Farrell

[georom4]

So you are asking me what they should have done. i like this because it deals with a real baseball question so understand before you blast back at me that i'm just telling you from my own experience what I would have liked to have seen done. First of all you can't just assume that the infield fly rule is going to be invoked on any given play. maybe it should have in this instance but it wasn't. moreland has to be a little off the second base bag, as he was, because you know he isn't tagging up on that ball. Pedroia should have been at least a third of the way up the line. Maybe he gets thrown out going back to the bag if Hardy catches the ball and maybe he doesn't. i'm thinking that maybe JBJ should have just run down the first base line. In any event, when that ball hits the deck, moreland should have been on his way to third - Pedroia on his way to second- Bradley standing on the first base bag. Baltimore gets one out but not two. I don't agree with you that it is way down the list in terms of baserunning mistakes and if people want to blame the coaching staff for this then i guess if we have a group of players who need to be told to run when the ball hits the deck we might be in some trouble.

 

You're making too much sense! LOL I can't believe all the bootlickers out here saying Pedroia had no chance either way. Isn't he supposed to be the most heads-up player in the league? Get off the bag and run when the ball hits the ground. I never liked Farrell - to me he's just Francona 2.0 - Soft on his players and often wrong with his relief choices. You come back from a 3-1 deficit in the 9th and tie it up, put your damn closer in and keep the pressure on. But the crappy hitting is on the GM, He swapped Papi for Moreland when Encarnacion was out there for an affordable contract. WE just gotta hope Price returns and is lights out to counter our anemic defense, coaching, baserunning, and power.

[cp176]

You're making too much sense! LOL I can't believe all the bootlickers out here saying Pedroia had no chance either way. Isn't he supposed to be the most heads-up player in the league? Get off the bag and run when the ball hits the ground. I never liked Farrell - to me he's just Francona 2.0 - Soft on his players and often wrong with his relief choices. You come back from a 3-1 deficit in the 9th and tie it up, put your damn closer in and keep the pressure on. But the crappy hitting is on the GM, He swapped Papi for Moreland when Encarnacion was out there for an affordable contract. WE just gotta hope Price returns and is lights out to counter our anemic defense, coaching, baserunning, and power.

 

It's almost like things have to be scripted for Farrell when it comes to game decisions. I might be a little softer on him for playing it so closely to what the current trends are if as a team they looked like they really new what was going on. Sometimes you just do what it takes to win the game.

[notin]

You're making too much sense! LOL I can't believe all the bootlickers out here saying Pedroia had no chance either way. Isn't he supposed to be the most heads-up player in the league? Get off the bag and run when the ball hits the ground. I never liked Farrell - to me he's just Francona 2.0 - Soft on his players and often wrong with his relief choices. You come back from a 3-1 deficit in the 9th and tie it up, put your damn closer in and keep the pressure on. But the crappy hitting is on the GM, He swapped Papi for Moreland when Encarnacion was out there for an affordable contract. WE just gotta hope Price returns and is lights out to counter our anemic defense, coaching, baserunning, and power.

 

Have to agree with one point here - crappy hitting is patially on the GM. His whole off-season philosophy was contradictory. " We're going all in to win a title this year!!! But without spending money!"

[georom4]

Have to agree with one point here - crappy hitting is patially on the GM. His whole off-season philosophy was contradictory. " We're going all in to win a title this year!!! But without spending money!"

 

I still think we will be in the thick of the playoff race just because of the pitching...I loved the Sale move but I still don't get the no interest in Encarnacion. That guy has given us fits in our ballpark. He wouldve been a sweet pickup for 3 years

[SinceYaz]

Maybe it's time he had a thread of his own. I started one last year primarily to defend his in-game decisions but also to encourage discussion. I did say--several times--that the only sensible criteria for managers are their won-lost record and whether the team was performing to its potential.

 

2012-2016, the Arizona Diamondbacks, did not have single winning season even though twice they broke even at 81-81. This year they are playing winning ball with a new guy named Lovullo at the helm. For now, anyway, it's probably fair to say that Lovullo is doing a good job.

 

I'm not so sure Farrell is. It's still early in the season, of course, and the Sox are two games above .500 and 3 games out of 1st place in the AL East. If the season ends right now, the Sox would not be in the playoffs, however. That to me is under performance even though it's still early in the season.

 

Last year the pitching was barely adequate. But right now the pitching is 3d best (ERA) in MLB, which is better than it's been in years. Sale is a real ace, and Porcello, Pomeranz, and ERod are doing fine if not great. Price's return--hopefully before this decade is over--will help even more. The bullpen, especially Kimbrel, is good. So to me DD has done his job and given Farrell a pretty good pitching staff.

 

Not so the hitting--which is a big surprise to me. I definitely did not think the absence of Ortiz would have this effect. The Sox right now are 26th in MLB in runs scored and tied with the giants for dead last in dingers. Last year the Sox were 1st in runs scored and 9th in home runs. Oh, and right now we have the second highest GIDP rate in MLB--only Houston is worse. I'm not sure any of the weak hitting is Farrell's fault, however.

 

The Sox are top of the heap in errors with 26, and that doesn't include bonehead plays--like a pitcher not covering 1B on a grounder to the right--when no error is charged. Our outfield has pretty good range, I think, but not the infield. Our DER (whatever that means) is .687, ranked 20th in MLB.

 

And our baserunning is atrocious. 60 or so years ago when the Dodgers were in Brooklyn, they had an outfielder named Babe Herman, renowned for his zaniness. One time he hit a gapper with men on first and second, and all three of them ended up on third base together. The story goes that a month or so later a Dodger fan is leaving Ebbets field in the 7th inning and catching a cab to an appointment. The cabbie asks how the "Bums" are doing, to which the fan replies, "great. When I left they had three guys on." To which the cabbie asked, "oh, yeah, which base?" Right now our guys are capable of plays like that.

 

I blame those last two on Farrell because I think it's his job to ensure our guys are good at the fundamentals of fielding the ball, throwing the ball, and running the bases.

 

For those who believe the Sox have been temporarily screwed by a brutal early schedule, let me remind you that right now only 5 teams in the AL have losing records, and 3 of them are out West. We have played two NL teams, the Cubs with a winning record and the Pirates with a losing record. Oh, and the Sox so far have played 18 home games and just 10 on the road. If anything, we have had a soft schedule.

 

A fair presentation, Max.

 

I am completely bewildered at the base running oopses. At first I thought, "Oh well, they are just being aggressive." But very quickly they were running themselves out of scoring opportunities and we all know how dear those moments are - again surprisingly so.

 

Lovullo may be the missing element. We saw the how he helped the young players when Farrell was out for treatment a couple seasons ago. Alas, too late to use his emphasis.

 

I am wondering if there was a certain amount of taking the season for granted in the clubhouse after we traded for Sale. There was about two months for the feeling that the Sox were the next "inevitable" winner. We saw very quickly that the pitching staff wasn't as in shape as usual ... Thornburg went down, Price went down, now Wright is out (I know that isn't necessarily related ... but he was a good part of the planned rotation) ...

 

The focus on Panda seemed to have good results to begin with, but he seems to have fallen off and maybe for good.

 

But there didn't seem to be the same hunger as some years. Were we over-satisfied?

 

I am hoping we get that edge back. I love this team and its potential but we are struggling in fundamentals. It reminds me of the bungling defenses in the '60s. We have good players but the crispness and single-mindedness (focus?) needs to return.

[SoxHop]

lol

 

Sloppy ass late night tired writing by me............

 

Still. Blaming all this bad running to me is just not right I beleive. And no, I'm not a Farrell fan, I wanted him gone since he pitched to Cruz two years ago with no one on first and the game tied in the ninth I think. No manager would do that...... that was my breaking point with him....

[Kimmi]

By the time these guys are playing for the Red Sox, they have already had about a decade of coaching on how to run the bases. And some of that coaching at high level.

 

If Farrell is teaching them the basics of how to run and field at this level, then the last decade of coaching has been a total failure. At this level Farrell and team would be fine tuning a players game. Making them top of the notch players, not little league crap.

 

This is on the players. This is rookie league crap we are seeing. Maybe some of these players are over their head and panicking.

 

Spot on post.

 

Farrell does share part of the blame/responsibility for how our team is playing, but the majority of this poor play falls on the players' shoulders.

[Kimmi]

Players should have at least good fundamentals by the time they are in the big show. When they hit Farrell, players should at least know and be able to execute the fundamentals of both fielding and running without even thinking about it. At the top level they shouldn't be going over basics, and we aren't even seeing basic stuff done well. Farrell shouldn't have his staff talking about when to tag up, or when to hold the ball, or how to take a lead. He should be talking about how to maximize that stuff.

 

We aren't even seeing the basics done well from these players. I can't blame Farrell for that.

 

If you want to talk about why these players are not remembering the basics when under pressure, I would consider that.

 

But blaming Farrell for people thinking a pop fly is going to be called an infield fly rule, or Hanley not seeing Benny at second, or some third baseman throwing away a ball instead of holding on to it, just doesn't make sense to me.

 

I'm with you all the way bro.

[Fisk]

Spot on post.

 

Farrell does share part of the blame/responsibility for how our team is playing, but the majority of this poor play falls on the players' shoulders.

 

Farrell needs to hold them accountable, that's where his fault lies.

[Kimmi]

Farrell needs to hold them accountable, that's where his fault lies.

 

I can agree with that.

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody knows what goes on the clubhouse, but with Francona you always had the sense he had the players' backs. Farrell is a complete mystery in that regard. That's one of the reasons I really have no idea if he's a good manager or not. He's won a World Series and 2 division titles, but he's also finished last 4 times.

[Kimmi]

For all you stat loving people out there, the Sox rank dead last in the majors in BsR or baserunning runs. The team's BsR is -9.4. In contrast, the DBacks are the best with +11.6.

 

That said, the statement that Farrell's teams have always been bad base running teams is false.

[SinceYaz]

Spot on post.

 

Farrell does share part of the blame/responsibility for how our team is playing, but the majority of this poor play falls on the players' shoulders.

 

Are you actually saying players play and managers manage? Shocking ....

[a700hitter]

For all you stat loving people out there, the Sox rank dead last in the majors in BsR or baserunning runs. The team's BsR is -9.4. In contrast, the DBacks are the best with +11.6.

 

That said, the statement that Farrell's teams have always been bad base running teams is false.

It is not uncommon that his teams run the bases like they don't understand baseball rules. Ask Omar Vizquel.

[SinceYaz]

For all you stat loving people out there, the Sox rank dead last in the majors in BsR or baserunning runs. The team's BsR is -9.4. In contrast, the DBacks are the best with +11.6.

 

That said, the statement that Farrell's teams have always been bad base running teams is false.

 

Good stat presentation - not that it's good we are last. But it does point out Lovullo's aggressiveness. He's making his mark right now and doing it well. I don't hesitate to point out Farrell did quite well in his first year in the big chair. He was considerably more aggressive than Tito had been. (I am and always will be a Tito fan.)

 

By now Farrell is quite safe, in his own mind, IMO. He got the extension. He has an ALE crown from last season. He beat cancer. He had the three horsemen for starters until Price came up lame. He isn't panicking, worried or on the hot seat.

 

I didn't say that the running errors were Farrell's fault. Pedey has run into enough outs over the years with his aggressive play that I expect him to have some each year. I'm not sure if Hanley ought to be trying to steal but if he still likes the idea of having speed ... much better than just dogging it. It's when they are all added up that they seem to be a little unlucky, at best. Season is still young-ish, so I think these mistakes will level out.

[notin]

Players should have at least good fundamentals by the time they are in the big show. When they hit Farrell, players should at least know and be able to execute the fundamentals of both fielding and running without even thinking about it. At the top level they shouldn't be going over basics, and we aren't even seeing basic stuff done well. Farrell shouldn't have his staff talking about when to tag up, or when to hold the ball, or how to take a lead. He should be talking about how to maximize that stuff.

 

We aren't even seeing the basics done well from these players. I can't blame Farrell for that.

 

If you want to talk about why these players are not remembering the basics when under pressure, I would consider that.

 

But blaming Farrell for people thinking a pop fly is going to be called an infield fly rule, or Hanley not seeing Benny at second, or some third baseman throwing away a ball instead of holding on to it, just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Many years ago, I remember reading an article by Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated that he spent spring training in the Blue Jays camp and was amazed at how much time veteran players spent practicing fundamentals. ..

[SoxHop]

Many years ago, I remember reading an article by Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated that he spent spring training in the Blue Jays camp and was amazed at how much time veteran players spent practicing fundamentals. ..

 

You know. I was probably wrong. I imagine they drill ....drill ....drill...... Along with going over high level tactics.

 

Some of my old friends are college coaches, and when I talk to them about what and how they coach, they are talking about things I never would have even considered. I remember one discussion about leading off, and positioning. They covered depth perception and how to either make your lead look longer or shorter by how much closer or further away a runner would be to the plate, and why at certain times you would want to change this. Really indepth stuff. But I'm sure they still drill taking off for a steal quite a bit too and other basic stuff.

[Spudboy]

You know. I was probably wrong. I imagine they drill ....drill ....drill...... Along with going over high level tactics.

 

Some of my old friends are college coaches, and when I talk to them about what and how they coach, they are talking about things I never would have even considered. I remember one discussion about leading off, and positioning. They covered depth perception and how to either make your lead look longer or shorter by how much closer or further away a runner would be to the plate, and why at certain times you would want to change this. Really indepth stuff. But I'm sure they still drill taking off for a steal quite a bit too and other basic stuff.

 

I'm sure all Sox players have fielded gazillions of grounders and made as many throws. Same with fly balls, etc.

 

The problem is that very few of them are executing their skills very well at the moment.

 

I think that one problem is that some guys are not fielding the positions that they came up playing. They just are not that good ( yet? ) at their recent assignments.

[Kimmi]

Good stat presentation - not that it's good we are last. But it does point out Lovullo's aggressiveness. He's making his mark right now and doing it well. I don't hesitate to point out Farrell did quite well in his first year in the big chair. He was considerably more aggressive than Tito had been. (I am and always will be a Tito fan.)

 

By now Farrell is quite safe, in his own mind, IMO. He got the extension. He has an ALE crown from last season. He beat cancer. He had the three horsemen for starters until Price came up lame. He isn't panicking, worried or on the hot seat.

 

I didn't say that the running errors were Farrell's fault. Pedey has run into enough outs over the years with his aggressive play that I expect him to have some each year. I'm not sure if Hanley ought to be trying to steal but if he still likes the idea of having speed ... much better than just dogging it. It's when they are all added up that they seem to be a little unlucky, at best. Season is still young-ish, so I think these mistakes will level out.

 

I do recall Farrell being much more aggressive with his base running philosophy a few years back. I also remember that there was some criticism of that aggressiveness. There were times when the team lived by that aggressiveness, but also times when the team died by it.

 

The bottom line is that those decisions are dictated by the game situation, including the who the opposing defense is. In other words, a team can't be running just for the sake of being aggressive.

 

I have not watched much of the DBacks this year, but Lovullo seems to be doing a good job.

[Kimmi]

You know. I was probably wrong. I imagine they drill ....drill ....drill...... Along with going over high level tactics.

 

Some of my old friends are college coaches, and when I talk to them about what and how they coach, they are talking about things I never would have even considered. I remember one discussion about leading off, and positioning. They covered depth perception and how to either make your lead look longer or shorter by how much closer or further away a runner would be to the plate, and why at certain times you would want to change this. Really indepth stuff. But I'm sure they still drill taking off for a steal quite a bit too and other basic stuff.

 

Umm, I just said that your post was spot on, which means you can't be wrong...

 

Sure, players spend time drilling and practicing the fundamentals. The point still stands that by the time they are major league players, they should be fundamentally sound. Being fundamentally sound at a skill does not mean that you no longer practice that skill.

 

If anyone is to be blamed for the players' lack of fundamentals, it would be the minor league coaching staffs, not Farrell.

[Northern Star]

I don't see how minor league coaches are at fault for pitchers not covering 1B. I mean, that's just preposterous. Yet you see it happen across the leagues here and there from time to time.

[a700hitter]

Teams should save money and fire their entire coaching staffs and managers. They can't help them to improve their team's fielding or base running awareness as that is taught in the minors and doesn't need reinforcement, and we all know that lineup order is irrelevant and there is no hot or cold hand and that the game is largely random. Coaching staffs are a complete wast of money.

[Kimmi]

I don't see how minor league coaches are at fault for pitchers not covering 1B. I mean, that's just preposterous. Yet you see it happen across the leagues here and there from time to time.

 

I wouldn't blame the minor league coaches for that either. That is just a brain cramp on the pitcher's part.

[Kimmi]

Teams should save money and fire their entire coaching staffs and managers. They can't help them to improve their team's fielding or base running awareness as that is taught in the minors and doesn't need reinforcement, and we all know that lineup order is irrelevant and there is no hot or cold hand and that the game is largely random. Coaching staffs are a complete wast of money.

 

Well now you're just being silly again.

 

Although the game i

[SoxHop]

Umm, I just said that your post was spot on, which means you can't be wrong...

 

Sure, players spend time drilling and practicing the fundamentals. The point still stands that by the time they are major league players, they should be fundamentally sound. Being fundamentally sound at a skill does not mean that you no longer practice that skill.

 

If anyone is to be blamed for the players' lack of fundamentals, it would be the minor league coaching staffs, not Farrell.

 

ahahahh... You are right of course Kimmi.

 

But seriously, this is like Three Stooges kind of ball. This is so bad there isn't a manager in the world that could cause this kind of thing going on. It's just massive random suckitude by the players.

 

This wont last, it's too far crazy to even contemplate that this level of bad play by these guys could last a whole season, and that it is caused by the coach.

[SoxHop]

I'm sure all Sox players have fielded gazillions of grounders and made as many throws. Same with fly balls, etc.

 

The problem is that very few of them are executing their skills very well at the moment.

 

I think that one problem is that some guys are not fielding the positions that they came up playing. They just are not that good ( yet? ) at their recent assignments.

 

At third base for sure.

 

The rest I think is just a brain fart.

 

Many of these players are young. And were predicted to win the ALE. Maybe they are feeling the pressure to succeed, and not just play.

[cp176]

Umm, I just said that your post was spot on, which means you can't be wrong...

 

Sure, players spend time drilling and practicing the fundamentals. The point still stands that by the time they are major league players, they should be fundamentally sound. Being fundamentally sound at a skill does not mean that you no longer practice that skill.

 

If anyone is to be blamed for the players' lack of fundamentals, it would be the minor league coaching staffs, not Farrell.

 

They all know the basic fundamentals of the game. They have been taught and they have learned them. it is a known fact in any sport at any level, if they aren't continually emphasized they will not tend to be executed properly. If this team continues to make the same mental mistakes that they have been making over and over and over it falls onto the shoulders of JF and his coaching staff. Physical mistakes (errors) and batting slumps will happen but continually running into outs, not knowing how many outs there are, throwing the ball to the wrong bases - not acceptable.

[SoxHop]

They all know the basic fundamentals of the game. They have been taught and they have learned them. it is a known fact in any sport at any level, if they aren't continually emphasized they will not tend to be executed properly. If this team continues to make the same mental mistakes that they have been making over and over and over it falls onto the shoulders of JF and his coaching staff. Physical mistakes (errors) and batting slumps will happen but continually running into outs, not knowing how many outs there are, throwing the ball to the wrong bases - not acceptable.

 

How does a coach make that happen? Or what kind of coaching flaw makes that happen, especially at the degree we have been seeing?

[notin]

You know. I was probably wrong. I imagine they drill ....drill ....drill...... Along with going over high level tactics.

 

Some of my old friends are college coaches, and when I talk to them about what and how they coach, they are talking about things I never would have even considered. I remember one discussion about leading off, and positioning. They covered depth perception and how to either make your lead look longer or shorter by how much closer or further away a runner would be to the plate, and why at certain times you would want to change this. Really indepth stuff. But I'm sure they still drill taking off for a steal quite a bit too and other basic stuff.

 

One of the thongs Verducci highlighted in that article was how the veteran outfielders still worked on charging grounders to work on fielding them with the proper foot forward to come up throwing...

[Kimmi]

Well now you're just being silly again.

 

Although the game i

 

Goodness, I have no idea where that partial second sentence came from or what I was even thinking. LOL