2018 Hall of Fame Class

[mvp 78]

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/11/06/the-veterans-committee-modern-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot-is-out/

 

Modern Baseball Era Committee has released the 10 names they are considering:

 

Steve Garvey

Tommy John

Don Mattingly

Marvin Miller

Jack Morris

Dale Murphy

Dave Parker

Ted Simmons

Luis Tiant

Alan Trammell

 

Trammell deserves to be in. Marvin Miller, the long time MLBPA Executive Director, probably should be in. Maybe Tiant? I don't think any of the other guys are really deserving. The fact that Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker isn't on this list is a travesty. They are far more deserving than Parker, Murphy, Morris, Mattingly or Garvey.

[Slasher9]

i dont think the veterans committee has ever voted someone in?

 

I will be up at Cooperstown for this year's induction as my 12U boys will be at a tournament that week. will be my first time visiting the HoF.

[mvp 78]

i dont think the veterans committee has ever voted someone in?

 

I will be up at Cooperstown for this year's induction as my 12U boys will be at a tournament that week. will be my first time visiting the HoF.

 

There have been numerous different committees that have voted players and executives in. Guys like Ron Santo have been voted in posthumously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Committee

[mvp 78]

https://www.amazon.com/Cooperstown-Casebook-Baseball-Should-Plaques/dp/1250071216

 

I just started reading this last week. The Hall of Fame is basically a s*** show.

[Bellhorn04]

1. Luis Tiant

2. Tommy John Surgery

[Kimmi]

IMO, the HOF should be reserved or the truly, truly elite. Someone once said that if people have to debate about whether a player should get in or not, then he probably shouldn't get in. Makes sense to me.

[Northern Star]

IMO, the HOF should be reserved or the truly, truly elite. Someone once said that if people have to debate about whether a player should get in or not, then he probably shouldn't get in. Makes sense to me.

 

Agreed. Once the lowest guy is in, that becomes the new benchmark, and before long, we've got the Hall of the Very Good. You can't set specific targets, because that will affect how guys play the game, putting their stats first.

[Bellhorn04]

Luis Tiant should be in, I think. His WAR is high enough.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jack Morris is right on the cusp. Baseball reference has him above the average HOFer in grey ink, but below in black ink. He's over by a lot in the Hall of Fame monitor but below in the standards. Also, his memorable moment throwing a 10 inning CG SO in game 7 of the world series

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed. Once the lowest guy is in, that becomes the new benchmark, and before long, we've got the Hall of the Very Good. You can set specific targets, because that will affect how guys play the game, putting their stats first.

 

Like it or not, every Hall of Fame ends up as a Hall of the Very Good. It's more fun to have more inductees and more ceremonies, so the bar does get dropped a bit.

[Northern Star]

Like it or not, every Hall of Fame ends up as a Hall of the Very Good. It's more fun to have more inductees and more ceremonies, so the bar does get dropped a bit.

 

Yep. Same with retired numbers for a lot of teams.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

For a period of time, Dale Murphy was one of the most dominant players in the game. I'm not sure if I see the argument for letting Jim Rice in but not Dale Murphy.

 

If you let Phil Rizzuto in, you probably need to let Trammel in as well. With that said, Rizzuto never should have made the HOF and I'm not sold on Trammel either, not enough offensive output. Take away Trammel's 1987 season and there isn't enough power numbers or high batting averages for me. He was great in 1987 but I may need a few more seasons like that one before letting him in.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Thank you, Joe Morgan. This will hopefully keep Bonds and Clemons out.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21502885/joe-morgan-asks-voters-block-ped-users-baseball-hall-fame

 

The HOF needs to pass a rule: if evidence surfaces that a HOF took PEDs, the HOF should be able to take executive action of some sort and immediately remove that player from the HOF. The fear is that conclusive evidence will surface of PED use by guys like Piazza, Bagwell, and Ivan Rodriguez. If that happens, you remove that player from the Hall. It's that simple.

 

It'll be interesting to see the % of vote that Bonds and Clemons receive this year. I think their support will go down. That will be a bad sign for drug addicts like Manny and A-Rod.

[Carpin]

Thank you, Joe Morgan. This will hopefully keep Bonds and Clemons out.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21502885/joe-morgan-asks-voters-block-ped-users-baseball-hall-fame

 

The HOF needs to pass a rule: if evidence surfaces that a HOF took PEDs, the HOF should be able to take executive action of some sort and immediately remove that player from the HOF. The fear is that conclusive evidence will surface of PED use by guys like Piazza, Bagwell, and Ivan Rodriguez. If that happens, you remove that player from the Hall. It's that simple.

 

It'll be interesting to see the % of vote that Bonds and Clemons receive this year. I think their support will go down. That will be a bad sign for drug addicts like Manny and A-Rod.

 

I agree with you, but the problem is with the ones who were never caught or those who were very popular among the press will get in.

 

For example Rickey Henderson & Mike Piazza were never caught and are already in the HOF, basically the "best cheater" will be rewarded. I agree that there are no solid reports of them linked to PED's but in the Henderson case he was with the A's when almost everybody in that clubhouse was using for me is very suspicious; and with Piazza you just need to see the numbers in his peak years and those were huge in a very demanding position during the PED rampage years.

 

There might be a few cheaters already in the HOF which we don't know about, there's no way that the voting will ever be fair.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with you, but the problem is with the ones who were never caught or those who were very popular among the press will get in.

 

For example Rickey Henderson & Mike Piazza were never caught and are already in the HOF, basically the "best cheater" will be rewarded. I agree that there are no solid reports of them linked to PED's but in the Henderson case he was with the A's when almost everybody in that clubhouse was using for me is very suspicious; and with Piazza you just need to see the numbers in his peak years and those were huge in a very demanding position during the PED rampage years.

 

There might be a few cheaters already in the HOF which we don't know about, there's no way that the voting will ever be fair.

 

Agree 100%.

 

I would also note there have been some articles criticizing Morgan's letter as inappropriate.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

There is a big difference between voting for someone who was a definite PED drug user (Bonds, Clemons, Manny, A-Rod, Mcgwire, Palmerio) versus voting for someone who may (or may not) have used PEDs (Piazza, Bagwell, Henderson). The HOF will be a disgrace if they let in the former group (definite drug users). The latter group is an unknown--the result of imperfect information.

 

Sure, we have imperfect information, that is the reality of life, and so, yes, drug users will get into the HOF. But there is a big difference between that and voting for players who were definite juicers.

 

Once you let definite juicers into the HOF, the standards (and ideals) of sportsmanship, fair play, etc., will be greatly diminished throughout our society. The HOF has a responsibility to not let that happen.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[notin]

There is a big difference between voting for someone who was a definite PED drug user (Bonds, Clemons, Manny, A-Rod, Mcgwire, Palmerio) versus voting for someone who may (or may not) have used PEDs (Piazza, Bagwell, Henderson). The HOF will be a disgrace if they let in the former group (definite drug users). The latter group is an unknown--the result of imperfect information.

 

Sure, we have imperfect information, that is the reality of life, and so, yes, drug users will get into the HOF. But there is a big difference between that and voting for players who were definite juicers.

 

Once you let definite juicers into the HOF, the standards (and ideals) of sportsmanship, fair play, etc., will be greatly diminished throughout our society. The HOF has a responsibility to not let that happen.

 

Thwe Hall of Fame is a museum, and the job of a museum is to preserve history, not to censor it.

 

Also there are arguments to be made that no one you named as a definite PED user even cheated...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Thwe Hall of Fame is a museum, and the job of a museum is to preserve history, not to censor it.

 

Also there are arguments to be made that no one you named as a definite PED user even cheated...

 

PED users have distorted history. It is a history that baseball should not celebrate.

 

Also there are arguments to be made that no one you named as a definite PED user even cheated

This is totally wrong. Manny was caught cheating twice (two failed tests). Palmerio was caught cheating once. McGwire has now admitted to using PEDs, using the A.Pettitte ******** excuse: for injuries. A-Rod never failed a test but he admitted to using PEDs while with the Rangers. Moreover, in exchange for immunity, A-Rod testified under oath that he used PEDs while a member of the New York Yankees. Bonds hasn't admitted to it, but he was associated with that clinic. Clemons hasn't admitted to it, but most people think he is lying and there is pretty strong evidence that he took PEDs. The evidence is conclusive enough, but each HOF voter will need to make that decision on his own. If they feel the evidence is there, they shouldn't vote for a Clemons.

 

There is a huge difference between the players listed above and the R.Henderson, I.Rodriguez, Piazza types. That is, there is a difference between hard evidence and innuendo. We have hard evidence for the players listed above; innuendo for the second group. Let the second group in, but the HOF should reserve the right to remove players if evidence surfaces after they have been put into the HOF. To be sure, we already have evidence for the first group.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Bellhorn04]

So Morris gets in instead of Tiant. Bad call IMO.

[mvp 78]

Jack Morris sucks.

[mvp 78]

Thank you, Joe Morgan. This will hopefully keep Bonds and Clemons out.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21502885/joe-morgan-asks-voters-block-ped-users-baseball-hall-fame

 

The HOF needs to pass a rule: if evidence surfaces that a HOF took PEDs, the HOF should be able to take executive action of some sort and immediately remove that player from the HOF. The fear is that conclusive evidence will surface of PED use by guys like Piazza, Bagwell, and Ivan Rodriguez. If that happens, you remove that player from the Hall. It's that simple.

 

It'll be interesting to see the % of vote that Bonds and Clemons receive this year. I think their support will go down. That will be a bad sign for drug addicts like Manny and A-Rod.

 

Papi won't get in then.

[mvp 78]

Luis Tiant should be in, I think. His WAR is high enough.

 

So much more deserving than Morris. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_P.shtml

[Kimmi]

Let the stat geeks vote, I'm telling you.

 

They'll get it right.

[notin]

PED users have distorted history. It is a history that baseball should not celebrate.

 

 

This is totally wrong. Manny was caught cheating twice (two failed tests). Palmerio was caught cheating once. McGwire has now admitted to using PEDs, using the A.Pettitte ******** excuse: for injuries. A-Rod never failed a test but he admitted to using PEDs while with the Rangers. Moreover, in exchange for immunity, A-Rod testified under oath that he used PEDs while a member of the New York Yankees. Bonds hasn't admitted to it, but he was associated with that clinic. Clemons hasn't admitted to it, but most people think he is lying and there is pretty strong evidence that he took PEDs. The evidence is conclusive enough, but each HOF voter will need to make that decision on his own. If they feel the evidence is there, they shouldn't vote for a Clemons.

 

There is a huge difference between the players listed above and the R.Henderson, I.Rodriguez, Piazza types. That is, there is a difference between hard evidence and innuendo. We have hard evidence for the players listed above; innuendo for the second group. Let the second group in, but the HOF should reserve the right to remove players if evidence surfaces after they have been put into the HOF. To be sure, we already have evidence for the first group.

 

 

MLB also operated using a list of banned substances, and several players circumvented that rule by having new substances developed that were not banned. While one can argue it violated the spirit of the law, it did not violate the letter of the law. Bonds is a prime example of this.

 

It's also a viable argument that it did not even violate the spirit of the law, since baseball's drug policy at the time was geared to removing cocaine from the game, not steroids. This policy, which included illegal steroids and all illegal drugs, was created to clean up the image of a game tainted by the Pittsburgh Drug Trials, by Steve Howe and his seven lifetime suspensions, by Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden, and by the four KC Royals who spent an off-season in prison, among other notable instances. Preventing home runs was not the goal...

Edited December 23, 2017 by notin

[a700hitter]

Let the stat geeks vote, I'm telling you.

 

They'll get it right.

All Former players and managers should vote. No sportswriters and absolutely no geeks. People who played the game are in the best position to judge greatness.

[Bellhorn04]

All Former players and managers should vote. No sportswriters and absolutely no geeks. People who played the game are in the best position to judge greatness.

 

Maybe a cross-section of all those people.

 

It was managers who awarded a Gold Glove to Rafael Palmeiro in 1999 when he only played 28 games in the field.

 

Aren't you a believer that managers are a bunch of morons?

[a700hitter]

Maybe a cross-section of all those people.

 

It was managers who awarded a Gold Glove to Rafael Palmeiro in 1999 when he only played 28 games in the field.

 

Aren't you a believer that managers are a bunch of morons?

Former Players would far outweigh the managers. I do believe that managers fall into the idiot category, but they know how to play the game and they know who is good and who is not. What they don't know how to do is manage -- the one thing they are paid to do.

[Spudboy]

Former Players would far outweigh the managers. I do believe that managers fall into the idiot category, but they know how to play the game and they know who is good and who is not. What they don't know how to do is manage -- the one thing they are paid to do.

 

Yeah players, managers and coaches should be able to do a batter job than the press. They know the game best and see everything up close.

[mvp 78]

All Former players and managers should vote. No sportswriters and absolutely no geeks. People who played the game are in the best position to judge greatness.

 

Isn't that what all the veteran's committee ******** is? They went years and years without electing anyone. Back in the day, players just selected their buddies for the HOF.

[mvp 78]

Yeah players, managers and coaches should be able to do a batter job than the press. They know the game best and see everything up close.

 

They are also a very biased source.