Stanton or Votto

[moonslav59]

Too many moving pieces. Anything we do is going to be an elaborate process involving either so many moving parts the points of failure approach infinity, or Flora taking a risk of winding up with diddly out of the trade of the best player that has graced their roster since Miggy.

 

Florida doesn't want low-floor high ceiling prospects and a guy whose clock has started. There are plenty of teams that can deal from a position of strength and give up the kind of prospects the Marlins will want without deviating from their strategy that much. We simply are not one of those teams. Stanton isn't coming here, Votto surely isn't coming here. We'll all enjoy the happy fantasy and then eventually people come back to earth and hopefully DD will have snagged an actual 1B by Opening Day while the fans whiled away the hot stove season chasing fairytale trade proposals like usual.

 

I'd hate to have to rest the franchise on Sam Travis's back during a year when we're supposed to be contenders just because someone in power got infested with toxic brain fluff and couldn't let go of the Don Quixote fantasy of landing a guy like Stanton in this offseason. Not like it's gonna happen, we'll probably just sign Hosmer as long as DD is prepared to make a competitive offer. The fact that Sam Travis is the alternative should encourage him to be appropriately generous, anyhow.

 

3 team trades are not that complicated.

 

Or, we just trade JBJ,and maybe Hembree and/or Holt for prospects and then trade prospects for Stanton, perhaps including one or two we picked up in the JBJ trade.

[Dojji]

3 team trades are not that complicated.

 

You're right they're not, but there's at least 5 teams out there that could buy Stanton straight up if they decided to.

 

Or, we just trade JBJ,and maybe Hembree and/or Holt for prospects and then trade prospects for Stanton, perhaps including one or two we picked up in the JBJ trade.

 

See above about moving pieces. Anything we could acquire for JBJ that we could then use to acquire stanton, someone else could simply use to acquire Stanton. I mean hey, if they can spare the prospect, why shouldn't they be the ones aiming high?

 

At least until Jarrod Dyson is off the market, i have doubts in JBJ's market being that strong anyhow, as Dyson's value isn't that far short of Bradley's based on last year's performance and he can be had for just dollars.

[OH FOY]

Stanton wont be as easy to Trade as Jeter thinks, he has full veto on any Trade, and his preference is West Coast. He was born in California. Edited November 4, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Stanton wont be as easy to Trade as Jeter thinks, he has full veto on any Trade, and his preference is West Coast.

 

Wouldn't that mean he'll be pretty easy to trade to the Dodgers?

[OH FOY]

Could happen, Crawford's contract finally done, and last year for A-Gonz. Team is really young, their Pay-roll should start dropping big time.

Problem is who to send back, they want to keep their Prospects from article I read.

San Francisco I think will be in it. Don't know if they have the Prospects though.

Edited November 4, 2017 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

Forgot article said Stanton has 5 teams he will not go to, (wouldn't say), according to Writers Source. Read it at work, so cannot copy it for here, sorry.

[jacksonianmarch]

Stanton to Boston is a pipe dream. I think the market for him will heat up and ultimately, a massive amount of prospects will come to Miami and they will get their salary relief. In the age of power, acquiring the top power hitter in baseball is a key method to put your team on the map.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it's a pipe dream. We've got the money. You don't think Benintendi plus Groome and something else would get it done?

 

It'd be an overpay on our part, that's the problem.

[jacksonianmarch]

Groome has little to no value. Beni would get it done, but why would you do that? I’m thinking the Marlins will get a major prospect haul rather than a veteran haul.

[Station 13]

I'm more interest in Ozuna than Stanton when it comes to Miami players. Stanton has too much tied to that contract. MLBTR predicted the Red Sox to sign Martinez for 150M, half what Stanton is owed. Edited November 4, 2017 by Station 13

[Bellhorn04]

Groome has little to no value. Beni would get it done, but why would you do that? I’m thinking the Marlins will get a major prospect haul rather than a veteran haul.

 

I'd probably trade Beni for Stanton. They play the same position. Stanton gives us that big power upgrade.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, but Beni is cheap for another 2 years and he has the look of a high average hitter with power. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a .300/.370/.550 line out of him in the future with some speed mixed in. On your team, Beni has the most value IMO. His production, projection and proximity to FA all outweigh the value of Betts IMO. If you asked me, gun to the head, which sox player would I bet on being the best value over the next 5 seasons, it’s Beni all the way

[notin]

Wouldn't that mean he'll be pretty easy to trade to the Dodgers?

 

That team will take anybody. ..

[notin]

Yeah, but Beni is cheap for another 2 years and he has the look of a high average hitter with power. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a .300/.370/.550 line out of him in the future with some speed mixed in. On your team, Beni has the most value IMO. His production, projection and proximity to FA all outweigh the value of Betts IMO. If you asked me, gun to the head, which sox player would I bet on being the best value over the next 5 seasons, it’s Beni all the way

 

I'd put him behind Betts, although that could depend on Moore's next deal.

 

Drew Pomeranz is another candidate whose value going forward could surprise...

[jacksonianmarch]

If I were dealing Dave, I’d offer Betts and Chavis for Stanton and Gordon

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd put him behind Betts, although that could depend on Moore's next deal.

 

Drew Pomeranz is another candidate whose value going forward could surprise...

 

Pomeranz is a FA after 2018. While his value for 2018 will likely be a steal, you’re looking at major money or an exodus after 2018

[Bellhorn04]

If I were dealing Dave, I’d offer Betts and Chavis for Stanton and Gordon

 

Interesting.

 

I don't think Dave will deal Betts. I don't think he will deal Beni either. It's all just fantasy talk.

[Station 13]

If I were dealing Dave, I’d offer Betts and Chavis for Stanton and Gordon

 

Trade our best player doesn't make sense. Trading our best prospect with him makes even less sense.

[notin]

Trade our best player doesn't make sense. Trading our best prospect with him makes even less sense.

 

Especially since we only need a stopgap 2b..

[harmony]

From an MLB Trade Rumors summary of an apparent Peter Gammons report:

The Red Sox have also been mentioned as a possible landing spot for Stanton, though Gammons finds it “unlikely” that the slugger would approve a deal to Boston — to this end, the Sox haven’t reached out to Joel Wolfe, Stanton’s agent. It has been rumored that Stanton, a California native, wouldn’t approve of a trade that would keep him on the east coast, though his only stated priority is avoiding another rebuilding situation. As Gammons notes, the Red Sox also can’t match the Cardinals when it comes to young pitching prospects that are close to MLB readiness.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/latest-on-giancarlo-stanton.html

[Bellhorn04]

That summary also predicts the Marlins will have to eat some of Stanton's contract.

[moonslav59]

Groome has little to no value. Beni would get it done, but why would you do that? I’m thinking the Marlins will get a major prospect haul rather than a veteran haul.

 

Groome has a lot of value, but it depends on the receiving team's timeline plan. If a team is looking to build for a win in 4-6 years, then Groome would be a good choice. I'm not sure what the Marlins' plans are, but they say they want to hold onto Ozuna and Yelich, so maybe they are looking at 2-3 years.

 

[moonslav59]

That summary also predicts the Marlins will have to eat some of Stanton's contract.

 

This is where the Sox could gain on other competitors. They can afford his $25M luxury tax cost while other teams look at his actual cost of about $30M x 9 years. We can offer less by taking the whole contract.

 

[harmony]

This is where the Sox could gain on other competitors. They can afford his $25M luxury tax cost while other teams look at his actual cost of about $30M x 9 years. We can offer less by taking the whole contract.

 

Most teams can afford Giancarlo Stanton's annual salary over the duration of the contract (although interest may be limited for other reasons).

 

The Red Sox are at a disadvantage because of the potential luxury tax implications of a $25 million AAV. Most clubs have fewer luxury tax concerns.

[moonslav59]

Most teams can afford Giancarlo Stanton's annual salary over the duration of the contract (although interest may be limited for other reasons).

 

The Red Sox are at a disadvantage because of the potential luxury tax implications of a $25 million AAV. Most clubs have fewer luxury tax concerns.

 

I disagree. While "most teams" can theoretically "afford" Stanton, they will not even kick the tires. His contract would be 20-40% of their payroll. They just won't do it.

 

$25M is not that much for the Sox luxury budget. He's worth more than that.

 

I'm thinking we may spend near $40M this winter as the luxury tax has been reset.

 

We could afford Stanton, Santana and Shaw, if we traded JBJ for a low cost SP'er.

[harmony]

I disagree. While "most teams" can theoretically "afford" Stanton, they will not even kick the tires. His contract would be 20-40% of their payroll. They just won't do it.

 

$25M is not that much for the Sox luxury budget. He's worth more than that.

 

I'm thinking we may spend near $40M this winter as the luxury tax has been reset.

 

We could afford Stanton, Santana and Shaw, if we traded JBJ for a low cost SP'er.

The luxury tax implication will extend far past the reset in 2018 because by the heart of the Stanton contract the Red Sox will need funds to extend, or replace, Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr., Andrew Benintendi, Dustin Pedroia, Chris Sale and Craig Kimbrel.

 

And then there's this Peter Gammons report:

The Red Sox have not reached out to Giancarlo Stanton’s agent Joel Wolfe, and they probably understand that not only is Stanton’s contract sizeable, he—and no one else—will decide where he goes because of that contract. Boston is an unlikely choice (although Stanton’s mother is from Ponce), and while the Cardinals have reportedly made one of their best young pitchers available if the Derek Jeter ownership will take back some of the money, there is no comparable pitching in the upper half o the Boston system right now even if in the unlikely event Stanton says he’d go there that they could agree on player compensation. Understand: in the last week three different general managers of profitable market teams have said that if Stanton were put on waivers, he would, like Manny Ramirez 12 years ago, go unclaimed. That’s complicated.

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-after-due-celebration-alex-cora-will-quickly-refocus-on-boston/

[moonslav59]

The luxury tax implication will extend far past the reset in 2018 because by the heart of the Stanton contract the Red Sox will need funds to extend, or replace, Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr., Andrew Benintendi, Dustin Pedroia, Chris Sale and Craig Kimbrel.

 

$25M is not much after the window closes. It's about the same as JD or Hosmer will count.

 

 

And then there's this Peter Gammons report:

 

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-after-due-celebration-alex-cora-will-quickly-refocus-on-boston/

 

I stopped reading this fool years ago.

[harmony]

$25M is not much after the window closes. It's about the same as JD or Hosmer will count.

Which is why the Red Sox may not land J.D. Martinez or Eric Hosmer.

[jacksonianmarch]

Groome has a lot of value, but it depends on the receiving team's timeline plan. If a team is looking to build for a win in 4-6 years, then Groome would be a good choice. I'm not sure what the Marlins' plans are, but they say they want to hold onto Ozuna and Yelich, so maybe they are looking at 2-3 years.

 

 

Let me re-state this. Groome has little if any value. Yes, he’s regarded because of his stuff. But there’s a reason for the ridiulculous anagram TINSTAAPP. Pitchers get hurt. Pitchers lose the zone. Pitchers have a ridiculously high flame out rate, especially those highly regarded but at the lower levels of the minors. Add in the character concerns and the injury concerns and Groome gets you next to nothing in a trade. If he stays healthy and blazes through the minors, then that’ll change. There’s a reason why Cashman has been pilfering young arms for big league 40 man roster castoffs. The hit rate is so low that the risk afforded is low enough to overpay. Cashman has had a ridiculous hit rate for now, but it’s bound to correct.

[OH FOY]

Gammons might be a fool but Stanton will have a say where he plays. Gammons not only one that wrote it. That's why players put that in their contract. The right to Veto any Trade.

Boston is not in rebuilding mode, so they have that going for them.

Edited November 4, 2017 by OH FOY!