2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[Spudboy]

Where did you hear he asked to go home instead of stay with the team.

 

I've seen only articles of him saying he is ok and wants to be back playing and wanted to take a shot at playing first. If anything what I've read it looks like he is fine, but the FO doesn't want him at first and shut him down. I haven't seen anything saying he wont play first or wont until he feels comfortable playing the position.

 

I think the FO just shut him down and doesn't want any part of him at first. I don't think they ever did. They had chances to before he was "hurt".

 

The FO wants him gone IMO.

 

Maybe you are getting other info than I am, but I have been looking all year for a smoking gun on Hanley to show that he is not just lazy on the field and that he is a bad clubhouse guy. And I just haven't seen it. I haven't seen anything to that said he went above and beyond to improve, but nothing I've seen said he quit or wont play.

 

I believe I heard these things about Hanley from several sources. I have no idea where you live but here in the Boston market almost every beat reporter and media talking head has voiced these things. Gordone Edes, Sean McAdam, and Nick Cafardo are among the many people that have conveyed these things, accurate or not.

 

I have not said, nor have I heard anything about Hanley being a cancer in the clubhouse in BOSTON. But he does have a bad reputation for be somewhat of a selfish and disingenuous douche nozzle.

 

I agree that the Sox wanted him gone. But he was the one who approached the Sox about retreating to Ft. Lauderdale.

 

The move to 1st was a joke that very few people have believed would actually happen.

[SoxHop]

I believe I heard these things about Hanley from several sources. I have no idea where you live but here in the Boston market almost every beat reporter and media talking head has voiced these things. Gordone Edes, Sean McAdam, and Nick Cafardo are among the many people that have conveyed these things, accurate or not.

 

I have not said, nor have I heard anything about Hanley being a cancer in the clubhouse in BOSTON. But he does have a bad reputation for be somewhat of a selfish and disingenuous douche nozzle.

 

I agree that the Sox wanted him gone. But he was the one who approached the Sox about retreating to Ft. Lauderdale.

 

The move to 1st was a joke that very few people have believed would actually happen.

 

Fair enough....... I might have missed it then.... and I read almost all those guys articles. I don't have TV so it's rare for me to see the shows and interviews and such.....

 

I'm in Austin by the way.......... I'm sure there's a lot more Sox talk in your parts.......... around here all they do is ask me to say "park the car" and Bar Harbor" all the time.

 

We'll. I find that too bad. There have been many articles praising Hanley also. He seemed to be really hurt when Farrell announced he had cancer. Chili spoke well of him, so did Farrell. Ortiz of course. Actually Chili's article I thought was the most interesting. He talked about how much respect he shows for the coaching staff. For some reason I never thought that would be the case. I thought Hanley would be indifferent to them.

 

I'm going to guess that Hanley may be seeing the writing on the wall and wanted to just be removed for the rest of the year. The FO would have a lot of balls bringing him back next year, big brass balls. I don't think any person has balls that big, or would want to bring Hanley back anyway. So, I hope he is gone and I hope we don't take a huge hit.

 

Yea, Hanley at first should be the punch line of a joke......

[a700hitter]

Where did you hear he asked to go home instead of stay with the team.

 

Gordon Edes reported it:

 

The Red Sox have given Hanley Ramirez permission to begin his offseason rehab process at his home in Fort Lauderdale, which ESPN Boston’s Gordon Edes feels is a curious and perhaps telling move from the team. While Ramirez has been shut down for 2015 due to a shoulder injury, Edes notes that the likes of Dustin Pedroia, David Ortiz, Koji Uehara and Junichi Tazawa all remained with the club despite being shut down with past and current injuries in order to keep supporting their teammates. It could just be a case of bad optics, or it could be a hint that the Red Sox don’t have Ramirez in their future plans and will try to trade him this winter.

[SoxHop]

Gordon Edes reported it:

 

Get out of here....... I read that article a few days ago............ I didn't pick up on that........

 

I'm still going to give Hanley the benefit of the doubt........ he sucked this year........... he knows he sucked............... he knows he isn't coming back................ he's thinking I might as well be getting ready for next year............ the FO goes......... yea................ we have a ticket already printed.

[a700hitter]

Get out of here....... I read that article a few days ago............ I didn't pick up on that........

 

I'm still going to give Hanley the benefit of the doubt........ he sucked this year........... he knows he sucked............... he knows he isn't coming back................ he's thinking I might as well be getting ready for next year............ the FO goes......... yea................ we have a ticket already printed.

I really have not seen any character assassination of Hanley. He has played awful and then stopped playing and his team played good ball without him and then he disappeared and went home. There were management excuses for his fielding all season long. The story of Hanley 2015 just stunk to high heaven.

[SoxHop]

I really have not seen any character assassination of Hanley. He has played awful and then stopped playing and his team played good ball without him and then he disappeared and went home. There were management excuses for his fielding all season long. The story of Hanley 2015 just stunk to high heaven.

 

I don't get the quitting part. Maybe now......... cause he knows he's gone............

 

Yea, he can't play left. I saw him being lazy in left.......... but never at the plate......... he stunk............. but he was pissed off about it..........

 

I have an easy time joking around about someone's baseball game.......... but when I'm calling out the man.........I need to be sure.........

[a700hitter]

I don't get the quitting part. Maybe now......... cause he knows he's gone............

 

Yea, he can't play left. I saw him being lazy in left.......... but never at the plate......... he stunk............. but he was pissed off about it..........

 

I have an easy time joking around about someone's baseball game.......... but when I'm calling out the man.........I need to be sure.........

I don't blame him. He didn't bitch or moan or complain. I blame Ben for committing so much money to him on the blind assumption that he could transition to the OF. It took me one look on a play that he was 100 feet away from to realize that he was not an OFer. Then they were inflexible about moving him to the IF, because they were boxed in with a big contract to Pablo at 3B and they refused to move him to first base, because they refused to bench Napoli who was hitting like he was blindfolded. I blame Ben for the bad signing, but it doesn't change the fact that he has no place on this team unless he can play first base. Unless he looked really good working out at 1B, I don't think DD will want another defensive experiment that has the potential to wreck your season.

[Bellhorn04]

The fact that they didn't get Hanley into even one single meaningless game at 1B this year does not bode well for them trying it next year.

[Kimmi]

I believe I heard these things about Hanley from several sources. I have no idea where you live but here in the Boston market almost every beat reporter and media talking head has voiced these things. Gordone Edes, Sean McAdam, and Nick Cafardo are among the many people that have conveyed these things, accurate or not.

 

I have not said, nor have I heard anything about Hanley being a cancer in the clubhouse in BOSTON. But he does have a bad reputation for be somewhat of a selfish and disingenuous douche nozzle.

 

I agree that the Sox wanted him gone. But he was the one who approached the Sox about retreating to Ft. Lauderdale.

 

The move to 1st was a joke that very few people have believed would actually happen.

 

All of the things that those writers are conveying is speculation. They, just like many fans, are "reading between the lines" and speculating that Hanley has quit, that he refused to play first base, that he's not really injured, etc.

 

It's true that he has some baggage from the past. However, as you mentioned, we really have not heard any direct reports about any issues in the clubhouse or with his teammates, etc. Only speculation.

 

It's quite possible that some of these things turn out to be true. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. Right now there is no proof of any of that. He really doesn't deserve the criticism on his character based on speculation. Criticize his baseball play all you want, but I think the dislike for Hanley because of his terrible play is being displaced onto his character.

[Kimmi]

I don't blame him. He didn't bitch or moan or complain. I blame Ben for committing so much money to him on the blind assumption that he could transition to the OF. It took me one look on a play that he was 100 feet away from to realize that he was not an OFer. Then they were inflexible about moving him to the IF, because they were boxed in with a big contract to Pablo at 3B and they refused to move him to first base, because they refused to bench Napoli who was hitting like he was blindfolded. I blame Ben for the bad signing, but it doesn't change the fact that he has no place on this team unless he can play first base. Unless he looked really good working out at 1B, I don't think DD will want another defensive experiment that has the potential to wreck your season.

 

It was not a "blind" assumption that Hanley could transition to left field. It was an educated assumption.

 

That is not the issue right now with Hanley though. I happen to agree with you that he really has no position to play on this team next year, unless he surprises us all and can play first base decently. I have said many times that I have my doubts about that. I have been against putting him at first base all along.

 

That said, I think it was Lovullo who said that Hanley actually looked really good taking grounders at first before he was shut down. Their concern is how he will handle throws to him from his infielders, which is no small concern.

[a700hitter]

It was not a "blind" assumption that Hanley could transition to left field. It was an educated assumption.

 

That is not the issue right now with Hanley though. I happen to agree with you that he really has no position to play on this team next year, unless he surprises us all and can play first base decently. I have said many times that I have my doubts about that. I have been against putting him at first base all along.

 

That said, I think it was Lovullo who said that Hanley actually looked really good taking grounders at first before he was shut down. Their concern is how he will handle throws to him from his infielders, which is no small concern.

i disagree. It was a blind assumption. Cherries never saw him play the outfield and there was no data regarding him playing the outfield. That is blind.

[Dojji]

I'll be honest, I think the team's plan right now is to break camp with Travis Shaw at first base unless something surprising happens. Shaw has looked very very good.

[Kimmi]

I'll be honest, I think the team's plan right now is to break camp with Travis Shaw at first base unless something surprising happens. Shaw has looked very very good.

 

That could be, and Shaw has looked very good. If that's the case, though, they need to have a solid back up plan. Shaw's experience at the big league level is not extensive enough to know for sure that he can handle the job.

[SoxHop]

That could be, and Shaw has looked very good. If that's the case, though, they need to have a solid back up plan. Shaw's experience at the big league level is not extensive enough to know for sure that he can handle the job.

 

Yea....... he's been great so far......... but looking at what he did in the past at the lower levels can't bring much confidence. I think first is a position where we could improve and solidify. But if we can get production out of Shaw at his pay rate and use that money elsewhere that is good too......

 

I'm starting to worry about Castillo and JBJ's bat...........

[cp176]

All of the things that those writers are conveying is speculation. They, just like many fans, are "reading between the lines" and speculating that Hanley has quit, that he refused to play first base, that he's not really injured, etc.

 

It's true that he has some baggage from the past. However, as you mentioned, we really have not heard any direct reports about any issues in the clubhouse or with his teammates, etc. Only speculation.

 

It's quite possible that some of these things turn out to be true. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. Right now there is no proof of any of that. He really doesn't deserve the criticism on his character based on speculation. Criticize his baseball play all you want, but I think the dislike for Hanley because of his terrible play is being displaced onto his character.

 

I think that a lot of what you are saying is right. The genuine concern that I had with his signing had a lot more to do with his attitude and who he seemed to be while playing for other teams. His approach to the game which includes his attitude regardless of what anyone wants to think was one of the reasons the Sox unloaded him very early in his career. Bringing him back bothered me for those reasons. Fool me once ...! That being said, most of what I have read appears to be speculation with respect to the type of teammate he has been since coming to Boston. If he has been a negative influence on anyone and if he has caused problems in the clubhouse, no one is openly saying so. The media's attempt to sell stories once again does make you wonder if something is going on but I will reserve judgement until there is some real proof. I just don't want him back because there is no place for him to play and make a positive contribution next year.

[cp176]

i disagree. It was a blind assumption. Cherries never saw him play the outfield and there was no data regarding him playing the outfield. That is blind.

 

The length of the contract and the amount of money to be paid was ridiculous. Under a different set of circumstances it would have been a risk worth taking. Less money, fewer years. Throughout the history of the game, players have been able to transition from once position to another and still be adequate and get a job done. Before you saw him screw up his play in spring training, I don't think that anyone would have predicted that he would become the stiff that he became in left field. It just was not normal.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hanley has been a cancer everywhere he had gone. It is not surprising nor groundbreaking to assume he brought the same malignant attitude to the sox.

[Kimmi]

Yea....... he's been great so far......... but looking at what he did in the past at the lower levels can't bring much confidence. I think first is a position where we could improve and solidify. But if we can get production out of Shaw at his pay rate and use that money elsewhere that is good too......

 

I'm starting to worry about Castillo and JBJ's bat...........

 

I think one of the problems with the team early in the season was the amount of transitioning going on. We had a lot of players who were either playing new positions, playing on a new team, playing in a new league, or a combination of those things. This is true of the pitching staff as well as the position players. In that sense, it's good to have some continuity and some veteran team presence.

 

If JBJ and Castillo stick in the outfield, which I really hope they do, we'll have all three outfield positions, SS, and catcher filled with all relatively young and inexperienced players. If Shaw is our first baseman, that's another relatively young and inexperienced position. Pablo has a lot of MLB experience, but not so much with this team and in this league.

 

In terms of the bats, the potential is there for this offense to be very good. But there are some question marks with Castillo, JBJ, Vazquez, and Shaw.

 

They have shown in the past two months that they can play very well. Can they sustain it over a full season? I think so, but as I keep saying, there has to be a good plan B.

[Kimmi]

I think that a lot of what you are saying is right. The genuine concern that I had with his signing had a lot more to do with his attitude and who he seemed to be while playing for other teams. His approach to the game which includes his attitude regardless of what anyone wants to think was one of the reasons the Sox unloaded him very early in his career. Bringing him back bothered me for those reasons. Fool me once ...! That being said, most of what I have read appears to be speculation with respect to the type of teammate he has been since coming to Boston. If he has been a negative influence on anyone and if he has caused problems in the clubhouse, no one is openly saying so. The media's attempt to sell stories once again does make you wonder if something is going on but I will reserve judgement until there is some real proof. I just don't want him back because there is no place for him to play and make a positive contribution next year.

 

I don't agree with all of this, but this is a very fair post CP. I also had concerns regarding Hanley's attitude when I first heard of his signing. However, after hearing that he really wanted to play in Boston and that he volunteered to switch positions to do so, I felt a lot better about that.

 

There may or may not be some truth to the speculation. But at this point, that's all it is - speculation. It's similar to how so many people attacked Lackey's character when he was pitching poorly. I heard so many accusations of how he was a terrible teammate and a terrible person for divorcing his wife when she was battling cancer. All of that was speculation and none of it turned out to be true.

 

All that said, I understand why most people want Hanley off the team.

[Kimmi]

The length of the contract and the amount of money to be paid was ridiculous. Under a different set of circumstances it would have been a risk worth taking. Less money, fewer years. Throughout the history of the game, players have been able to transition from once position to another and still be adequate and get a job done. Before you saw him screw up his play in spring training, I don't think that anyone would have predicted that he would become the stiff that he became in left field. It just was not normal.

 

Even with the screw up in spring training, players can and usually do improve with more playing time and experience. It was a very reasonable expectation to think Hanley could, at minimum, be no worse in left field than he was at SS. Frankly, if Hanley had maintained his level of play from last season, he would be worth his contract. His contract was not ridiculous, except in hindsight.

[a700hitter]

The length of the contract and the amount of money to be paid was ridiculous. Under a different set of circumstances it would have been a risk worth taking. Less money, fewer years. Throughout the history of the game, players have been able to transition from once position to another and still be adequate and get a job done. Before you saw him screw up his play in spring training, I don't think that anyone would have predicted that he would become the stiff that he became in left field. It just was not normal.

Usually, those transitions happen with players who are already under contract. I can't remember any other player being acquired or signed for a big contract being transitioned to a position that he had never played without having the flexibility of being able to move him back to his natural position.

[a700hitter]

Even with the screw up in spring training, players can and usually do improve with more playing time and experience. It was a very reasonable expectation to think Hanley could, at minimum, be no worse in left field than he was at SS. Frankly, if Hanley had maintained his level of play from last season, he would be worth his contract. His contract was not ridiculous, except in hindsight.

What I saw was such a blaring lack of instincts needed to play the OF. Everyone in the stadium knew that the ball was an infield popup, and Hanley broke back toward the wall at top speed for 3 strides. And CP is right, I did not go to Spring Training thinking he would be terrible in the field. I assumed that the organization knew something about his ability in the OF possibly from his time in the Red Sox organization. What I saw that day was alarming enough that I thought his defense needed to be monitored.

[cp176]

Usually, those transitions happen with players who are already under contract. I can't remember any other player being acquired or signed for a big contract being transitioned to a position that he had never played without having the flexibility of being able to move him back to his natural position.

 

That is a very good point. Wish I had thought of it.

[cp176]

My Red Sox dream = David Price 9 ( free agent ) and Sonny Gray ( trade )

[Spudboy]

All of the things that those writers are conveying is speculation. They, just like many fans, are "reading between the lines" and speculating that Hanley has quit, that he refused to play first base, that he's not really injured, etc.

 

It's true that he has some baggage from the past. However, as you mentioned, we really have not heard any direct reports about any issues in the clubhouse or with his teammates, etc. Only speculation.

 

It's quite possible that some of these things turn out to be true. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. Right now there is no proof of any of that. He really doesn't deserve the criticism on his character based on speculation. Criticize his baseball play all you want, but I think the dislike for Hanley because of his terrible play is being displaced onto his character.

 

This post is speculation then.

 

Those reporters are on the scene every day and have "sources".

 

I don't give a rat's ass about Hanley personally. I do care about his non-performance.

 

Terrible signing.

[Bellhorn04]

My Red Sox dream = David Price 9 ( free agent ) and Sonny Gray ( trade )

 

And then you woke up, unfortunately.

[Dojji]

gray would cost us eddie

[Northern Star]

Even with the screw up in spring training, players can and usually do improve with more playing time and experience. It was a very reasonable expectation to think Hanley could, at minimum, be no worse in left field than he was at SS. Frankly, if Hanley had maintained his level of play from last season, he would be worth his contract. His contract was not ridiculous, except in hindsight.

 

Signing him for LF was ridiculous, in both foresight and hindsight.

[Northern Star]

Not happy about Farrell coming back.

[Kimmi]

Not happy about Farrell coming back.

 

Farrell is coming back, if healthy, with Lovullo returning as his bench coach. Lovullo has waived his right to interview for other managerial positions to be Farrell's right hand man. This says a lot about Lovullo. I like it. Should Farrell not be able to perform the job for any reason, we have a good man in Lovullo to step in.