Retire Jason Varitek's number?

[Dojji]

Anyone with me? They're lowering the standards, and frankly Tek might have made it in under the old standards since he played his whole career here. I think it would be a great way to recognize the guy who was one of the smartest catchers we've ever seen and made a lot of sacrifices for this team, as well as leading them to their first 2 World Series rings in the modern era. As starting catcher of both versions of the team he had a big role in how they got those Series titles. As much as I do think Boggs should be recognized, or at least I don't have a problem with the decision to recognize him, when it comes down to real contributions to the team Tek probably deserves it a little more.

[Elktonnick]

They will retire his number one day but not this year. It looks like they are in thee process of retiring numbers periodically whenever they need a PR boost. They appear to want to generate positive buzz by having a public discussion about retiring numbers. I think Tony C, Ortiz, Evans, and Veritek's numbers will all be retired in the next few years if Henry continues to own the team.

[cp176]

I think that Varitek is an obvious logical choice. Boggs is going up but it should not be ahead of the players that we have been discussing. If it had been Tek and not Boggs we would have had one hell of a lot less to talk about.

[mvp 78]

Nope. Not HOF worthy.

[Kimmi]

Varitek is the man, and largely underappreciated, especially in his later years when his offense had declined.

 

I would much rather see his number retired than Boggs'.

[Kimmi]

Nope. Not HOF worthy.

 

He may not be HOF worthy anyway, but part of the reason why he's not HOF worthy right now is because of the old school criteria that most voters use.

[mvp 78]

He may not be HOF worthy anyway, but part of the reason why he's not HOF worthy right now is because of the old school criteria that most voters use.

 

I wouldn't put Terry Steinbach in the HOF either (similar career war).

[mvp 78]

Tek is #60 in JAWS for catchers. Not sure there are ANY metrics that could put him in the HOF.

[a700hitter]

Love Tek, but no. It is so decreed. Lol!

[cp176]

He may not be HOF worthy anyway, but part of the reason why he's not HOF worthy right now is because of the old school criteria that most voters use.

 

I loved the guy but seriously what criteria would put him in the HOF?

[Kimmi]

I loved the guy but seriously what criteria would put him in the HOF?

 

As I said, he might not be HOF worthy anyway (probably not), but for one, HOF voters do not give enough credit for defense. Pitch framing or calling a good game?

 

It seems that offensively, the big things that the voters look at are batting average, hits, HRs, and RBIs. There is value to all of those stats, but there are better ways to assess offensive value, or at least other things that should be looked at in addition to those.

 

My understanding is that voters also give weight to how many Gold Glove awards a player has won or how many times a player has been voted into the All Star Game. In many cases, those are not valid ways to judge a player.

[Elktonnick]

Nope. Not HOF worthy.

 

When the Red Sox retired Pesky's number they changed the criteria about being in the HOF in order to have one's number retired..

[mvp 78]

When the Red Sox retired Pesky's number they changed the criteria about being in the HOF in order to have one's number retired..

 

Pesky's number shouldn't be retired imo.

[Elktonnick]

Pesky's number shouldn't be retired imo.

 

Too late now!

[Dojji]

Point is the door is open so we can't say "we can't." Only valid options are "we should" or "we shouldn't."

[Elktonnick]

For what it's worth the retiring of Pesky's number was more in recognition of what he meant to the Red Sox franchise after his playing days were over. If he hadn't been such a presence in the organization in his post playing days, if instead he pursued some other occupation well outside of baseball it is doubtful that his number would have been retired. IMO

[Bellhorn04]

I guess the issue is that the eligibility guidelines are kind of muddy now.

[cp176]

As I said, he might not be HOF worthy anyway (probably not), but for one, HOF voters do not give enough credit for defense. Pitch framing or calling a good game?

 

It seems that offensively, the big things that the voters look at are batting average, hits, HRs, and RBIs. There is value to all of those stats, but there are better ways to assess offensive value, or at least other things that should be looked at in addition to those.

 

My understanding is that voters also give weight to how many Gold Glove awards a player has won or how many times a player has been voted into the All Star Game. In many cases, those are not valid ways to judge a player.

 

 

I realize your feelings about what you see as "old school" vs "new school". The impression you give is that of people having to be entrenched in one or the other. Has to be a nice blend of old and new to be successful I think in just about anything. With respect to Varitek, I would imagine that anyone who ever saw him play recognized easily what his strengths were. He was simply outstanding in just about everything a catcher really needs to be outstanding at. He won't be in the HOF because he was not a complete enough player to be there. Red Sox great for sure. HOF candidate - don't think so. Retired Red Sox jersey - yup - right after Dewey.

[mvp 78]

Too late now!

 

If I win powerball and buy the team, I'll unretire it the next day.

[Elktonnick]

If I win powerball and buy the team, I'll unretire it the next day.

 

Can you unring a bell?

[BOSOX11]

Varitek is HOF worthy by the mere act of shoving his mitt in A-Roid's face.

[Spitball]

When the Red Sox retired Pesky's number they changed the criteria about being in the HOF in order to have one's number retired..

 

I think there has to be some understanding here. Johnny Pesky was associated with the Boston Red Sox for 61 years. He is known as Mr. Red Sox. Sometimes there has to be an understanding of a franchise with the historic glorification of certain humans.

[mvp 78]

I think there has to be some understanding here. Johnny Pesky was associated with the Boston Red Sox for 61 years. He is known as Mr. Red Sox. Sometimes there has to be an understanding of a franchise with the historic glorification of certain humans.

 

He already has a statue, that's enough.

[Kimmi]

Pesky's number shouldn't be retired imo.

 

I have no problem with Pesky's number being retired.

[Kimmi]

I realize your feelings about what you see as "old school" vs "new school". The impression you give is that of people having to be entrenched in one or the other. Has to be a nice blend of old and new to be successful I think in just about anything. With respect to Varitek, I would imagine that anyone who ever saw him play recognized easily what his strengths were. He was simply outstanding in just about everything a catcher really needs to be outstanding at. He won't be in the HOF because he was not a complete enough player to be there. Red Sox great for sure. HOF candidate - don't think so. Retired Red Sox jersey - yup - right after Dewey.

 

My feelings about someone being old school or new school is not an insult. My father is very much old school, and I respect and admire him more than any other man. I also realize it's not an either or thing. Old school people do use stats, though I don't think they utilize the saber stats enough. New school people still use the eye test and the traditional stats, though their preference is sabermetrics. The thing about watching a player play to know how good he is only works to a certain extent, as do the traditional stats.

 

My opinion is that the voters for HOF and most other baseball awards are too old school. That's all it is, my opinion.

[a700hitter]

This all code for ageism.

[cp176]

My feelings about someone being old school or new school is not an insult. My father is very much old school, and I respect and admire him more than any other man. I also realize it's not an either or thing. Old school people do use stats, though I don't think they utilize the saber stats enough. New school people still use the eye test and the traditional stats, though their preference is sabermetrics. The thing about watching a player play to know how good he is only works to a certain extent, as do the traditional stats.

 

My opinion is that the voters for HOF and most other baseball awards are too old school. That's all it is, my opinion.

 

I'm ok with your opinions.

[mvp 78]

This all code for ageism.

 

Kids are people too!

[mvp 78]

I'm ok with your opinions.

 

I'm ok with anyone's opinion. We're all just shooting the s***, right?

[a700hitter]

I'm ok with anyone's opinion. We're all just shooting the s***, right?

Shooting the s***, spitballing, thinking out loud (digitally) etc.