Should the Red Sox move Mike Napoli along?

[Dojji]

What we have is a guy who's going to be 34 next year, still a good player, actually better first baseman than when he came here, and has the stick to make it work at his position, but he's signed to only 1 more year and there's a distinct chance that the Red Sox franchise is kidding itself about its chances in 2015. Now might be a good time to sell high to a team that needs a good two way first baseman or DH.

 

I might feel differently if I thought the team had any intention of re-signing Napoli after this year, but I suspect that's not in the cards anyway and trade options should be explored.

 

One trade I'm curious about is if we could trade Napoli to the Royals, who just declined their option on Billy Butler and so have an opening at DH, are in the playoff hunt next year, and have a reason to place a premium on guys signed for short years, and pick up some things that would help us on the pitching end -- say a lefty MR like Tim Collins or a durable middle of the road SP like Jeremy Guthrie or Jason Vargas. I see a possible match there. There are probably others.

 

Thoughts?

[Bellhorn04]

What we have is a guy who's going to be 34 next year, still a good player, actually better first baseman than when he came here, and has the stick to make it work at his position, but he's signed to only 1 more year and there's a distinct chance that the Red Sox franchise is kidding itself about its chances in 2015. Now might be a good time to sell high to a team that needs a good two way first baseman or DH.

 

I might feel differently if I thought the team had any intention of re-signing Napoli after this year, but I suspect that's not in the cards anyway and trade options should be explored.

 

One trade I'm curious about is if we could trade Napoli to the Royals, who just declined their option on Billy Butler and so have an opening at DH, are in the playoff hunt next year, and have a reason to place a premium on guys signed for short years, and pick up some things that would help us on the pitching end -- say a lefty MR like Tim Collins or a durable middle of the road SP like Jeremy Guthrie or Jason Vargas. I see a possible match there. There are probably others.

 

Thoughts?

 

The problem with the idea is what I bolded. I'm pretty sure the Red Sox are going to make the kind of moves that at least give them a chance on paper to be a playoff team. They're not going to send a message that they're already looking beyond 2015. I'm taking the PR component into account.

[GomesBeard]

A lot of teams are looking for right-handed power, and as noted, he's turned himself into at least an average glove. But I'd rather see the Sox maybe add another year onto his contract and keep him for now, then depending on how 2015 is going, if they suck, look to move him at the trade deadline.

[a700hitter]

If they move him along, that would open a slot for Craig at 1B, but will Craig rebound?

[Spudboy]

I agree with both Bellhorn and Gomes.

 

I am not confident that the Sox will be in contention for a playoff birth in 2015. However, the Sox brass is selling the idea that they will do everything possible to get back to being competitive. Trading away a good veteran player with swat and very good defensive skills sends the wrong message to the fan base.

 

Besides, he is the best 1st baseman in the organization. As long as his finger and jaw recover, he will most likely be back to something close to his 2013 offensive production. Which is pretty good. I say keep him and see how it goes.

 

It's a little ironic that Dojji has proposed unloading Nap. Several years ago Dojji campaigned to bring Napoli to Boston to be the catcher and part time 1st baseman.

 

Most people poo-pooed the idea. I'm glad that Nap is the Sox 1st baseman and until he falls off a cliff I say hold onto him. His power and on base skills are useful and he plays good defense, too.

[Dojji]

I like napoli a lot. He's a good player and I'm pleased that he turned out more or less the way I hoped he would for us -- and that it helped us win a ring -- but that doesn't change what the challenges and opportunities for the Boston Red Sox look like right now. Trading him may be the right move.

[BSN07]

If someone offers something good for Napoli I'd trade him. I mentioned him as part of a package for Hamels and Howard. I guess Craig could fill in or they could go out and pursue a LHH 1B. Not really sure who, FA is a bit thin so it have to be a trade. Diamondback aren't going anywhere, wonder what it take to get Goldschmidt lol

[Spudboy]

I like napoli a lot. He's a good player and I'm pleased that he turned out more or less the way I hoped he would for us -- and that it helped us win a ring -- but that doesn't change what the challenges and opportunities for the Boston Red Sox look like right now. Trading him may be the right move.

 

I realize the Sox have several formidable roster building challenges. I just don't think that they have to or should move him in the process. He is a Sox strength at a position of weak depth in the system. I say while no one other than Betts is untouchable in trade ( except for Stanton ), hold onto proven veteran players that are likely to produce many runs. Especially since Napoli is the Sox second best power hitter and a great fit on the Sox roster and in the Boston market. It's not like Napoli is on the decline. His production fell after he mangled his finger sliding into second base. That is an injury sustained from aggressive play, not from age.

 

While I am strongly against moving Napoli in trade ( I would even like to see him extended after 2015 if all goes well ), I would trade him if the return was huge. Otherwise, keep the strong components of the roster intact.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Spudboy

[sk7326]

I think they listen on Napoli. Not because they want to move him, but because he has legitimate value in the market. Also, key to this is the evaluation of Allen Craig. If the assessment is that Craig is not finished, he is probably only really playable at 1B.

[Bellhorn04]

I think they listen on Napoli. Not because they want to move him, but because he has legitimate value in the market. Also, key to this is the evaluation of Allen Craig. If the assessment is that Craig is not finished, he is probably only really playable at 1B.

 

That raises the grim prospect of trading Napoli and finding Craig's bat is as bad as it looked last year.

[jd98]

This one is interesting. First, the Sox should definitely plan on being contenders in 2015. They have Betts, Castillo, Cespedes as everyday OF. Victorino and Nava combined should be more than full time also. And then there's still Craig. Somebody needs to go, and probably two. Trading Napoli frees up the most money for this year, and then can move Craig and maybe Nava to 1B, but as a700 mentioned, that relies on Craig to bounce back, and it still doesn't clear up the OF logjam. I like BSN07's idea of including Nap in a package for Hamels and Howard, then if either of Howard or Craig bounce back, you're probably fine, and you still have Nava to fall back on or even Holt, and you've added an ace pitcher. So, yeah, I'd trade Napoli (and either Vic or Cespedes too).

[seabeachfred]

Good God, why are some of you out with a hard-on for Howard. The guy can't field, can't hit lefthanders, has been declining the past three seasons and has $60 million left on his contract. OTOH, Napoli is a proven winner who was curtailed this past season with a mangled hand and other assorted injuries. The guy is a perfect fit for Boston and healthy next season is a proven power hitter who plays a solid first base. We have a plethora of problems to be ironed out and one place we don't need help is first base. Please, let's move to other positions where we need to improve. Why weaken ourselves with someone, whether Howard or someone else, who might not fit in with Boston. Didn't we learn anything from Gonzales and Crawford?

[jd98]

Good God, why are some of you out with a hard-on for Howard. The guy can't field, can't hit lefthanders, has been declining the past three seasons and has $60 million left on his contract. OTOH, Napoli is a proven winner who was curtailed this past season with a mangled hand and other assorted injuries. The guy is a perfect fit for Boston and healthy next season is a proven power hitter who plays a solid first base. We have a plethora of problems to be ironed out and one place we don't need help is first base. Please, let's move to other positions where we need to improve. Why weaken ourselves with someone, whether Howard or someone else, who might not fit in with Boston. Didn't we learn anything from Gonzales and Crawford?

 

I have no interest in Howard. It would just make a Hamels trade easier. I mentioned in the other thread why Howard isn't so bad, so I'll keep it short. He wouldn't be facing lefties. I think the Phillies would pay a minimum of $40 million of his salary. Howard wasn't bad in 2013, vs righties he hit .302/.357/.522.

[Spudboy]

Good God, why are some of you out with a hard-on for Howard. The guy can't field, can't hit lefthanders, has been declining the past three seasons and has $60 million left on his contract. OTOH, Napoli is a proven winner who was curtailed this past season with a mangled hand and other assorted injuries. The guy is a perfect fit for Boston and healthy next season is a proven power hitter who plays a solid first base. We have a plethora of problems to be ironed out and one place we don't need help is first base. Please, let's move to other positions where we need to improve. Why weaken ourselves with someone, whether Howard or someone else, who might not fit in with Boston. Didn't we learn anything from Gonzales and Crawford?

 

I fully endorse this post!!!!

[Spudboy]

I have no interest in Howard. It would just make a Hamels trade easier. I mentioned in the other thread why Howard isn't so bad, so I'll keep it short. He wouldn't be facing lefties. I think the Phillies would pay a minimum of $40 million of his salary. Howard wasn't bad in 2013, vs righties he hit .302/.357/.522.

 

So he would be platooned at 1st base??????

 

Oye.

 

As Fred said, why create more problems unnecessarily.

[sk7326]

That raises the grim prospect of trading Napoli and finding Craig's bat is as bad as it looked last year.

 

Yeah that is the interesting question. Was that something an offseason without rehab can fix or a man's tattered remains?

[Palodios]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Texas, Dojji's Arlington doppleganger is clamoring for the AAA Round Rock Express to trade Che Hsua Lin.

 

But seriously, trading Napoli serves no purpose. His contract is good, not great. At best, the Red Sox might get a mid-tier prospect and leave a gaping hole at first.

[seabeachfred]

I have no interest in Howard. It would just make a Hamels trade easier. I mentioned in the other thread why Howard isn't so bad, so I'll keep it short. He wouldn't be facing lefties. I think the Phillies would pay a minimum of $40 million of his salary. Howard wasn't bad in 2013, vs righties he hit .302/.357/.522.

 

Being paid that kind of money, he would not be platooned and if he was, which he wasn't in Philadelphia who's to say that he won't get pissed off and help poison the clubhouse. Hell when we signed Drew, as pathetic and stupid a signing as Cherington could contemplate, even Drew hardly was platooned. No way. If this is a package deal, screw the Hamels trade and go for one of the big FA. Prune Face has the money.....it is about time he starts spending it again on quality and not trash.

[jd98]

But seriously, trading Napoli serves no purpose. His contract is good, not great. At best, the Red Sox might get a mid-tier prospect and leave a gaping hole at first.

Trading Napoli gives you $16 million to put towards SP, so there is a purpose. It also gives Craig somewhere to play if 2014 was a fluke. Pre-2014 Craig is better than Napoli has been with the Sox. 2014 Craig was horrendous. That's the quandary. It boils down to something like would you prefer De La Rosa as SP and Napoli at 1B, or Hamels as SP and Craig at 1B (I'm not mentioning [he who shall not be named] anymore). If Craig does bounce back, then it's a huge improvement for the team. If not, then you've upgraded 1 position and downgraded 1 position.

[GomesBeard]

Trading Napoli gives you $16 million to put towards SP, so there is a purpose. It also gives Craig somewhere to play if 2014 was a fluke. Pre-2014 Craig is better than Napoli has been with the Sox. 2014 Craig was horrendous. That's the quandary. It boils down to something like would you prefer De La Rosa as SP and Napoli at 1B, or Hamels as SP and Craig at 1B (I'm not mentioning [he who shall not be named] anymore). If Craig does bounce back, then it's a huge improvement for the team. If not, then you've upgraded 1 position and downgraded 1 position.

 

This assumes the only way we could get Hamels is by taking Howard. Why are we assuming that?

[BSN07]

This assumes the only way we could get Hamels is by taking Howard. Why are we assuming that?

 

Because a lot of us would rather take on Howards contract than give up the top prospects it would take to land Hamels otherwise. If taking on Howard and trading Napoli means the team nets Hamels and doesn't give up Betts, Bogaerts, or Swihart I'm all for it. Howard makes a lot but I don't care about the $, he's a short term deal at 2 years, 3 at the teams choice. I'm not saying Napoli should be traded, but with 1 year remaining and probably not in the long term plans of the team, a deal like that should be considered. I mean if it meant moving 1 year of Napoli for 4 years of Hamels you wouldn't do it? I'm not even overly big on Hamels but I'd still do it.

[MNSoxChief102]

Good God, why are some of you out with a hard-on for Howard. The guy can't field, can't hit lefthanders, has been declining the past three seasons and has $60 million left on his contract. OTOH, Napoli is a proven winner who was curtailed this past season with a mangled hand and other assorted injuries. The guy is a perfect fit for Boston and healthy next season is a proven power hitter who plays a solid first base. We have a plethora of problems to be ironed out and one place we don't need help is first base. Please, let's move to other positions where we need to improve. Why weaken ourselves with someone, whether Howard or someone else, who might not fit in with Boston. Didn't we learn anything from Gonzales and Crawford?

 

This. This. And more of This.

 

Howard's days as a top level bat have long since passed. The Sox should have zero interest in bringing him on board, regardless of how a potential Hamels trade shakes out.

[jd98]

This assumes the only way we could get Hamels is by taking Howard. Why are we assuming that?

 

Lol, I purposely didn't dare mention him, and he's still the part that get focused on. To answer your question, I'm not assuming that at all, it's just my preference. BSN07 explains it well above. Also, Hamels was just my example in those equations. You could replace him with Shields or somebody else if you wish.

[GomesBeard]

Lol, I purposely didn't dare mention him, and he's still the part that get focused on. To answer your question, I'm not assuming that at all, it's just my preference. BSN07 explains it well above. Also, Hamels was just my example in those equations. You could replace him with Shields or somebody else if you wish.

 

No, thanks, I don't want 'Big Lame' James at all....

[Bellhorn04]

Because a lot of us would rather take on Howards contract than give up the top prospects it would take to land Hamels otherwise. If taking on Howard and trading Napoli means the team nets Hamels and doesn't give up Betts, Bogaerts, or Swihart I'm all for it. Howard makes a lot but I don't care about the $, he's a short term deal at 2 years, 3 at the teams choice. I'm not saying Napoli should be traded, but with 1 year remaining and probably not in the long term plans of the team, a deal like that should be considered. I mean if it meant moving 1 year of Napoli for 4 years of Hamels you wouldn't do it? I'm not even overly big on Hamels but I'd still do it.

 

There's a $10 million buyout on Howard's 2017 option. A team acquiring him is either on the hook for $60 million for 2 years, or $73 million for 3 years.

[jd98]

There's a $10 million buyout on Howard's 2017 option. A team acquiring him is either on the hook for $60 million for 2 years, or $73 million for 3 years.

 

What you're saying is true from a money standpoint, but not for luxury tax purposes. For luxury tax purposes, you use the AAV over the entire contract, not just what's left, so the $25m AAV for the next 2 years already includes the $10m buyout. And as mentioned several times here and all over the internet, the Phillies will pay a huge part of that. And why I am still talking about [he who shall not be named].

 

No, thanks, I don't want 'Big Lame' James at all....

me neither, that's why I said 'or somebody else'. Currently, the Sox can probably only add 1 ace type pitcher, trading Napoli would probably allow for another that's not overly expensive like Scherzer. That's the big picture and would be my preference. If you don't want to go that route, I respect that opinion.

Edited November 12, 2014 by jd98

[Spudboy]

No, thanks, I don't want 'Big Lame' James at all....

 

The 33 year old thing worries me to some extent. My memory of Shields is that he was a very tough pitcher while with Tampa and his 2014 stats are still pretty good if you can get past his no-show in this off season.

 

Also, I don't see making anything more than a 2-3 year deal. I doubt that he would do that.

[Bellhorn04]

What you're saying is true from a money standpoint, but not for luxury tax purposes. For luxury tax purposes, you use the AAV over the entire contract, not just what's left, so the $25m AAV for the next 2 years already includes the $10m buyout. And as mentioned several times here and all over the internet, the Phillies will pay a huge part of that. And why I am still talking about [he who shall not be named].

 

Well, I'm getting a little confused here I guess. I thought the idea of taking Howard with Hamels was that it would reduce the prospect haul wanted by the Phillies. If they're not getting much salary relief on Howard they're still going to want the prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

Napoli is gonna have a good year. Fatigue in ball players is a nightmare and this guy struggled with sleep apnea. If the surgery works, which isn't guaranteed, he should feel better coming into 2015. That plus the motivation of another big contract should give him a boost so long as he stays healthy. Bank on a big Napoli season

[jd98]

Well, I'm getting a little confused here I guess. I thought the idea of taking Howard with Hamels was that it would reduce the prospect haul wanted by the Phillies. If they're not getting much salary relief on Howard they're still going to want the prospects.

 

You're pretty much right. I'd assume that the more the Phillies pay on [name redacted], the more prospects they would want. My original proposal was basically to pay $10 million the next 2 years for [that guy I'm trying not to talk about] for 1 less top prospect. Obviously I don't know if it would work exactly like that, but it seems reasonable from both sides.

 

Napoli is gonna have a good year. Fatigue in ball players is a nightmare and this guy struggled with sleep apnea. If the surgery works, which isn't guaranteed, he should feel better coming into 2015. That plus the motivation of another big contract should give him a boost so long as he stays healthy. Bank on a big Napoli season

 

That's a good point.