Lackey contract

[seabeachfred]

There have been multiple reports that Lackey may retire instead of pitching for the league minimum.

It is not paranoia to be concerned about losing the team's three best pitchers -- four if Koji retires-- because the team is to cheap to pay market value.

 

I wonder if this is not some order from upstairs that Cherington must operate under some stringent guidelines and that big contracts are now a thing of the past. Again, if the ownership and front office thinks that 2013 allows them to let key players walk and have a bridge year period of three or four seasons it will not sit well with anyone except the bootlickers who follow the party line ad nauseam. For the record, I was all in favor of the team giving a full chance to Bogey, JBjr and WMB when ST began and I still would love to see them hit their strides, but I just have to believe that their weak seasons so far has given Cherington and Co. pause to wonder if these guys were ready. Tonight they go against Scherzer, certainly not a great confidence builder. You mentioned the team being short a bat when the season began. If these three guy could start hitting consistently, Bogey with men on base and the other two with more regularity, we might be ok down the road. The division is wide open to the team who can finally separate themselves from the rest of the pack but right now we have major trouble putting more than two wins in a row together. Something is badly missing from the team this year and it is more than Ellsbury's absence.

[seabeachfred]

I don't think your concern is at all paranoid. Lester's value is going up as he continues to pitch well. He is at the top of the FA pitcher class. The Sox have not showed any recent inclination to pay market value for long term contracts. Also, the Yankees and the Dodgers will open their wallets for the. Guy and when they do, Ben will fold his tent and go home. I think that our window for retaining Lester will be closed if we don't do an in-season deal.

 

As for Lackey, the minimum wage clause was merely a part of negotiations. He never expected that the clause would be implemented. A guy at the end of his productive career is not going to want to play for pocket change. I expect a lot of posturing by him to get out of the deal. He has a lot of capital right now as he is our second best pitcher and he was instrumental in winning a world championship. He is going to expect respect (I.e., $). There is no way that he plays for us for the minimum next season unless it is coupled with a back ended 2-3 year guaranteed deal for big bucks. It will be a very complex negotiation and it is possible that we might lose him.

 

As for koji, he will be 40 next year and the FO has consistently demonstrated a reluctance for multiple year deals for relievers, so it is very Possible that we lose him.

 

Those who think this is paranoid thinking will be the first ones rationalizing the loss of these guys if it happens.

 

You can put money of that last sentence of yours Ted, and we know who will be the one rationalizing the longest and loudest.

[seabeachfred]

This doesn't really match up with what Lucchino said recently, which was a reiteration of things this FO has said before. Which is, they don't like handing out big free agent contracts, but they recognize there are circumstances in which it has to be done.

 

And no matter what party line man says, Lester is that circumstance where it has to be done. There is no guarantee that Barnes, Renaudo, Owens and the others are going to be ready to step in and keep us in contention. There is no guarantee that they will even be winning ML pitchers. Most pitching prospects never make it according to the odds. If we hit the jackpot on two of that group, which also includes Webster and Delarosa, we can consider ourselves Vegas bound. Even with that we still need two bell cows to the pitching staff who experience and winning know how can keep us in contention.

[Palodios]

Yes i can: Cliff Lee. He had better numbers than Lester, but he signed at a similar age. He could've gotten a bit more money from the Yankees, but not the ridiculous 27 per you're throwing around. In fact, i'm willing to bet neither he nor Scherzer will sniff 27 per, and Lester won't get 6 guaranteed years, nor will Scherzer get 7.

 

Put your money where your keyboard is.

 

So your argument is that Greinke is a bad comparison because of the age difference, but Cliff Lee isn't a bad comparison despite there also being a similar age difference, albeit in the other direction? You're mashing potatoes here. Statistically Greinke is much closer to Lester -- all the significant numbers are hundredths of points away from each other.

 

Also, Cliff Lee signed the equivalent of a hometown discount -- he turned down 7 year offers.

 

 

I'd put money on Lester getting either >110 from the Red Sox or 130 > someone else.

[User Name]

So your argument is that Greinke is a bad comparison because of the age difference, but Cliff Lee isn't a bad comparison despite there also being a similar age difference, albeit in the other direction? You're mashing potatoes here. Statistically Greinke is much closer to Lester -- all the significant numbers are hundredths of points away from each other.

 

Also, Cliff Lee signed the equivalent of a hometown discount -- he turned down 7 year offers.

 

 

I'd put money on Lester getting either >110 from the Red Sox or 130 > someone else.

 

Cliff Lee was months older than Lester will be when he signs, so what are you talking about? There's a huge difference between signing at 29 or 31-32. He's also a lefty like Lester (it matters), and has a career arc that is more consistent with Lester's given their playoff success prior to the big payday (it matters). You made up that argument all by yourself.

 

And while i know that Lee took a discount (i mentioned it above) there were no reported 7-year offers for him. Where'd you come up with that? He could've gotten one more year and more money, but you're "mashing potatoes" here.

 

My bet is 5/100 from the Sox or 5/130 with a vesting option from someone else.

Edited May 16, 2014 by User Name?

[BSN07]

I think he gets 5 years with a vesting option at 17m per from The Sox. On the Market I would expect him to get 6 years 20-25M per from someone. NYY would probably give 7 years at 27M if they want him. Scherzer will get 6-7 years at 20M+ per year. It's just how the FA market is now. Less and less high quality talent is becoming available and there is too much money and bold enough owners/GM's for them not to get those types of deals even if they aren't top tier talent.

[mvp 78]

I wonder if this is not some order from upstairs that Cherington must operate under some stringent guidelines and that big contracts are now a thing of the past. Again, if the ownership and front office thinks that 2013 allows them to let key players walk and have a bridge year period of three or four seasons it will not sit well with anyone except the bootlickers who follow the party line ad nauseam. For the record, I was all in favor of the team giving a full chance to Bogey, JBjr and WMB when ST began and I still would love to see them hit their strides, but I just have to believe that their weak seasons so far has given Cherington and Co. pause to wonder if these guys were ready. Tonight they go against Scherzer, certainly not a great confidence builder. You mentioned the team being short a bat when the season began. If these three guy could start hitting consistently, Bogey with men on base and the other two with more regularity, we might be ok down the road. The division is wide open to the team who can finally separate themselves from the rest of the pack but right now we have major trouble putting more than two wins in a row together. Something is badly missing from the team this year and it is more than Ellsbury's absence.

 

You're absolutely right. They should resign Drew immediately!

[Behindenemylines]

Red Sox paid him $30.50 million when his elbow was causing him problems in 2011 and 2012. Pitching for the minimum in 2015 would still be a good deal for Lackey.

 

The Sox paid good $$$$$ for 2011 and 2012 getting nothing in return. Lackey should honor his contract.

[Spudboy]

You're absolutely right. They should resign Drew immediately!

 

I second the motion!!!!!

[a700hitter]

I wonder if this is not some order from upstairs that Cherington must operate under some stringent guidelines and that big contracts are now a thing of the past. Again, if the ownership and front office thinks that 2013 allows them to let key players walk and have a bridge year period of three or four seasons it will not sit well with anyone except the bootlickers who follow the party line ad nauseam. For the record, I was all in favor of the team giving a full chance to Bogey, JBjr and WMB when ST began and I still would love to see them hit their strides, but I just have to believe that their weak seasons so far has given Cherington and Co. pause to wonder if these guys were ready. Tonight they go against Scherzer, certainly not a great confidence builder. You mentioned the team being short a bat when the season began. If these three guy could start hitting consistently, Bogey with men on base and the other two with more regularity, we might be ok down the road. The division is wide open to the team who can finally separate themselves from the rest of the pack but right now we have major trouble putting more than two wins in a row together. Something is badly missing from the team this year and it is more than Ellsbury's absence.

The good news is that we have also avoided lengthy losing streaks. As long as we can avoid losing streaks like last year, we should hover around .500 and be within striking distance. A couple of winning streaks would put some distance between us and the rest of the division. I just don't see us going on a winning streak until Buch starts pitching better and one of the kids start starts to figure it out at the plate. Also, Victorino is a must. Edited May 17, 2014 by a700hitter
sp

[Palodios]

And while i know that Lee took a discount (i mentioned it above) there were no reported 7-year offers for him. Where'd you come up with that?

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/12/08/cliff.lee.winter.meetings/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/red-sox-made-seven-year-offer-cliff-lee-raise-price-yankees-coveted-free-agent-source-article-1.472820

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-Winter-Meetings-Cliff-Lee-likely-to-get-7-year-deal-120610

http://nypost.com/2010/12/09/yankees-give-7-year-offer-to-lee/

 

My bet is 5/100 from the Sox or 5/130 with a vesting option from someone else.

So basically, you and I are both saying the same thing here. So yes, we're both mashing potatoes.