9/19 @ Bal

[Bellhorn04]

Max, I too hate the O's more than the Yanks.

 

As in, you hate the O's more when they're better than the Yanks?

[Maxbialystock]

I'm going to say something here because people read gamethreads and almost never read general baseball discussions.

 

If asked what it takes to build a winning MLB team, most people would say pitching then hitting, but, if at all possible, have both.

 

Right now easily the three best records in the AL belong to the Sox, Guardians, and Rangers, who just happen to be ranked 1st, 2d, and 3d in the AL in runs scored. Conversely, the three best AL pitching staffs, defined as having given up the fewest runs, are the Guardians, Jays, and Astros.

 

Moreover, the pitching staffs--again, defined in terms of runs given up--are kind of tightly bunched. The Guardians are best at 626, but the Mariners, way back in 8th place, have given up 656 runs, just 30 more runs than the Guardians. The Sox lead the AL in runs scored with 830, and the 8th best team, again the Astros, has scored 678, which is a difference of 152 runs.

 

Also, the top six scoring teams are the Sox, Guardians, Rangers, Mariners, Jays, and Orioles--5 of which are likely to be in the playoffs. This is not true of the top 6 pitching staffs.

 

I am not anti-pitching. Far from it. I think our bullpen has been crucial to our success thus far in September. And I like moonslav and others get frustrated when our lineup gets shut down or limited to 1 or 2 runs. Nevertheless, it's also good to have a lineup that leads MLB in runs scored.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[Jasonbay44]

Living in Maryland, I definitely hate the Orioles more than any other MLB team. They are a joke, the stadium is literally more Sox fans than Orioles fans, and the stadium was mostly empty for a team playing meaningful games in September. Its pathetic.

[Maxbialystock]

As in, you hate the O's more when they're better than the Yanks?

 

Almost, but it's a little more complicated. I don't mind the Yankees playing winning ball because that makes them great rivals and all the more satisfying when we take a series from them. But the Orioles have no such tradition, plus I got used to them being also-rans. Now, however, for something like 2, 3, or more seasons than have played as though they are just as good as the Sox if not better. That ain't right, especially when I live in their TV coverage area (I'm in N. Virginia).

[d-money]

Big dick rick porcello does it again. This guy deserves the cy young. He's pitching in big games.

[Spudboy]

Will you be giving your daughter the same advice?

 

Probably.

[Spudboy]

Machado is a punk

 

Glad to hear you say that. Every time I mention that to anyone I get a five minute lecture about how talented he is.

 

Not only is he a punk-ass, he is ugly as f*** as well. Look at those cauliflower ears. The blank expression. He looks like a second from One Flew Over The Coo Coo's Nest.

 

Then across the diamond you have an equally unappetizing Chris Davis. Check out his mug. Of course the big wad of chew in his lower lip only enhances his neanderthal appearance.

 

f*** they are ugly.

[d-money]

Rodriguez better come out tomorrow and pitch a decent game. He has been f***ing awful.

[d-money]

Glad to hear you say that. Every time I mention that to anyone I get a five minute lecture about how talented he is.

 

Not only is he a punk-ass, he is ugly as f*** as well. Look at those cauliflower ears. The blank expression. He looks like a second from One Flew Over The Coo Coo's Nest.

 

Then across the diamond you have an equally unappetizing Chris Davis. Check out his mug. Of course the big wad of chew in his lower lip only enhances his neanderthal appearance.

 

f*** they are ugly.

 

Lol. I am glad big dick rick didn't back down.

[TylerD]

Rodriguez better come out tomorrow and pitch a decent game. He has been f***ing awful.

 

He's bee inconsistent for sure but he has proven he can have some great games. He's still young and has a lot of skill. Regardless playing Baltimore no matter who Is pitching it will be tough but yes E Rod needs to bring everything he has tomorrow

[Bellhorn04]

I'm going to say something here because people read gamethreads and almost never read general baseball discussions.

 

If asked what it takes to build a winning MLB team, most people would say pitching then hitting, but, if at all possible, have both.

 

Right now easily the three best records in the AL belong to the Sox, Guardians, and Rangers, who just happen to be ranked 1st, 2d, and 3d in the AL in runs scored. Conversely, the three best AL pitching staffs, defined as having given up the fewest runs, are the Guardians, Jays, and Astros.

 

Moreover, the pitching staffs--again, defined in terms of runs given up--are kind of tightly bunched. The Guardians are best at 626, but the Mariners, way back in 8th place, have given up 656 runs, just 30 more runs than the Guardians. The Sox lead the AL in runs scored with 830, and the 8th best team, again the Astros, has scored 678, which is a difference of 152 runs.

 

Also, the top six scoring teams are the Sox, Guardians, Rangers, Mariners, Jays, and Orioles--5 of which are likely to be in the playoffs. This is not true of the top 6 pitching staffs.

 

I am not anti-pitching. Far from it. I think our bullpen has been crucial to our success thus far in September. And I like moonslav and others get frustrated when our lineup gets shut down or limited to 1 or 2 runs. Nevertheless, it's also good to have a lineup that leads MLB in runs scored.

 

This is when the correct answer is "run differential rules".

[S5Dewey]

I'm going to say something here because people read gamethreads and almost never read general baseball discussions.

 

If asked what it takes to build a winning MLB team, most people would say pitching then hitting, but, if at all possible, have both.

 

Right now easily the three best records in the AL belong to the Sox, Guardians, and Rangers, who just happen to be ranked 1st, 2d, and 3d in the AL in runs scored. Conversely, the three best AL pitching staffs, defined as having given up the fewest runs, are the Guardians, Jays, and Astros.

 

Moreover, the pitching staffs--again, defined in terms of runs given up--are kind of tightly bunched. The Guardians are best at 626, but the Mariners, way back in 8th place, have given up 656 runs, just 30 more runs than the Guardians. The Sox lead the AL in runs scored with 830, and the 8th best team, again the Astros, has scored 678, which is a difference of 152 runs.

 

Also, the top six scoring teams are the Sox, Guardians, Rangers, Mariners, Jays, and Orioles--5 of which are likely to be in the playoffs. This is not true of the top 6 pitching staffs.

 

I am not anti-pitching. Far from it. I think our bullpen has been crucial to our success thus far in September. And I like moonslav and others get frustrated when our lineup gets shut down or limited to 1 or 2 runs. Nevertheless, it's also good to have a lineup that leads MLB in runs scored.

 

Ya...see, this is one of those posts that sticks in my craw. Why? Because at no point in all six paragraphs of the post is the word "DEFENSE" even mentioned.

 

When JBJ or Mookie make those diving catches in the outfield and when XBo goes deep into the hole to throw someone out it's the result of DEFENSE, not pitching and certainly not offense. But some people overlook it, giving credit to the pitcher. What??? It's the pitcher who allowed the hitter to put the ball in a place where the defensive player had to make that play!

 

In Monday night's one-run game JBJ made an outstanding catch just prior to Sanchez' HR that definitely saved a run, and Mookie made TWO outstanding catches late in the game... but we're led to believe that defense isn't as important as offense or pitching???

 

My best guess would be that if a team has average hitting, average pitching, and average offense they're going to be an average team. If they excel in any one area they're going to be that much better, and the more areas they excel in the better they're going to be.

[Slasher9]

I'm going to say something here because people read gamethreads and almost never read general baseball discussions.

 

If asked what it takes to build a winning MLB team, most people would say pitching then hitting, but, if at all possible, have both.

 

Right now easily the three best records in the AL belong to the Sox, Guardians, and Rangers, who just happen to be ranked 1st, 2d, and 3d in the AL in runs scored. Conversely, the three best AL pitching staffs, defined as having given up the fewest runs, are the Guardians, Jays, and Astros.

 

Moreover, the pitching staffs--again, defined in terms of runs given up--are kind of tightly bunched. The Guardians are best at 626, but the Mariners, way back in 8th place, have given up 656 runs, just 30 more runs than the Guardians. The Sox lead the AL in runs scored with 830, and the 8th best team, again the Astros, has scored 678, which is a difference of 152 runs.

 

Also, the top six scoring teams are the Sox, Guardians, Rangers, Mariners, Jays, and Orioles--5 of which are likely to be in the playoffs. This is not true of the top 6 pitching staffs.

 

I am not anti-pitching. Far from it. I think our bullpen has been crucial to our success thus far in September. And I like moonslav and others get frustrated when our lineup gets shut down or limited to 1 or 2 runs. Nevertheless, it's also good to have a lineup that leads MLB in runs scored.

offense gets you bunting hanging in the stadium in October. pitching gets you parades.

[Slasher9]

btw...SFF is now my favorite "original" TS poster. dude shows up and puts up a 5 game win streak at the most crucial part of the season.

big d!ck SFF....

[S5Dewey]

offense gets you bunting hanging in the stadium in October. pitching gets you parades.

 

I'm of the opinion that there's a correlation between outstanding standing defense and good pitching.

[Slasher9]

I'm of the opinion that there's a correlation between outstanding standing defense and good pitching.

 

agreed. i consider defense to be part of the pitching. or pitching to be part of the defense.

offense = bunting / defense = parades

[Thunder]

I'm of the opinion that there's a correlation between outstanding standing defense and good pitching.

 

Yes. The pitcher is less afraid to put the ball in play, and in the case of someone like Porcello, a ground ball pitcher, that really puts him at his best level.

[S5Dewey]

agreed. i consider defense to be part of the pitching. or pitching to be part of the defense.

offense = bunting / defense = parades

 

I don't see it that way. Good defense can make the pitching look very good while poor defense can make even good pitching look bad. And a team's record look even worse.

 

Here's a quick example that comes to my mind immediately. This team has lost FOUR games on walk-off errors this year. That's four games they've lost to poor defense, and those losses weren't pitching-dependent. I have no idea why some people underrate defense the way they do.

[Maxbialystock]

offense gets you bunting hanging in the stadium in October. pitching gets you parades.

 

A lot of truth in that. In the postseason pitching seems to predominate--see especially 2013.

[Maxbialystock]

Ya...see, this is one of those posts that sticks in my craw. Why? Because at no point in all six paragraphs of the post is the word "DEFENSE" even mentioned.

 

When JBJ or Mookie make those diving catches in the outfield and when XBo goes deep into the hole to throw someone out it's the result of DEFENSE, not pitching and certainly not offense. But some people overlook it, giving credit to the pitcher. What??? It's the pitcher who allowed the hitter to put the ball in a place where the defensive player had to make that play!

 

In Monday night's one-run game JBJ made an outstanding catch just prior to Sanchez' HR that definitely saved a run, and Mookie made TWO outstanding catches late in the game... but we're led to believe that defense isn't as important as offense or pitching???

 

My best guess would be that if a team has average hitting, average pitching, and average offense they're going to be an average team. If they excel in any one area they're going to be that much better, and the more areas they excel in the better they're going to be.

 

Interesting point. No denying the Sox have a very good defensive outfield, and every pitcher worth his salt is continually thankful when his defense helps prevent runs. But I happen to think that hitting and pitching are the primary determiners of game outcomes. Defense is very important, of course, but I think it's 3d.

[S5Dewey]

Interesting point. No denying the Sox have a very good defensive outfield, and every pitcher worth his salt is continually thankful when his defense helps prevent runs. But I happen to think that hitting and pitching are the primary determiners of game outcomes. Defense is very important, of course, but I think it's 3d.

 

IMO it all comes down to what we document and what we tend to remember. Sunday night's game is a good example of it. Everyone remembers Hanley's HR because it's exciting and makes a statement. It goes down in the book as a 3-run HR and everyone cheers.

 

OTOH, JBJ's catch early in the game and Mookie's two catches later in the game are applauded but at the end of the game (and in the book) they're written down as "F8" or "F9" and while they're not forgotten at the same time they're not given the importance they deserve. Those catches not only deprived the Yankees of the immediate runs it's also very possible that they kept them from scoring even more runs by "robbing" them of 1/3 of an inning. When compared to average defense it's a two-out "swing", the difference between two outs in an inning and four outs. It's HUGE.

 

We've always disagreed on this point and we probably always will. It's fine.

[Bellhorn04]

IMO it all comes down to what we document and what we tend to remember. Sunday night's game is a good example of it. Everyone remembers Hanley's HR because it's exciting and makes a statement. It goes down in the book as a 3-run HR and everyone cheers.

 

OTOH, JBJ's catch early in the game and Mookie's two catches later in the game are applauded but at the end of the game (and in the book) they're written down as "F8" or "F9" and while they're not forgotten at the same time they're not given the importance they deserve. Those catches not only deprived the Yankees of the immediate runs it's also very possible that they kept them from scoring even more runs by "robbing" them of 1/3 of an inning. When compared to average defense it's a two-out "swing", the difference between two outs in an inning and four outs. It's HUGE.

 

We've always disagreed on this point and we probably always will. It's fine.

 

Thank goodness we have UZR and WAR now.

[a700hitter]

Thank goodness we have UZR and WAR now.

Yes, I need a stat to tell me that Bradley and Betts are excellent at tracking down flyballs. Who knew!

[a700hitter]

Living in Maryland, I definitely hate the Orioles more than any other MLB team. They are a joke, the stadium is literally more Sox fans than Orioles fans, and the stadium was mostly empty for a team playing meaningful games in September. Its pathetic.

With the Red Sox leading the Division, Camden Yards would normally be packed with Sox fans. That had been the case for years, but after the town got burned to the ground during riots when the Red Sox were in town last years and they told fans not to leave the stadium, Boston fans stopped making the trip.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, I need a stat to tell me that Bradley and Betts are excellent at tracking down flyballs. Who knew!

 

Everybody knows that, but the advanced metrics actually try to calculate the number of runs these two save, which is sort of cool IMO...

 

It's like everybody knows Papi is a great hitter but it's nice to know his actual HR's & RBI's etc....

[a700hitter]

Everybody knows that, but the advanced metrics actually try to calculate the number of runs these two save, which is sort of cool IMO...

 

It's like everybody knows Papi is a great hitter but it's nice to know his actual HR's & RBI's etc....

RBI and HRs are accurate. Runs saved is not.

[Bellhorn04]

RBI and HRs are accurate. Runs saved is not.

 

I thought you liked WAR now, after your post about Yaz's 1967 WAR.

[User Name]

a700 hates progress. Get off his lawn.

[a700hitter]

I thought you liked WAR now, after your post about Yaz's 1967 WAR.

No, I do not. It was the greatest season tht I have seen in my lifetime. I did not need WAR to tell me how great his 1967 season was. The WAR numbers just back up my opinion. I didn't need it, and I have no idea about the accuracy of that measure.

[a700hitter]

a700 hates progress. Get off his lawn.

I love progress. I am always living in the moment and planning for the future.