How will this team finish the season?

[Jasonbay44]

I think we can all agree that the rotation outside of Wright/Porcello has been awful. We have two spots in the rotation who don't even give the team a CHANCE to win most of the time. E-Rod, Elias, O'Sullivan, Buchholz, Owens, and Kelly have combined to make 30 starts and we've gotten a combined 7 quality starts from them, which is pathetic.

 

Price will get better, I definitely believe that and am confident in that, but the team couldn't afford him having a below average 1st half, especially for his standards and money with how bad the rest of the rotation is. Him being bad has definitely hurt the team more than anybody else, most of us expected Buchholz to be out for the season with some ******** injury at this point anyway, the fact he is sucking isn't a surprise and to blame the season on him isn't fair. He sucks, but this season is far from his fault.

 

Something needs to be done to have any shot this year. We have two blackholes, an under-performing ace in Price, a guy pitching like an ace in Wright and a guy pitching solid in Porcello, which won't get it done. If Price doesn't turn his s*** around very soon AND a move for a SP isn't made, this team will finish third or worse.

 

I'm usually pretty positive about the outlook of this team, but this team has way too many issues at the moment.

[iortiz]

I think we can all agree that the rotation outside of Wright/Porcello has been awful. We have two spots in the rotation who don't even give the team a CHANCE to win most of the time. E-Rod, Elias, O'Sullivan, Buchholz, Owens, and Kelly have combined to make 30 starts and we've gotten a combined 7 quality starts from them, which is pathetic.

 

Price will get better, I definitely believe that and am confident in that, but the team couldn't afford him having a below average 1st half, especially for his standards and money with how bad the rest of the rotation is. Him being bad has definitely hurt the team more than anybody else, most of us expected Buchholz to be out for the season with some ******** injury at this point anyway, the fact he is sucking isn't a surprise and to blame the season on him isn't fair. He sucks, but this season is far from his fault.

 

Something needs to be done to have any shot this year. We have two blackholes, an under-performing ace in Price, a guy pitching like an ace in Wright and a guy pitching solid in Porcello, which won't get it done. If Price doesn't turn his s*** around very soon AND a move for a SP isn't made, this team will finish third or worse.

 

I'm usually pretty positive about the outlook of this team, but this team has way too many issues at the moment.

At this point Jason, we need 2 SPs and a reliever if we want to compete. A No. 1-2, a solid No. 4-5 and a setup.

[Jasonbay44]

At this point Jason, we need 2 SPs and a reliever if we want to compete. A No. 1-2, a solid No. 4-5 and a setup.

 

I agree, but if Price could turn back into David Price and at least one starter was acquired, this offense could carry a rotation with only one black-hole. But point is, we need a lot to happen right now. Its just frustrating, because Orioles rotation is equally as awful as ours and they are 6 games ahead of us now.

[a700hitter]

You take my comments out of context and apply hyperbole to them.

 

When I mention that Papi was part of the offensive woes last May, and he was, I was in no way making him my 'victim'. I was simply stating a fact. The offense stunk last May, and that was a large part of why the team fell out of contention. Not the only part, but a large part.

 

When I said that Price is not pitching like an ace and that he needs to pitch better, I am not 'jumping all over him'. Again, I was simply stating a fact. Within the same argument, I said that he was not the problem, I said that he gets more time to become acclimated, I said that I am confident that he will return to ace level soon, and I praised him for owning up to his pitching rather than making excuses. You just choose to ignore these things.

 

And I'd like to know how I can be a homer when I'm supposedly making players victims with my undue criticism and jumping all over them? These are tactics you use to try to undermine my credibility whenever my opinion does not gel with yours.

 

Try debating what I'm actually saying, which in this argument was that Price is not pitching like the ace that we thought we were getting. Can you debate that statement?

You blamed the offense last year for the Red Sox not being in first place at the ASB. No hyperbole there. No need to debate it either as you were completely wrong.

 

As for your criticism of Price, it speaks for itself loudly in contrast to your defense of Buch. No hyperbole there either. Just reading what you write.

[a700hitter]

Price is pitching like a #4/#5. that means we need to fix the TOTR. show me a world series team where the "Ace" had a 4.74 ERA for the season. but i can find a ton of WS teams that had terrible 4 & 5 starters during the season....

Okay, we get it. you think it is all the fault of Price. Had Price been Price, we would be the Cubs. I disagree. Even if Price pitches like a Cy Young, the 4th and 5th spots will sink this team if not fixed.

[a700hitter]

No, it doesn't fix the rotation.

What it does do is give DD some time to make a deal, before the team completely falls out of contention.

 

and I'll tweet Price about his pitching as soon as you tweet DD about "fixing the rotation".

They'll be equally effective...

I'll repeat my thought on this. Price pitching like Cy Young cannot save this rotation. As far as buying DD some time, DD put himself in this position. Plus, I think if Price was pitching lights out, the FO would continue to think they were on the right track. I don't think they would feel the need to fix anything. And they would be mistaken, imo.

[a700hitter]

No, it doesn't fix the rotation.

What it does do is give DD some time to make a deal, before the team completely falls out of contention.

 

and I'll tweet Price about his pitching as soon as you tweet DD about "fixing the rotation".

They'll be equally effective...

The tweeting remark was snark on my part, but your solution that Price needs to pitch better is specious at best. Why not just tell Buch or the random #5 to pitch better? Is that a solution? No. Neither is it a solution to say that Price has to pitch better. Price is probably working on that and I am pretty confident that he will get better. I have no such confidence in Buch or random #5. They need to be replaced.

[SoxnCycles]

The tweeting remark was snark on my part, but your solution that Price needs to pitch better is specious at best. Why not just tell Buch or the random #5 to pitch better? Is that a solution? No. Neither is it a solution to say that Price has to pitch better. Price is probably working on that and I am pretty confident that he will get better. I have no such confidence in Buch or random #5. They need to be replaced.

 

Because we know Buchholz is incapable of pitching better.

Price is capable, but is not getting it done, for whatever reason.

And it's no more specious of a solution than saying the rotation needs to fixed and Price will be better... someday.

[a700hitter]

Because we know Buchholz is incapable of pitching better.

Price is capable, but is not getting it done, for whatever reason.

And it's no more specious of a solution than saying the rotation needs to fixed and Price will be better... someday.

If Price gives us 200 innings we don't need him to win CY Young to be a good team. We need to replace the parts of the rotation that can't fix themselves. As you said, Price can pitch better, and i believe that he will. He is not going to lower his season ERA to under 2, but he will get it under 4 and that will be good enough if we get some solutions on the back end of the rotation. I have identified a problem that can be fixed with a personnel change. That is within the control of the team management. Getting a player to play better is not in the control of the team management. That is why it is a specious solution. Let's agree to disagree. You think the solution is Price pitching better. I think you will get your wish, and I don't think it will make a difference unless my issue is addressed.

[SoxnCycles]

If Price gives us 200 innings we don't need him to win CY Young to be a good team. We need to replace the parts of the rotation that can't fix themselves. As you said, Price can pitch better, and i believe that he will. He is not going to lower his season ERA to under 2, but he will get it under 4 and that will be good enough if we get some solutions on the back end of the rotation. I have identified a problem that can be fixed with a personnel change. That is within the control of the team management. Getting a player to play better is not in the control of the team management. That is why it is a specious solution. Let's agree to disagree. You think the solution is Price pitching better. I think you will get your wish, and I don't think it will make a difference unless my issue is addressed.

 

Right, because obtaining a decent pitcher doesn't require that other team cooperate, or that the aquired pitcher will perform after said trade.

It's all within the Red Sox' control. They just need to snap their fingers.

 

I don't understand why it hasn't happened already.

 

And you keep suggesting I think getting rotation help is irrelevant. You're wrong. It's not an either/or situation.

[a700hitter]

Right, because obtaining a decent pitcher doesn't require that other team cooperate, or that the aquired pitcher will perform after said trade.

It's all within the Red Sox' control. They just need to snap their fingers.

 

I don't understand why it hasn't happened already.

 

And you keep suggesting I think getting rotation help is irrelevant. You're wrong. It's not an either/or situation.

you lost me. Acquiring personnel is one of management's main functions. I don't expect that they will just snap their fingers. I just hope that they do their jobs well. I certainly hope they do more than lecture Price about pitching better.

[Kimmi]

Buchh is done Kim. He is not SP anymore.

 

IMO and considering how the market seems right now, it's going to be tough to grab an arm.

 

As I've been saying the last two years, get the goddamn pitching in the offseason.

 

If Buchholz does not pitch well tomorrow, he should be out of the rotation.

 

After Sunday, the Sox won't need a 5th pitcher until July 25th, I believe. Whoever is called up to take ERod's place can be our #4, and Buchholz can go back to the pen.

[Kimmi]

I agree, but if Price could turn back into David Price and at least one starter was acquired, this offense could carry a rotation with only one black-hole. But point is, we need a lot to happen right now. Its just frustrating, because Orioles rotation is equally as awful as ours and they are 6 games ahead of us now.

 

Some interesting stats I read earlier:

 

In the month of June, the Os offense offense hit like the Sox offense did earlier. Their team OPS is .888 and their team BABIP is .340. They will come back down to earth.

 

In the meantime, every member of the Sox starting line up (except for Young) saw a decline in their OPS in June.

[a700hitter]

If Buchholz does not pitch well tomorrow, he should be out of the rotation.

 

After Sunday, the Sox won't need a 5th pitcher until July 25th, I believe. Whoever is called up to take ERod's place can be our #4, and Buchholz can go back to the pen.

We already don't have a #5. If we take Buch out of the rotation, we will have 2 empty spots. Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

[Slasher9]

We already don't have a #5. If we take Buch out of the rotation, we will have 2 empty spots. Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

 

you are forgetting about our $31MM AAV #5 David Price....

[a700hitter]

you are forgetting about our $31MM AAV #5 David Price....

Oye. You have one note.

[Station 13]

We already don't have a #5. If we take Buch out of the rotation, we will have 2 empty spots. Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

 

This pisses me off, Elias, Johnson, Owens simply don't take the advantage of the opportunities to be in the big league.

[a700hitter]

I don't understand the reluctance by some to expend prospects to bollster our pitching staff. The FO should have certain untouchables-- maybe Moncada, Benintendi and Epinoza, but everyone of our prospects is not going to make it.

 

 

• We have young cost controlled stars in 2 OF positions, so there really isn't a path for more than 1 OF prospect to make the big team
  
• We have a very young All Star SS-- there is no path at SS
  
• Shaw is young, cost controlled and solid, plus we have 3 years of Panda on the DL -- no great need to find a path at 3rd
  
• Pedroia is under a long term contract so there is no immediate path there
  
• Vasquez is the catcher of the future -- Swihart looks to be blocked at catcher and he is not our best OF prospect.
  

 

Other than first base, one outfield position and DH we have a very young solid core at the MLB level already. We need pitching. Many in our current group of prospects will not get to Fenway-- so why not maximize their value to the Red Sox by getting some pitching? I don't see it at selling the future. The future is here. It is XB, Betts, Bradley, Vasquez, and Shaw. Benintendi, Moncada, Devers and Swihart are not all going to make it unless one or more of the core guys is traded. My betting is that only 2 of them will have significant Red Sox careers. Moncada is the sure bet. The rest are in the same boat.

[mvp 78]

This pisses me off, Elias, Johnson, Owens simply don't take the advantage of the opportunities to be in the big league.

 

Johnson had 1 start in Boston. He's been injured and dealing with anxiety issues ever since.

[Jack Flap]

I don't understand the reluctance by some to expend prospects to bollster our pitching staff. The FO should have certain untouchables-- maybe Moncada, Benintendi and Epinoza, but everyone of our prospects is not going to make it.

 

 

• We have young cost controlled stars in 2 OF positions, so there really isn't a path for more than 1 OF prospect to make the big team
  
• We have a very young All Star SS-- there is no path at SS
  
• Shaw is young, cost controlled and solid, plus we have 3 years of Panda on the DL -- no great need to find a path at 3rd
  
• Pedroia is under a long term contract so there is no immediate path there
  
• Vasquez is the catcher of the future -- Swihart looks to be blocked at catcher and he is not our best OF prospect.
  

 

Other than first base, one outfield position and DH we have a very young solid core at the MLB level already. We need pitching. Many in our current group of prospects will not get to Fenway-- so why not maximize their value to the Red Sox by getting some pitching? I don't see it at selling the future. The future is here. It is XB, Betts, Bradley, Vasquez, and Shaw. Benintendi, Moncada, Devers and Swihart are not all going to make it unless one or more of the core guys is traded. My betting is that only 2 of them will have significant Red Sox careers. Moncada is the sure bet. The rest are in the same boat.

 

 

I agree that those three guys should be pretty much untouchable, or close to it...I'm not sure the rest of the argument really holds, though. Guys like Devers who are at least 2-3 years away can't truly be "blocked," in my opinion, because who knows what our needs will be by the time they're ready...and even Swihart isn't really blocked until Vazquez shows he can hit his weight consistently. I'm not saying we shouldn't trade those guys if it makes sense to, but we shouldn't feel like we need to, either. Too often we've heard that we have too many outfielders, too many catchers, or whatever, and then someone gets hurt and someone else fails to meet expectations and suddenly you're calling up Sandy Leon or Bryce Brentz.

[a700hitter]

I agree that those three guys should be pretty much untouchable, or close to it...I'm not sure the rest of the argument really holds, though. Guys like Devers who are at least 2-3 years away can't truly be "blocked," in my opinion, because who knows what our needs will be by the time they're ready...and even Swihart isn't really blocked until Vazquez shows he can hit his weight consistently. I'm not saying we shouldn't trade those guys if it makes sense to, but we shouldn't feel like we need to, either. Too often we've heard that we have too many outfielders, too many catchers, or whatever, and then someone gets hurt and someone else fails to meet expectations and suddenly you're calling up Sandy Leon or Bryce Brentz.

Betts, Bradley and Bogaerts are going to keep a lot of guys in the minors. Unless we trade them or they get a career impacting injury (knocking on wood), there will be very few openings for a large group of prospects. The numbers are that most will not make it with the Red Sox.

[Kimmi]

We already don't have a #5. If we take Buch out of the rotation, we will have 2 empty spots. Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

 

O'Sullivan is being called up to start on Sunday. If he pitches remotely well and Buchholz doesn't, Buchholz should be the odd man out. We won't need a 5th pitcher until close to the end of the month.

[Kimmi]

I don't understand the reluctance by some to expend prospects to bollster our pitching staff. The FO should have certain untouchables-- maybe Moncada, Benintendi and Epinoza, but everyone of our prospects is not going to make it.

 

 

• We have young cost controlled stars in 2 OF positions, so there really isn't a path for more than 1 OF prospect to make the big team
  
• We have a very young All Star SS-- there is no path at SS
  
• Shaw is young, cost controlled and solid, plus we have 3 years of Panda on the DL -- no great need to find a path at 3rd
  
• Pedroia is under a long term contract so there is no immediate path there
  
• Vasquez is the catcher of the future -- Swihart looks to be blocked at catcher and he is not our best OF prospect.
  

 

Other than first base, one outfield position and DH we have a very young solid core at the MLB level already. We need pitching. Many in our current group of prospects will not get to Fenway-- so why not maximize their value to the Red Sox by getting some pitching? I don't see it at selling the future. The future is here. It is XB, Betts, Bradley, Vasquez, and Shaw. Benintendi, Moncada, Devers and Swihart are not all going to make it unless one or more of the core guys is traded. My betting is that only 2 of them will have significant Red Sox careers. Moncada is the sure bet. The rest are in the same boat.

 

I am not reluctant to trade some prospects to improve the team. I understand that we have to give in order to get. What I am against is gutting the farm system in an effort to win now at any cost. There's a difference. That's why I have said many times that picking up a mid rotation starter would probably make more sense than picking up a top of the rotation guy.

[bowman]

O'Sullivan got his butt handed to him the last time. Hope he does something. Pretty sad to have those pitchers going in a must series for the sox and Farrell.

[Kimmi]

O'Sullivan got his butt handed to him the last time. Hope he does something. Pretty sad to have those pitchers going in a must series for the sox and Farrell.

 

He's pitched pretty well in AAA recently. You would think that he could at least keep the team in the game.

[bowman]

Trout in a sox uniform may never happen, but wow, what a impact he'd be. Like having a young Roger Clemens or the Celts getting Durant. Fenway would go nuts. I know pipe dream..

[Jasonbay44]

He's pitched pretty well in AAA recently. You would think that he could at least keep the team in the game.

 

Based on what? He has a career 6.03 ERA and 1.59 WHIP in 54 career starts.

[d-money]

Great we have O' Sullivan to save the day tomorrow. Embarrassment of riches

[a700hitter]

Great we have O' Sullivan to save the day tomorrow. Embarrassment of riches

But who will pitch for his softball team, and there will be a lot of beer left over.

[SoxHop]

For the love of all things good........ can we find one man....... one person........one individual................... who can hold down the 4 slot in the rotation...........

 

I've gave up on the 5 slot......... all I ask is a number 4 pitcher....