Otani to be posted

[moonslav59]

Just an honest question....

 

How many of these high profile, high posting fee japanese imports have we seen that were actually worth it?

 

-Dice-K was a clown for all the hype. Gyroball????? Give me a break

-Hideki Matsui had the hype of their version of Babe Ruth, but was nothing more than a .280 hitter with doubles power.

-Yu Darvish is hardly what was originally expected.

-Kaz Matsui was a shortstop that couldn't play shortstop

-Hideki Irabu was their version of Nolan Ryan. I don't need to comment further.

-Kei Igawa, nice sunglasses......awful

-Sang Lee (Redsox).....lol

-Robinson Checo (Redsox).....lol

 

The only players to have real success are Ichiro, Hideo Nomo, and in some respect....Chan Ho Park.

 

Koji, Saito and Hasegawa had some success, but it was short lived, and they were nothing more than relief pitchers/short term closers.

 

Why do we continue to hype the Japanese imports.......who are putting up big numbers....at a AA Pro baseball level?

 

Uehara has many good or great season. He's pitched in MLB for 9 years and never had a WHIP above 1.163 after his rookie year (which was 1.245).

7 straight seasons under 0.957 and 5 straight under 0.917. He might have the lowest all time 3 year WHIP stretch:

2011: 0.723

2012: 0.639

2013: 0.565 with Boston

 

Okajima did well for us for several years.

 

What about ...

 

Hiroki Kuroda (awesome career from ages 33-39- never had an ERA above 3.76)

 

Hisashi Iwakuma (Pretty good for a guy starting in MLB at age 31)

 

Yu Darvish (Watch what he makes with his next contract)

 

Tmo Ohka (pretty good 4 year stretch)

 

[Bellhorn04]

How the heck did both of you leave out Tanaka?

[Spudboy]

SCM33's overall point if expanded to include the International pool makes sense to me.

 

I don't see any logic is signing a high priced player from another country that has not played MLB ball. At best you get someone like that clown in rt field for the Dodgers. Or The idiot that we got from the A's for our best pitcher.

 

Then we get guys like Castillo who have not played ball for almost two years, have never played at a high level ( unless you consider a few international games "high" ), and has not had access to really good coaching and facilities in which to train.

 

Chasing these stiffs is a waste of time and produces very few true star quality MLB players.

[jacksonianmarch]

Spud, Japanese players are a bit different than Cuban. They have the best nutrition available as well as the best strengthening and workout regimens. These guys aren't stiffs. The Cuban guys are the ones having to deal with substandard situations AND delays in PT due to defection. Theyre a bit more suspect since the time off can really screw them up.

 

In terms of the best Japanese talent, we also need to remember that the shelf like had been short because a lot of these guys are hitting the majors in their late 20s. They adjust, make a name for themselves and then fall off the map. While the perception is that they fade quickly, they are actually fading around the time you would expect (around age 34 or so). Otani is a talent like no other. He can top out at 101 mph. By all accounts had two plus secondary pitches. As a hitter, he has plus power and patience. He has the skills to hit for a high average. He is a rare beast for sure

[mvp 78]

Spud, Japanese players are a bit different than Cuban. They have the best nutrition available as well as the best strengthening and workout regimens. These guys aren't stiffs. The Cuban guys are the ones having to deal with substandard situations AND delays in PT due to defection. Theyre a bit more suspect since the time off can really screw them up.

 

In terms of the best Japanese talent, we also need to remember that the shelf like had been short because a lot of these guys are hitting the majors in their late 20s. They adjust, make a name for themselves and then fall off the map. While the perception is that they fade quickly, they are actually fading around the time you would expect (around age 34 or so). Otani is a talent like no other. He can top out at 101 mph. By all accounts had two plus secondary pitches. As a hitter, he has plus power and patience. He has the skills to hit for a high average. He is a rare beast for sure

 

Let me tell you the tale of the gyro ball.

[Bellhorn04]

Dice-K was pretty good in 2007 and 2008, got injured in 2009.

[mvp 78]

Dice-K was pretty good in 2007 and 2008, got injured in 2009.

 

I agree. He was pretty good, but not really worth what the Sox spent.

[Spudboy]

Spud, Japanese players are a bit different than Cuban. They have the best nutrition available as well as the best strengthening and workout regimens. These guys aren't stiffs. The Cuban guys are the ones having to deal with substandard situations AND delays in PT due to defection. Theyre a bit more suspect since the time off can really screw them up.

 

In terms of the best Japanese talent, we also need to remember that the shelf like had been short because a lot of these guys are hitting the majors in their late 20s. They adjust, make a name for themselves and then fall off the map. While the perception is that they fade quickly, they are actually fading around the time you would expect (around age 34 or so). Otani is a talent like no other. He can top out at 101 mph. By all accounts had two plus secondary pitches. As a hitter, he has plus power and patience. He has the skills to hit for a high average. He is a rare beast for sure

 

Legit points Doc but I am still not a fan of over paying, especially when that player remains unproven against the best talent in the world which is MLB.

[Spudboy]

I agree. He was pretty good, but not really worth what the Sox spent.

 

And I am not against signing international talent at all. As long as the player can prove he is a fit before big money is thrown at him. Treat him like any other prospect and don't get a giant boner for every hyped foreign player that becomes available.

[jacksonianmarch]

Legit points Doc but I am still not a fan of over paying, especially when that player remains unproven against the best talent in the world which is MLB.

 

In this case, there is no overpaying. If Ohtani signs in NY, the Yankees will shell out $20 mil for posting (not against the lux tax), $3.45 mil to sign him and then they get him at league minimum for 3 seasons before he enters the arbitration process. The arb process isn't guaranteed as a team can non-tender a player. So a team like NYY shells out $25.1 mil to acquire and control him for 3 seasons and during those 3 seasons, the only thing to hit the lux tax is the $550K per year for league minimum. It is an absolute homerun. Whomever he signs with will be very happy no matter the outcome

[SCM33]

Dice-K was pretty good in 2007 and 2008, got injured in 2009.

 

I think what you meant was......Dice-L was pretty lucky, ESPECIALLY in 2008 before he got injured. His 2008 season was one of the biggest flukes in Sox team history. He was garbage. You take that 2008 season out, and he was pretty awful considering the posting fee + contract.

[moonslav59]

In this case, there is no overpaying. If Ohtani signs in NY, the Yankees will shell out $20 mil for posting (not against the lux tax), $3.45 mil to sign him and then they get him at league minimum for 3 seasons before he enters the arbitration process. The arb process isn't guaranteed as a team can non-tender a player. So a team like NYY shells out $25.1 mil to acquire and control him for 3 seasons and during those 3 seasons, the only thing to hit the lux tax is the $550K per year for league minimum. It is an absolute homerun. Whomever he signs with will be very happy no matter the outcome

 

Agreed. The risk is not that high.

 

The rewards could be very nice.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks out on ohtani

[moonslav59]

Yanks out on ohtani

 

I hope you are right.

[Jack Flap]

That brings a smile to my face.

[Jack Flap]

Pete Abraham

@PeteAbe

The Red Sox also are out on Ohtani. Dave Dombrowski said they were informed this afternoon.

6:22 PM · Dec 3, 2017

 

Oh well...didn't think we had a great shot anyway. I like how fast he seems to be moving (a first this winter), though.

[jacksonianmarch]

He wants a small market? What a weakling

[Station 13]

West coast sucks for baseball.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

He is definitely an interesting guy--marches to the beat of his own drum. Money doesn't seem to be the top priority--perhaps he is a religious guy and, unlike most Americans, isn't obsessed with material things.

 

I can understand the appeal of the West Coast--significant difference in flight times. I'll be rooting for him. He is a unique athlete and seems to have a brain as well. In professional baseball, that is pretty rare.

 

Pretty funny with the Yankees trying to acquire more and more money for international bonus in order to sign Otani. It looks like Cashman misjudged the situation.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[dgalehouse]

If he is reluctant to play in a big market , you are probably better off without him.

[Jack Flap]

I mean, his finalists include both LA teams and the Cubs, so "small market" in this case just seems to mean "not New York or Boston."

[Bellhorn04]

That brings a smile to my face.

 

Me too. I think I like this kid!

[mvp 78]

He wants a small market? What a weakling

 

LA and Chicago are two small markets!

[Bellhorn04]

LA and Chicago are two small markets!

 

Everything is small next to the Big Apple!

[Carpin]

He is definitely an interesting guy--marches to the beat of his own drum. Money doesn't seem to be the top priority--perhaps he is a religious guy and, unlike most Americans, isn't obsessed with material things.

 

I can understand the appeal of the West Coast--significant difference in flight times. I'll be rooting for him. He is a unique athlete and seems to have a brain as well. In professional baseball, that is pretty rare.

 

Pretty funny with the Yankees trying to acquire more and more money for international bonus in order to sign Otani. It looks like Cashman misjudged the situation.

 

yep

 

The only good thing, from the yankees perspective, is that they can go all in with the prospects released from the Braves

[jacksonianmarch]

The Mariners just acquired over $1 mil in INTL funds from the Twins yesterday fueling speculation that Ohtani might be headed there

[notin]

I had him pegged for Seattle a while ago.

 

But I really want to see him go to San Diego. That city deserves something, especially since they have so little left on the pro sports front...

[notin]

yep

 

The only good thing, from the yankees perspective, is that they can go all in with the prospects released from the Braves

 

Better get going on that. Several have already signed elsewhere, including the biggest name of the bunch.

 

TEchnically every team can go all in on these guys, because MLB has allowed teams to use funds from their 2018 Internatioanl Signing money to sign them...

[Kimmi]

Better get going on that. Several have already signed elsewhere, including the biggest name of the bunch.

 

TEchnically every team can go all in on these guys, because MLB has allowed teams to use funds from their 2018 Internatioanl Signing money to sign them...

 

And what is Dombrowski doing? Why hasn't he signed any of them? Does he know that we need to build our farm?

[SCM33]

And what is Dombrowski doing? Why hasn't he signed any of them? Does he know that we need to build our farm?

 

He doesn't care. He never has.

 

This should not be a surprise. The FO knew this was part of his deal. This is what DD does.