Dan Butler, Stealth Catcher

[Dojji]

BBR

Soxprospects

 

How exactly is it that we have a catcher in AAA, 26 years old, hitting to an .850 OPS, as near as I can tell his defense is solid or better in all aspects, even has the kind of strikeout to walk ratio and OBP strength the team likes in a catcher -- and no one's heard of the guy? The only reason I looked this kid up is that I didn't want to let my manlove for Christian Vazquez' arm blind me to other backup catching options so I did a little groundwork to see what else we had in other obvious potential backup catcher positions -- and there's the starting catcher for the Pawtucket Red Sox hitting like a champ and no one said a word to me about him.

 

All the numbers I have access to tell me that this kid could backup or even platoon for a big league team right now, heck there's a few teams he'd be starting for. Would probably be up with us if our catching options weren't already so crowded, and yet he's getting no attention -- at all.

 

Am I overreacting? Maybe a little. But this might be a hidden gem, and you know how I can be about them. What's the thought of some of the rest of the forum on this guy? How many had even heard of him?

Edited August 11, 2013 by Dojji

[BigPapi]

Well lav certainly had a good game today but I just looked up dan butlers stats and was wowed. 12 hrs, 270 average, 16 doubles, 854 OPS?? HOW HAS HE NOT BEEN MENTIONED AT ALL BY ANYONE ON NESN.

[rjortiz]

Well lav certainly had a good game today but I just looked up dan butlers stats and was wowed. 12 hrs, 270 average, 16 doubles, 854 OPS?? HOW HAS HE NOT BEEN MENTIONED AT ALL BY ANYONE ON NESN.

 

Because he's 26 and in AAA ball.

[marklmw]

The word is out ... run on the Red Sox. Pitchers are partially responsible but the catcher is the QB and he can see when a toss over is necessary. It would be awesome to have a catcher that can occasionally throw someone out.

[Dojji]

Because he's 26 and in AAA ball.

 

That's not a good excuse with catchers. If he was a shortstop the age thing might be an issue, but it's a known fact that catchers take longer to mature.

 

What age was Tek when he started really performing? How well did Salty do between ages 21 and 25? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. 26 isn't old for a catcher.

 

Thing is with Butler, he doesn't need to do everything he's showing he can do now to stick in the bigs at some point. While the above average bat might be a mirage he's also shown above average defense. That and an average, or even a below average, bat would play in the big leagues.

 

And what happens if the above avearge bat is NOT a miarge? This kid could start for someone.

 

This guy should be someone's backup catcher right now. He's really been overshadowed by 3 different catchers in our system (Lavs, Salty, and to a lesser extent Vazquez with his impressive Spring) but he's probably big league ready or close to it. He's the catching version of Daniel Nava -- older, yes, but give him a chance and he might surprise you yet.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Dojji

[rjortiz]

That's not a good excuse with catchers. If he was a shortstop the age thing might be an issue, but it's a known fact that catchers take longer to mature.

 

What age was Tek when he started really performing? How well did Salty do between ages 21 and 25? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. 26 isn't old for a catcher.

 

Thing is with Butler, he doesn't need to do everything he's showing he can do now to stick in the bigs at some point. While the above average bat might be a mirage he's also shown above average defense. That and an average, or even a below average, bat would play in the big leagues.

 

And what happens if the above avearge bat is NOT a miarge? This kid could start for someone.

 

This guy should be someone's backup catcher right now. He's really been overshadowed by 3 different catchers in our system (Lavs, Salty, and to a lesser extent Vazquez with his impressive Spring) but he's probably big league ready or close to it. He's the catching version of Daniel Nava -- older, yes, but give him a chance and he might surprise you yet.

 

When players are repeating a level at 26, and then suddenly start tearing up the league, I think age becomes a valid concern. He could develop into a nice backup catcher, but I don't really see that as something to get too excited about.

[Dojji]

This is Dan Butler's first full year at AAA. He played 22 games there last year. If that's "repeating a level" then a lot of prospects that made good repeated a level or two.

 

Actually thanks for making me look that up and confirm it. I was under the impression that he WAS coming off a full prior season in AAA. The fact that he isn't makes this all the more interesting.

 

I'm not trying to say this kid is the next Johnny Bench, but there's some reasons to be interested in this guy and we've heard nothing.

 

Really kind of hoping he gets into a game or two this September, just to get some idea of what we have there. Most likely a decent backup, but he wouldn't be the first catching prospect to break out in his late 20's -- not by a longshot.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Dojji

[rjortiz]

This is Dan Butler's first full year at AAA. He played 22 games there last year. If that's "repeating a level" then a lot of prospects that made good repeated a level or two.

 

Actually thanks for making me look that up and confirm it. I was under the impression that he WAS coming off a full prior season in AAA. The fact that he isn't makes this all the more interesting.

 

I'm not trying to say this kid is the next Johnny Bench, but there's some reasons to be interested in this guy and we've heard nothing.

 

Really kind of hoping he gets into a game or two this September, just to get some idea of what we have there. Most likely a decent backup, but he wouldn't be the first catching prospect to break out in his late 20's -- not by a longshot.

 

My mistake. Definitely improves his stock. Did some more research after reading this post. I read that he's a superior defender than Lavarnway, and probably isn't much worse with the bat. Maybe they should have brought him up over Lavarnway. I'd like to see him get some playing time over him in September, although with Ross due back soon, I don't think we will.

[lospunchados]

Yeah I am glad someone brought him up as i was wondering what his deal was as i haven't heard anything about him at all.

[Dojji]

Yeah I am glad someone brought him up as i was wondering what his deal was as i haven't heard anything about him at all.

 

It's mystifying. Even with other catchers and catching prospects hogging the limelight (Salty, Lavs, Vazquez, Swihart) you'd think he'd get some notice for hitting at the clip he's doing.

[Dojji]

Butler's final line in Pawtucket this year:

 

.829 OPS, .350. 14 HR, 23 XBH, .262 AVG

 

Not called up to Boston for September. That's his end of year line.

 

The average is noticeably low, but the combined package is still interesting. This is a kid who's done pretty much everything the team should expect of him. I really hope he isn't squeezed out by the wave of catching talent coming up behind him -- hope a spot is made open for him to compete for this Spring. If the team insists on a veteran backup in the big leagues he's going to have a real dogfight on his hands trying to fend off Lavarnway from one direction and Vazquez and possibly Swihart from the other.

[Dojji]

The real problem for butler is that the guys he's going to wind up competing directly with for big league backup time also did well.

 

Vazquez didn't hit for any real power, but finished with a .380 OBP. That with his outstanding defensive skills is enough to merit consideration, and as a specialist type, he's a player the team is going to identify as a useful roleplayer that much more easily.

 

And of course, the team is far more familiar with Lavarnway as well, and he's flashed some real offensive potential this year.

 

Butler's problem is that as the jack of all trades, he's the master of none. if the team want offense from their backup they'll go with lavs, if they want Defense, it'll be hard to ignore Vazquez. butler doesn't stand out in either area despite being the best all-rounder, and that's going to hurt him.

[SCM33]

Not again......

[mvp 78]

Not again......

 

Dojji is TS's Sisyphus.

[Dojji]

I'll cop to the label, if you'll admit that occasionally, very occasionally, the stone reaches the top of the hill.

[mvp 78]

I'll cop to the label, if you'll admit that occasionally, very occasionally, the stone reaches the top of the hill.

 

Nava and that's about it. He's a platoon player, but that's a better projection than what he had while in semi-pro and had his contract purchased for a $1.

[Dojji]

Nava, Kyle Snyder, and George Kottaras, and I'm claiming a win with Gabbard as well since he was a big help in 2007 when he came up and was very effective as a replacement for Schilling's rotation spot. They traded him at the right time, sure, but he came up big for the team at exactly the right time first.

 

How many of these guys do you think I've really gone all that bonzo for? It's not as many as you seem to believe.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Dojji

[User Name]

Gabbard did nothing at the MLB level, and Kottaras is a below-replacement level catcher, and you hyped both incessantly. Neither are wins.

 

And you're flat-out lying about the "guys you've gone bonzo for": Gabbard, Kottaras, Hunter Jones, Tug Hullet (let's just go ahead and say anyone who's played for the Royals), Lars Anderson the spectacular flameout, Reddick the one-year wonder (and you banged that drum HARD), Che-Hsuan Lin and all his offensive suck among others i'm sure i could find if i had the time for it.

 

And you've only hit on Nava. 1-for-the-universe.

[mvp 78]

Yeah replacement level players aren't a win...

 

I'll give you Nava, but nothing else.

[Bellhorn04]

Dojji should get extra points for Nava though. Nava should cancel out at least 2 of Dojji's bad picks.

[User Name]

He'd still be at around -20 at best.

[mvp 78]

Dustin Richardson superfan.

[User Name]

Oh right, Richardson. And i know there was another s***** OF he kept pimping, but i just can't remember who it is.

[mvp 78]

Thinking of Yamaico Navarro?

[SCM33]

Nava, Kyle Snyder, and George Kottaras, and I'm claiming a win with Gabbard as well

 

These are your "wins"?

 

I'd hate to see what the "losses" group looks like.

[Dojji]

Thinking of Yamaico Navarro?

 

Navarro still has a shot. He's got some versatility and he's shown a bit of stick in the minors. If he can get a bigger sample size in the majors I'd expect him to be able to crack a roster as a half decent utility man.

 

It may not happen. In fact it's fair to see the odds are against him. but it's not entirely off the table yet.

 

There's no point in trying to defend myself though. I've seen this enough times to know that nothing I say is even going to register. you guys have always make up your minds and that's it, let no fact, opinion, or punch in the face convince you otherwise.

 

People think I go into forums to troll them. The fact is that I put forward ideas with enough energy, and care little enough for the disagreements of influential forumites, that eventually the lion's share of the population turn out to troll me. And to keep the peace, the admins ban me, over and over again. That's just the way it happens. I put forward my ideas, go off the reservation, some influential veteran decides to put me in my place, I refuse to be put, the anthill is kicked over, chaos ensues, and the upstart is banned for daring to cross the groupthink line. It gets tiresome, but what can I do? I am what I am and they are what they are.

 

I refuse to let that narrative play out here, so feel free to have your fun guys. Knock yourselves out -- literally. I'll be here putting my ideas out until Yeszir decides otherwise, and if you don't agree with my ideas, then disagree -- civilly. This gangbang thing is a waste of my time and a violation of forum rules, and I'm not going to rise to it anymore.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Dojji

[jacksonianmarch]

Oh right, Richardson. And i know there was another s***** OF he kept pimping, but i just can't remember who it is.

 

Che-Hsuan Lin

[User Name]

Che-Hsuan Lin

 

I mentioned him before. It's someone else.