Mookie and the MVP

[a700hitter]

That's the point of letting the stat geeks vote. They will not vote on popularity or on reputation.

You are stuck with sportswriters.

[Dojji]

That's OK. In 20 years most of the sportswriters will be stat geeks

 

How do I know this? Because sportswriters can only write about what they know. So those who refuse to know the knowable are at a diadvantage. And stat geeks will therefore have more to write about because they're the ones NOT rejecting whole fields of knowledge just because they didn't exist in their father's day so they'll have more material to write about.

 

Once a few more gray-headed editors pass the reins on, an inevitable switch towards stats based writing will follow -- not that every sports article will be replaced with a spreadsheet, because stats guys can talk about the human element stuff too, especially once they get experience with the baseball beat that they've mostly been kept on the outside of until now And can probably do that without looking quite silly as yesterday's sportswriters (or even the-day-before-yesterday's sportswriters like Shaughnessey) are looking these days.

 

Right now these old fogies are living on stories of long ago, but they can only do that because of how relatively recently truly stat based analysis has breached the mainstream, in 20 years, the stat geeks will be able to reminisce as well, and the age of the sports dinosaur will well and truly end.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Dojji

[a700hitter]

That's OK. In 20 years most of the sportswriters will be stat geeks

 

How do I know this? Because sportswriters can only write about what they know. So those who refuse to know the knowable are at a diadvantage. And stat geeks will therefore have more to write about because they're the ones NOT rejecting whole fields of knowledge just because they didn't exist in their father's day so they'll have more material to write about.

 

Once a few more gray-headed editors pass the reins on, an inevitable switch towards stats based writing will follow -- not that every sports article will be replaced with a spreadsheet, because stats guys can talk about the human element stuff too, especially once they get experience with the baseball beat that they've mostly been kept on the outside of until now And can probably do that without looking quite silly as yesterday's sportswriters (or even the-day-before-yesterday's sportswriters like Shaughnessey) are looking these days.

 

Right now these old fogies are living on stories of long ago, but they can only do that because of how relatively recently truly stat based analysis has breached the mainstream, in 20 years, the stat geeks will be able to reminisce as well, and the age of the sports dinosaur will well and truly end.

Maybe so. We can hope, but writers are usually not good with numbers and they are always looking for a story angle.

[Dojji]

That's why a new generation of writers is needed. The ones that realize that stats can allow you to build a story.

[Bellhorn04]

Can't really bitch too much about the award winners so far.

[a700hitter]

That's why a new generation of writers is needed. The ones that realize that stats can allow you to build a story.

Sure. Stats are good reading... real headline material.

[sk7326]

Maybe so. We can hope, but writers are usually not good with numbers and they are always looking for a story angle.

 

It's about staying current with the industry. One expects that out of someone covering, say financial markets. Seems like the least the writers can do - get current to reflect how front offices are actually making decisions.

[Kimmi]

You are stuck with sportswriters.

 

There are many fine writers at sites like Fangraphs and Baseball Prospectus. Their writing is much more interesting to me than most of the sports writers.

[Kimmi]

Can't really bitch too much about the award winners so far.

 

No, you can't.

 

The voters are getting better. They took a huge step forward when they gave King Felix the Cy Young a few years back with his 13-12 record.

[Dojji]

Sure. Stats are good reading... real headline material.

 

They can be.

[a700hitter]

That's why a new generation of writers is needed. The ones that realize that stats can allow you to build a story.

All the writers that voted for Joe Gordon over Ted Williams are dead. There was an outcry then about the disparity in statistics, and generations of sportswriters have come and gone and it is still a popularity contest. The intangible that is at play is not what most people think it is. The X factor is not about being a leader or a winner. It is about giving the writers access and be accommodating. If a guy is good copy and accessible, he will have the advantage. It is human nature, and it is a popularity contest by the people whose job it is to cover the players. That will never change.

[Jack Flap]

I agree with Dojji, YOTN, and Southpaw on this one. There's nothing wrong with recognizing excellence and hard work. A little pat on the back now and then can go a long way in terms of future performance.

 

I agree...although every year the aftermath of awards season seems to make me wish there were no awards.

[moonslav59]

No, you can't.

 

The voters are getting better. They took a huge step forward when they gave King Felix the Cy Young a few years back with his 13-12 record.

 

I'll never put much value into the MVP award as long as some voters never vote for a pitcher.

 

Look at this year: Zach Britton finished as the highest AL pitcher on the MVP balloting (11th with 11 points). Verlander and kluber are the only other pitchers to get votes (2 and one points)! None of them even won the Cy Young.

 

Something is messed up. I'm not saying any pitcher deserved the MVP this year, but there were plenty that we better than Miggy (56 points) or Kyle Seager 10, Brian Dozier (9)....

 

Scherzer finished 10th in the NL with 39 points- and he was behind Justin Turner!

 

Brandon Crawford is more valuable to the Giants than Bumgarner? Would anybody trade Bum for Bran? Hell NO!

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by moonslav59

[Kimmi]

I agree...although every year the aftermath of awards season seems to make me wish there were no awards.

 

Ha ha. I hear ya. I can certainly understand why.

[Kimmi]

I'll never put much value into the MVP award as long as some voters never vote for a pitcher.

 

Look at this year: Zach Britton finished as the highest AL pitcher on the MVP balloting (11th with 11 points). Verlander and kluber are the only other pitchers to get votes (2 and one points)! None of them even won the Cy Young.

 

Something is messed up. I'm not saying any pitcher deserved the MVP this year, but there were plenty that we better than Miggy (56 points) or Kyle Seager 10, Brian Dozier (9)....

 

Scherzer finished 10th in the NL with 39 points- and he was behind Justin Turner!

 

Brandon Crawford is more valuable to the Giants than Bumgarner? Would anybody trade Bum for Bran? Hell NO!

 

 

Yeah, I don't get the whole not voting for a pitcher thing. IMO, a pitcher can absolutely be the most valuable player on a team. Not voting for them because they have 'their own' award is kind of silly.

 

Again, I think a problem with the MVP award is the subjective nature of what 'most valuable' means.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, I don't get the whole not voting for a pitcher thing. IMO, a pitcher can absolutely be the most valuable player on a team. Not voting for them because they have 'their own' award is kind of silly.

 

Again, I think a problem with the MVP award is the subjective nature of what 'most valuable' means.

 

It's a huge problem.

[moonslav59]

It's a huge problem.

 

It seems simple to me:

 

Gold Glove for Defense

Silver Slugger for hitting

Cy Young for pitching

 

MVP for the most valuable player.

 

Pitchers are players.

DHs are players.

 

I don't get why people view the Cy Young as excluding pitchers from consideration.

 

Does a GG award exclude a hitter from MVP?

 

Does a Silver Slugger Award to a pitcher exclude him from Cy Young consideration?

 

[Bellhorn04]

It seems simple to me:

 

Gold Glove for Defense

Silver Slugger for hitting

Cy Young for pitching

 

MVP for the most valuable player.

 

Pitchers are players.

DHs are players.

 

I don't get why people view the Cy Young as excluding pitchers from consideration.

 

Does a GG award exclude a hitter from MVP?

 

Does a Silver Slugger Award to a pitcher exclude him from Cy Young consideration?

 

 

I was just agreeing with Kimmi that the problem with MVP is the uncertain, subjective meaning of the 'Valuable' part.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you eliminate losing teams, then you're basically eliminating otherworldly performances from contention based on the 24 other players on that team. Without Mike Trout, that team might have won 50 games.