2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Spudboy]

If Devers new instructors can't figure out that it is a footwork issue then they suck. He has the glove and the arm to be solid in that position. Since I don't subscribe to the cliff theory at all, I see 0 sense of urgency with respect to this kid playing third for us going forward. I wonder if the analytical geniouses have a way to measure the productivity of just his footwork?

 

Bengazi ... e mails!

 

UZR150... DRS!!!!!!1!!

 

Your post reflects a stark difference in those that observe the minutia while watching each game versus those that memorize spreadsheets.

 

You see WHAT is wrong. They see that the numbers indicate that SOMETHING is wrong.

[Larry Cook]

I think whoever offers JD a six year deal could be the winner! And I see desperate dave going there faster than slick Willie Clinton on an ugly woman!

 

As for first base: What would it take via trade to pry Adams out of Atlanta?

[moonslav59]

Bengazi ... e mails!

 

UZR150... DRS!!!!!!1!!

 

Your post reflects a stark difference in those that observe the minutia while watching each game versus those that memorize spreadsheets.

 

You see WHAT is wrong. They see that the numbers indicate that SOMETHING is wrong.

 

I, for one, saw Bogey was below average before I looked at the numbers, and BTW, I've watched just about every single play of ever game for two decades.

 

He's below average. I have no doubts whatsoever.

[Larry Cook]

I, for one, saw Bogey was below average before I looked at the numbers, and BTW, I've watched just about every single play of ever game for two decades.

 

He's below average. I have no doubts whatsoever.

 

I agree! And I would add, his poor defensive range causes our pitchers to go hard for the strike out as opposed to pitching for ground balls.

 

Unfortunately the pitchers arms are burnt by the end of August!

[moonslav59]

I agree! And I would add, his poor defensive range causes our pitchers to go hard for the strike out as opposed to pitching for ground balls.

 

Unfortunately the pitchers arms are burnt by the end of August!

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I do think adding Devers to the left side defense for the full season plus having Holt & Co. at 2B, our pitchers may try to get batters to pop up.

 

I think we went something like 22-8 in games Marrero played 8+ innings at 3B. I think we did well when Lin played there as well.

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by moonslav59

[notin]

Bengazi ... e mails!

 

UZR150... DRS!!!!!!1!!

 

Your post reflects a stark difference in those that observe the minutia while watching each game versus those that memorize spreadsheets.

 

You see WHAT is wrong. They see that the numbers indicate that SOMETHING is wrong.

 

Right. Because eye witness testimony is so reliable.

 

So please tell me how watching Bogaerts 162 times and no other shortstop for more than 3 consecutive games should lead one to conclude Bogaerts is average or above average or below average?

 

How many times did you see Cain and Buxton (whose name you didn't even know) before you decided they were clearly inferior to Bradley defensively?

[cp176]

Bengazi ... e mails!

 

UZR150... DRS!!!!!!1!!

 

Your post reflects a stark difference in those that observe the minutia while watching each game versus those that memorize spreadsheets.

 

You see WHAT is wrong. They see that the numbers indicate that SOMETHING is wrong.

 

Look what I got going thee by simply mentioning Dever's footwork. I done good - lol!

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldn't go that far, but I do think adding Devers to the left side defense for the full season plus having Holt & Co. at 2B, our pitchers may try to get batters to pop up.

 

I think we went something like 22-8 in games Marrero played 8+ innings at 3B. I think we did well when Lin played there as well.

 

 

This doesn’t make any sense. No pitcher goes for a pop up. As a pitcher, you don’t want the hitters to put the ball in play in the air. A pop up is a few tenths of an inch on the bat away from being a HR. Pitchers want early contact down for the ground ball or strikeouts later in the count. You don’t go after a hitter saying, “I’m going to elevate here and get a pop up”. If you’re elevating, it’s to put someone away

[moonslav59]

This doesn’t make any sense. No pitcher goes for a pop up. As a pitcher, you don’t want the hitters to put the ball in play in the air. A pop up is a few tenths of an inch on the bat away from being a HR. Pitchers want early contact down for the ground ball or strikeouts later in the count. You don’t go after a hitter saying, “I’m going to elevate here and get a pop up”. If you’re elevating, it’s to put someone away

 

I was joking.

 

That's how bad I think our IF can be next year with Devers at 3B, Bogey at SS, Holt at 2B and HRam at 1B.

[oldtimer]

Will someone in the know go over the key dates as far as expected actions both in FA and trade markets?

 

From what I understood, teams had 5 days to make qualifying offers to players following the world series, so that must have been completed. Teams have also exercised options for key players as the Sox have for Sale and Kimbrel, but I am not up to speed on the timing to do that.

 

The GM meetings are coming up NOv 13 thru 16 and the Winter meetings are Dec 10 thru 14.

 

With those in mind, when can teams go after and sign FA's and what is the typical range of time when that is done? Also, I presume the trade market becomes open now and the winter meetings might be fertile ground for that. What is the likely range of time for that and do they extend well into the season?

 

Appreciate comments as I have some thoughts but am uncertain of what to look for and when.

[moonslav59]

Nov. 2: As of 9 a.m. ET Thursday, all eligible players become free agents.

 

Nov. 7: Free agency begins. The five-day exclusive negotiating period will end next Tuesday, allowing free agents to talk and sign with any team. This is the day the off season really gets underway.

 

Nov. 13-16: GM Meetings in Orlando.

 

Nov. 16: Deadline (5 p.m.) for free agents to accept or decline the qualifying offer.

 

Nov. 20: Deadline to set 40-man rosters in preparation of Rule 5 Draft.

 

Dec. 1: Deadline (8 p.m.) to tender contracts to players on the 40-man roster who are either arbitration eligible or have zero to three years of service time.

 

Dec. 10-14: Winter meetings, this year held in Orlando, Fla.

 

Dec. 14: Rule 5 Draft, held at the winter meetings.

 

Jan. 12, 2018: Players and teams exchange salaries for players eligible for salary arbitration.

 

Feb. 1-20, 2018: Arbitration hearings.

[mvp 78]

I agree. The idea of moving the kid NOW without a significant upgrade slotting into third is just f***ing dumb.

 

Bogey looked like s*** until 2016 when he started to play decent D in the hole. He made big improvements and is now serviceable. There is nothing wrong with Dever's defense that can't be sorted out fairly soon.

 

And really, his issue is just throwing. That's probably something they can really focus on this offseason and work out.

[mvp 78]

If Bogey improved from 2016 to 2017 on defense it was by the slimmest of margins.

 

Moose is a very significant upgrade on defense over Devers.

 

Worst to average is huge.

 

Mous is below average. Negative WAR defense. It'll only get worse as he ages with that big body.

[mvp 78]

It’s more than footwork, though. He’s a thick lower half guy who is going to grow out of the position anyway. By the time his footwork improves, his body will have matured into a slower form anyway.

 

Listen, I think this kid has 30 HR power and the chance to hit for a high average. He’s the goods offensively and he’ll be at least above average offensively if he moved across the diamond. But if you think he’s going to be anything other than a minus defensively, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

He's 20. He has many years to go before he grows out of the position. We were all told that Xander would grow out of SS too, but that hasn't happened.

[mvp 78]

JD is going to the highest bidder. The sox need him or Stanton.

 

Yup, they need at least one of them.

[oldtimer]

Nov. 2: As of 9 a.m. ET Thursday, all eligible players become free agents.

 

Nov. 7: Free agency begins. The five-day exclusive negotiating period will end next Tuesday, allowing free agents to talk and sign with any team. This is the day the off season really gets underway.

 

Nov. 13-16: GM Meetings in Orlando.

 

Nov. 16: Deadline (5 p.m.) for free agents to accept or decline the qualifying offer.

 

Nov. 20: Deadline to set 40-man rosters in preparation of Rule 5 Draft.

 

Dec. 1: Deadline (8 p.m.) to tender contracts to players on the 40-man roster who are either arbitration eligible or have zero to three years of service time.

 

Dec. 10-14: Winter meetings, this year held in Orlando, Fla.

 

Dec. 14: Rule 5 Draft, held at the winter meetings.

 

Jan. 12, 2018: Players and teams exchange salaries for players eligible for salary arbitration.

 

Feb. 1-20, 2018: Arbitration hearings.

 

Thanks

 

I thought it would be you with the answers.

[OH FOY]

Speaking of arbitration, Holt makes 1.95 million, and will be in 2nd year arbitration. You think he gets a raise? You think if you move on from him, save the money, is good to sign Nunez? Next year Holts price goes up again, in last year of arbitration. Offset the 2 salaries, for a player, that seems to fit here, with more Power, and suited to the Park.

[mvp 78]

Speaking of arbitration, Holt makes 1.95 million, and will be in 2nd year arbitration. You think he gets a raise? You think if you move on from him, save the money, is good to sign Nunez? Next year Holts price goes up again, in last year of arbitration. Offset the 2 salaries, for a player, that seems to fit here, with more Power, and suited to the Park.

 

I move on from him and just stick with Lin/Hernandez/Marrero. They aren't much of a drop from Holt's production and may have higher ceilings.

[OH FOY]

The thing about Holt is throughout his career, he has good 1st half's. Drops in 2nd half. Something to think about, with Pedey hurt in 1st half of season.

[Spudboy]

I, for one, saw Bogey was below average before I looked at the numbers, and BTW, I've watched just about every single play of ever game for two decades.

 

He's below average. I have no doubts whatsoever.

 

We were talking about Dever's footwork, not Bogey. And no one here is claiming that Bogey is above average defensively. He is what I call "serviceable" which means around average.

 

But I get it. You need to have the last word.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Spudboy

[Spudboy]

Right. Because eye witness testimony is so reliable.

 

So please tell me how watching Bogaerts 162 times and no other shortstop for more than 3 consecutive games should lead one to conclude Bogaerts is average or above average or below average?

 

How many times did you see Cain and Buxton (whose name you didn't even know) before you decided they were clearly inferior to Bradley defensively?

 

Another guy who has to attack someone just so he can have the final say.

 

I saw the SS from opposing teams 162 games or just a bit more than I saw of bogarts. Do the math smart guy.

 

I knew of both Cain and Buxton but I had not seen enough of Buxton to form a strong opinion of him one way or another. I have never believed Cain is in the same category as Keirmier or Pillar.

 

I anxiously await your retort since I can't stand having the final say on any subject. Let's have it tough guy. Put me in my place because it must be done!

[Spudboy]

I was joking.

 

That's how bad I think our IF can be next year with Devers at 3B, Bogey at SS, Holt at 2B and HRam at 1B.

 

That infield is grim compared to one with a healthy Pedroia and Moreland but it could still be decent if Devers steps it up.

[mvp 78]

Another guy who has to attack someone just so he can have the final say.

 

Final say and personal attacks can suck a dick, imo.

 

I know a lot of people don't like my posting, but I don't try to go out and be s*****. ******** like you're sitting at the bar talking about the Sox, but don't be an *******.

[S5Dewey]

That infield is grim compared to one with a healthy Pedroia and Moreland but it could still be decent if Devers steps it up.

 

That's well put. Our infield will be decent, but only if Devers steps it up. Otherwise it'll be indecent. If I give Pedey the benefit of doubt and say that he'll come back as strong as he was before Machado probably ruined what's left of his career we he will be the only infielder we have who's better than average on both sides of the ball. That's why I don't understand some people slobbering all over themselves to weaken the strongest part of our defense - the outfield - by trading JBJ. I understand that JBJ's offensive streakiness may make him the weakest of the outfielders, but his up-the-middle GG caliber defense shows up for every game and when your infield is as weak as ours will probably be I want some part of the defense to be outstanding.

 

I am and probably always will be a believer in up-the-middle defense and right now the only two up-the-middle guys who are better than average are Vazquez and JBJ. If someone is going to be traded it should be the SS Bogaerts. What's that you say? Nobody is going to want Bogaerts? Well, that's an indication that we shouldn't want him either so the best way to upgrade the team is to try to trade Bogaerts et.al. for the power we need.

[Jack Flap]

MLBTR on the trade market for Stanton:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/assessing-the-trade-market-for-giancarlo-stanton.html

 

The Red Sox are listed as one of the "best fits" (with the Cardinals and Dodgers), with pros and cons broken down.

[mvp 78]

MLBTR on the trade market for Stanton:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/assessing-the-trade-market-for-giancarlo-stanton.html

 

The Red Sox are listed as one of the "best fits" (with the Cardinals and Dodgers), with pros and cons broken down.

 

I do like the idea of an Abreu trade. It would fix one of the moves that Ben whiffed on (i.e. never figuring out 1b).

[moonslav59]

Mous is below average. Negative WAR defense. It'll only get worse as he ages with that big body.

 

1 year. Yes, he may get worse. Yes, he may end up at 1B year 3 or 4.

[moonslav59]

We were talking about Dever's footwork, not Bogey. And no one here is claiming that Bogey is above average defensively. He is what I call "serviceable" which means around average.

 

But I get it. You need to have the last word.

 

Pot meet Kettle, Mr. second to last word.

Edited November 9, 2017 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

I do like the idea of an Abreu trade. It would fix one of the moves that Ben whiffed on (i.e. never figuring out 1b).

 

I'd rather sign Santana and lose the pool money.

[cp176]

And really, his issue is just throwing. That's probably something they can really focus on this offseason and work out.

 

He has a rifle for an arm. A big league third baseman's arm.