Miley dealt to the M's

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox deal Aro and Miley for Elias and Carson Smith.

 

Wtf? I thought Zjurienczyk was gone? This is a fleecing for Boston. Elias provided the same production albeit in a bigger ballpark and Smith has been a hell of a reliever. Aro is a throwaway. What a dumb deal by Seattle

[Youk Of The Nation]

The sox deal Aro and Miley for Elias and Carson Smith.

 

Wtf? I thought Zjurienczyk was gone? This is a fleecing for Boston. Elias provided the same production albeit in a bigger ballpark and Smith has been a hell of a reliever. Aro is a throwaway. What a dumb deal by Seattle

 

Well, it's still not the worst trade Seattle ever made with Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hard to top Heathcliff

[Bellhorn04]

The Heathcliff trade came about because Seattle had a historically bad bullpen, blowing games left, right and center. Lou Piniella was on the verge of catastrophic psychosis.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well, I wish Miley luck. He might be a better fit for SafeCo, it's far less of a hitter's park than Fenway.

[sk7326]

Deal fits both teams - Sox got a couple of solid arms (granted they both worked in a lot of great pitcher's parks)

 

Miley's peripherals were in line with his career (aside from a drop in strikeout rate) - some evidence of bad luck and defense in his performance. Seattle gets him into a friendlier pitching environment, and Miley is extremely durable, and the Mariners needed some back end starting. Miley was a 2 win pitcher last year, which is an excellent value given the contract. I am not weeping for Seattle here - it's not easy to find 200 starting innings, even 200 meh ones.

[Dojji]

Actually Elias has comparisons to #2-3 guys like Anibal Sanchez, and to add a decent to great relief prospect into the mix is a fantastic trade for Dombrowski.

 

It looks like the M's were looking for a veteran to add some stability to the middle of their rotation and Miley can give tham that. I can see why the Mariners made the move but it definitely helps us too. If you look at the Mariners' rotation they didn't get a lot of innings this year from anyone in their starting 5 other than the King. Their next best starter only gave them 170 innings. In that environment it's a lot easier to see the appeal of a guy like Wade Miley to them, a guy who's going to make all his starts and reduce the load on the bullpen and the prospects -- especially if a trip to a pitchers ballpark may improve his numbers.

 

I wouldn't judge this trade as a steal for Boston until we see how Aro does in a Mariners uniform. He's pitched very very well in the minors and I'm guessing he's a key to the deal from their perspective, similar to the Shields trade by KC that also brought them the guy who closed out the World Series, or the Beckett trade that landed us Mike Lowell.

 

Frankly this looks like one of those trades where both sides can look at it and say "We gave up reasonable value to get what we wanted and our team is now better than it was." The Mariners rotation was very light on the kind of professional inning stuffers that Miley represents, and we definitely gained in terms of both upside and roster flexibility.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Dojji

[GomesBeard]

Miley definitely grew on me, especially last year when there was a definitely lack of toughness in the rotation. But Price sets the tone now, and hopefully his toughness and fire will rub off on guys like Clay, Porcello and Kelly. But the bullpen is looking pretty spiffy now, and to think that the Sox are mostly done before the winter meetings wrap up.... Now maybe just a cherry to put on top. I do like the roster that Pete Abraham posted on his FB page this am.

 

https://www.facebook.com/peter.abraham.globe/?fref=nf

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, you're full of s***. Elias is a lefty who has been mediocre in Safeco. Sanchez has been a borderline ace until last year. Comparing the two is dumb.

 

The M's wanted a durable starter behind Felix, especially with Iwakuma gone. They'll have Karns and Miley out there and roll with the rest

[Spudboy]

In any case the M's fans are ******** about this trade. They think that Miley and Elias are comparable and that they lost an excellent young BP arm. Go figure.

 

 

As I have pointed out several times and Sk has reminded us, 200 inning eaters are not an easy commodity to find. Just look at our starting 5 to see that.

 

I like the upside of a hard throwing young BP arm in Smith. I hope that the Boston starters can pitch well enough not to over burden the pen. If they don't, this trade will have accomplished very little in the end.

[jacksonianmarch]

So this leaves...

 

1. Price

2. Buchholz

3. Rodriguez

4. Porcello

5. Kelly/Owens?

 

The deal is a steal for Boston but it now thrusts guys who are either known to be inconsistent or unknowns into the 5th spot and forces more of the spotlight onto Porcello as he moves up the pecking order. It's a good rotation if healthy, but the likelihood of Buchholz staying healthy is low and with an elbow that cost him half a season, we don't even know if he will be healthy from the start. I don't have Elias in there right now because I don't think he is in Boston long. I could see Elias and Owens or Kelly flipping for a durable but more productive pitcher than Miley all the while adding Smith to the pen. This move gave Boston a lot more options. DD has been money this offseason

[Kimmi]

As I said in the other thread, I really like this deal, and I'm big fan of consistent, innings type pitchers. I think that Boston got the better of this deal, but I wouldn't say that Seattle got fleeced.

 

Elias, at the very least, is a depth piece, and he could turn out to be more than that, either as a starter or in the bullpen.

 

Another added benefit to this trade is that the Sox were able to shed some payroll, albeit a small amount.

[Behindenemylines]

The sox deal Aro and Miley for Elias and Carson Smith.

 

Wtf? I thought Zjurienczyk was gone? This is a fleecing for Boston. Elias provided the same production albeit in a bigger ballpark and Smith has been a hell of a reliever. Aro is a throwaway. What a dumb deal by Seattle

 

Gives the Sox the potential for a deep bullpen to shorten the game. That is the formula the Royals have used.

[Dojji]

Not just the Royals. In 07 we had Pap, Oki, MDC, and some pretty good depth behind them (Javier Lopez was very good pitcher that the Sox found off the scrap heap that has had a really solid career since, that year was Timlin's swan song and he went on an impressive run just as Eric Gagne fell apart completely, he really was the guy that made the Gagne trade not kill us, and even Kyle Snyder managed to not be completely ineffective that year). This team has built good bullpens and won with them in the past. Edited December 9, 2015 by Dojji

[cp176]

So this leaves...

 

1. Price

2. Buchholz

3. Rodriguez

4. Porcello

5. Kelly/Owens?

 

The deal is a steal for Boston but it now thrusts guys who are either known to be inconsistent or unknowns into the 5th spot and forces more of the spotlight onto Porcello as he moves up the pecking order. It's a good rotation if healthy, but the likelihood of Buchholz staying healthy is low and with an elbow that cost him half a season, we don't even know if he will be healthy from the start. I don't have Elias in there right now because I don't think he is in Boston long. I could see Elias and Owens or Kelly flipping for a durable but more productive pitcher than Miley all the while adding Smith to the pen. This move gave Boston a lot more options. DD has been money this offseason

 

 

If Brian Johnson is healthy, his name will part of this mix. He doesn't have the power arm of Kelly, but he knows how to pitch. I think that if healthy he will become a better option ultimately than Owens.I think that he is a better "pitcher" right now than either Kelly or Owens.

[jacksonianmarch]

Smith-Tazawa-Uehara-Kimbrel. That's a 5 inning game right there, assuming Farrell doesn't burn them into the ground. Layne was pretty deadly vs lefties last yr, but Farrell would need to resist the temptation to leave him out there. The OPS against was akin to facing Mike Trout every time he faced a righty.

[Elktonnick]

Smith-Tazawa-Uehara-Kimbrel. That's a 5 inning game right there, assuming Farrell doesn't burn them into the ground. Layne was pretty deadly vs lefties last yr, but Farrell would need to resist the temptation to leave him out there. The OPS against was akin to facing Mike Trout every time he faced a righty.

 

I personally think Smith is more likely to be the 7th or 8th inning guy than Koji or Tazawa. The biggest problem is Farrell's mismanagement of the bullpen. I recall Jim Palmer during Orioles Red Sox games being highly critical of Farrell's handling of the pen, particularly Farrell having guys warming up needlessly and never bringing them into the game. This is one of the Orioles and Showalter's specialties managing the bullpen workload.

 

There is no question that the 2015 weak rotation early in the year contributed to burning out the pen. Nevertheless, Farrell has to do a better job managing when guys warm up and bringing guys into the game at the appropriate time.

[sk7326]

One other note on the Miley deal is to note that DiPoto, Seattle's GM did do a bit of a ride-along with Boston late last season, so Miley is not being acquired blind. I think it's probably a mild win for Boston, but both teams addressed needs with surplus - which is what you want from trades generally.

[Elktonnick]

One other note on the Miley deal is to note that DiPoto, Seattle's GM did do a bit of a ride-along with Boston late last season, so Miley is not being acquired blind. I think it's probably a mild win for Boston, but both teams addressed needs with surplus - which is what you want from trades generally.

 

I am not a Mariners fan but I can't see the complaint. The got a starter who virtually guarantees them 200 innings in a pitcher's ball park. They gave up future potential in order to have a better chance to win now. They have a lot of money invested in Cano and Hernandez. They need to show some return on that investment by winning sooner rather than later.

[cp176]

One other note on the Miley deal is to note that DiPoto, Seattle's GM did do a bit of a ride-along with Boston late last season, so Miley is not being acquired blind. I think it's probably a mild win for Boston, but both teams addressed needs with surplus - which is what you want from trades generally.

 

I don't look at trades that way. The needs of each team need to be taken into consideration. From a Boston perspective it represents a great trade right now. We have pitchers that look like they can give us what he gave us. I like him and all but that still is the bottom line. We need bullpen help and in the process of a rebuild Smith looks really really good. If Seattle needed a starter who was dependable although average then they got their man. Among Owens, Johnson, Wright, Porcello, and Kelly, we have Miley pretty well covered. Johnson being my sleeper pick. If Seattle has Smith covered well good job to both teams.

[Kimmi]

Not just the Royals. In 07 we had Pap, Oki, MDC, and some pretty good depth behind them (Javier Lopez was very good pitcher that the Sox found off the scrap heap that has had a really solid career since, that year was Timlin's swan song and he went on an impressive run just as Eric Gagne fell apart completely, he really was the guy that made the Gagne trade not kill us, and even Kyle Snyder managed to not be completely ineffective that year). This team has built good bullpens and won with them in the past.

 

Speaking of Oki, he's looking to make a comeback.

[Dojji]

Good for him. I'd be interested in seeing him if he wanted to come back to beantown

[Orange Juiced]

Smith-Tazawa-Uehara-Kimbrel. That's a 5 inning game right there, assuming Farrell doesn't burn them into the ground. Layne was pretty deadly vs lefties last yr, but Farrell would need to resist the temptation to leave him out there. The OPS against was akin to facing Mike Trout every time he faced a righty.

 

Those five pitchers (Smith/Taz/Koji/Kimbrel/Layne), used correctly, form a pretty awesome bullpen. That means that the Sox only really need 5-6 innings from guys like Kelly or Rodriguez.

[jacksonianmarch]

OJ, in a vacuum that is what it means, but the problem is, can Farrell resist the temptation to do it too often? You have a 3-1 lead with ERod pitching in the 6th, do you have someone warming? That's the question. Part of managing a pen is managing which times you give the starter some rope.

[Orange Juiced]

OJ, in a vacuum that is what it means, but the problem is, can Farrell resist the temptation to do it too often? You have a 3-1 lead with ERod pitching in the 6th, do you have someone warming? That's the question. Part of managing a pen is managing which times you give the starter some rope.

 

Yeah that's a great question, jackson. They have enough quality arms (especially if Barnes develops and Workman comes back....who knows) so that they should be able to mix and match as needed. Price should give them 7-8 on a nightly basis. Porcello certainly has that ability. It's Rodriguez and Kelly in particular that, even when they're on, probably won't give you more than 6. Those are the nights where you're gonna have to dig deeper into the pen.

[Dojji]

Steven Wright becomes an interesting name in that context. He averaged nearly 6 innings a start himself, with a reasonable ERA, last year as a SP. If we haver durability problems in the rotation next year his name might be one that comes up.

 

Wright as a starter last year (ignoring his relief outings), 9 starts, 52.1 IP, 3-4, ERA 3.98. Over 32 starts that's about 180 innings pitched or so with an ERA of maybe a tick under 4 maybe a tick over. That's not an ace or anything but it is pretty nice to fill out the 5 spot. Wright is worth a look.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Dojji

[Bellhorn04]

The only issue with Wright is that he's out of options so he can't be stashed.

[Dojji]

He may break camp as the long man anyway TBH

[Kimmi]

Good for him. I'd be interested in seeing him if he wanted to come back to beantown

 

I'd take a flyer on him.

[Kimmi]

OJ, in a vacuum that is what it means, but the problem is, can Farrell resist the temptation to do it too often? You have a 3-1 lead with ERod pitching in the 6th, do you have someone warming? That's the question. Part of managing a pen is managing which times you give the starter some rope.

 

The difference in managing the pen this year versus how Farrell had to manage the pen last year is that he should be able to manage this year by choice rather than by necessity.