

9th in RBIs at 193

 

 

[moonslav59]

If someone thinks the #10 offensive CF'er (15th at worst) and top 5 defensive CF'er is hardly valuable at all, they need glasses.

[Spudboy]

He has enough potential to carry more than $2M.

 

Look, someone took Buchholz last winter! If that doesn't show potential value = dollars, what does?

 

HRam is 1 year removed from a $2.7 WAR year and 3 years removed from a 3.4 WAR. 4 years ago he put up a 5.1 WAR in a half season at age 29.

 

Yes, he turns 34 in a couple days, but he's worth more than $2M. My guess is, if he was a FA, he'd sign for at least $6-8M/1. If we offered to pay $15M of his $22M plus some sort of cash for the vest, if it happens, we'd find a taker.

 

I agree.

 

This post also shows how badly the Sox misjudged his value on a 4-5 year deal if he is only worth 6-8 mil in FA now.

[SCM33]

If someone thinks the #10 offensive CF'er (15th at worst) and top 5 defensive CF'er is hardly valuable at all, they need glasses.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=21,d

 

You really like to cherry pick stats bro.

 

Based on MLB CF's who are QUALIFIED to be ranked....

 

Bradley is 15 out of 18 Offensively

Bradley is 6 out of 18 Defensively

Combined, he is 12 out of 18

 

Yeah, he is 15th....out of 18!!!!

 

What a PRIZE. We should be so lucky.

 

...that was all for WAR, and if the stat you were using OPS, well...he was also 15 out of 18 there as well.

Edited December 19, 2017 by SCM33

[SCM33]

I am not a big fan of JBJ, but to say that he has "no value except to Red Sox fans" is inaccurate. True, he is not very good offensively, but defensively he is a wizard, and he does have a favorable contract.

 

My problem with him is that he is extremely overvalued. People want to s*** all over Price for what he did to Eckersley. Little known to a lot of RedSox fans, JBJ was the original ******* that had a problem with Eckersley for calling it as it was.

[cp176]

My problem with him is that he is extremely overvalued. People want to s*** all over Price for what he did to Eckersley. Little known to a lot of RedSox fans, JBJ was the original ******* that had a problem with Eckersley for calling it as it was.

 

I was aware of it. The problem I see for many of us really though is that we tend to seriously overrate prospects that show any potential at all. Most of them just aren't that GD good when compared to what other teams have.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Hanley was a FA right now, he’d get a minor league deal with an invite to ST. He’d have a conditional salary around $3-$4 mil if he made the team

[Michigan adam]

something doesn't smell right there...as there are many more than 18 MLB teams....Are the others so limited to not have people qualify with enough at bats. If so that would make them worse than the 18...

[SCM33]

I was aware of it. The problem I see for many of us really though is that we tend to seriously overrate prospects that show any potential at all. Most of them just aren't that GD good when compared to what other teams have.

 

Its been this way for a while. Theo was extremely good at bluffing. He would hype someone to the moon, then use them to acquire an asset. The problem lately, is that we hype a lot of players up....but other teams smell the ******** and we get stuck with that overhyped player either hoping they will produce, or asking questions about why they didn't.