Cherrington Huge Mistake not Getting J. Upton via trade and extension

[Softlaw]

Braves send garbage to get J. Upton. He's 25 years old and the perfect long term fit for Fenway and the AL. Had they send 2nd rate prospects and put Ellsbury on the trade market to net what the DBacks wanted, they could have offered the extension that would get Upton's no-trade clause waived and acquired J. Upton and obtained the prime years of a young 25 year OF'er and still had him off the books past the age of 32. Couldn't do any better than that, and Cherry doesn't seem to understand that Manny aging out has emasculated the Red Sox offense as a feast on bad pitching and impotent against good pitching team. They have spent nearly a billion dollars on labor and management and have zero playoff wins in nearly a half a decade.

 

Dempster Dumpster is truly a joke at 26.M

 

Old Shane comes out of and Philly and LA Dumster for the joke of 39M

 

Cherry has, once again, spent over 150 million for 2013 labor. He's replaced the record incmpetence of 30 million for Ellsbury and Crawford for 2012 with 23 million for 2nd rate bums Ellsbury and Shane, two CF'ers, one who has problems showing up for work and will soon be a FA, and the other providing terrible value as a corner OF'er.

 

I've been a Red Sox fans since 1967, but I call it like I see it. They need to fire Cherrington for incompetence. This is, at best, a bubble playoff team that will not be a title contender if it does barely make the playoffs, which is dubious. And when the payroll is over 150 million and just making the playoffs is dubious, time to clean out the InEpstein and Cherry stalls and get someone like Duquette who knows what he's doing.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox were on his no trade list.

[User Name]

And he's a dog, just like his brother. Pass.

 

Oh, and stop the reactionary posts please.

[Dojji]

I do not understand the fascination with Justin Upton. He was never coming to Boston in the first place, and even if he was, he's NOT THAT GOOD. Not horrible by any stretch, but not a guy who makes or breaks a franchise.

[User Name]

I do not understand the fascination with Justin Upton. He was never coming to Boston in the first place, and even if he was, he's NOT THAT GOOD. Not horrible by any stretch, but not a guy who makes or breaks a franchise.

 

Says the fascination guy.

[Palodios]

He's NOT THAT GOOD.

 

I just want to emphasize this point.

[Dojji]

When was the last time I obsessed about a player we didn't already have.

 

Oh yeah it was probably back in 09 when I was saying that instead of trading big name talent for Victor Martinez, we should consider dealing with the Angels for Mike Napoli.

[User Name]

V-Mart was (is?) an overall better player than Napoli though.

[Whiteandnerdy42]

Yeah, sorry, but the Sox were on Uptons no-trade list and he's not actually that good; if it was someone like Giancarlo Stanton it would be a different story.

[Dojji]

Oh hell no. Better hitter, yes, probably, altough Napoli has his advantages. But as a catcher Martinez makes a good DH while Napoli has some real holes but can manage to be a nonliability back there.

 

This is all predicated on Napoli hip problem only really showing up this year of course.

 

The only reason people didn't remember VMart as the worst defensive catcher we've had in a long time is because his replacement was even worse. Which has to be factored into a decision to acquire or not acquire Napoli in 09. it would have allowed us to avoid the Salty experiment entirely, or at least cushion it with a guy who dominates the opposite hand and contain the worst of the damage when Salty absolutely can't get it done on D.

[User Name]

Hindisght. And unlike Napoli, as bad as V-Mart is, he's been a much more durable catcher. And the ability to play has value. And on what exactly do you base the claim that Napoli is/was a better overall catcher than Martinez? Seems like conjecture to me.

[SoxSport]

The Upton bros are underachievers, and the Braves are taking a chance they will mature playing together.

J. Upton had a breakout of sorts a couple of years ago, but he regressed some last year.

 

Both Uptons were traded this year by very competent organizations who know what they are doing. Tower is one of the best GMs in baseball. So you figure there must be some issues.

 

Weren't the Red Sox on J. Upton's no-trade list? They wouldn't be interested just on that account.Surprised the Yankees didn't bite.

[jacksonianmarch]

Upton is a malcontent with a big time gift for hitting the baseball. He's 25 and nearly won an MVP in 2011. His owner dogged him for a nagging injury in the offseason, he responded by sucking ass for most of the yr. His OPS in the final half of the yr was 50 points higher and his OPS in September was near .900 with 5 of his 17HR. It seems like his issues were health related. His bat in Boston would have been something to behold and considering that most players dont peak until 25-30, you're about to see him go off in Atlanta.

[User Name]

No they weren't. BJ was signed as a free agent, and prior to that he was drafted by, and spent his entire career with the Rays.

[Bellhorn04]

J. Upton has some crazy splits. 937 career OPS at home, 731 on the road.

 

Last year, in 79 road games, 305 at-bats, he had a grand total of 16 extra-base hits.

[Spitball]

J. Upton has some crazy splits. 937 career OPS at home, 731 on the road.

 

Last year, in 79 road games, 305 at-bats, he had a grand total of 16 extra-base hits.

 

Whoa! That is extreme.

 

I wonder about the trades the D-backs have made this winter. Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, and now Justin Upton for a slew of middle infielders, Prado, and prospects.

 

We know Bauer and Upton were seen as difficult to coach. Maybe Kirk Gibson just wanted to improve the clubhouse environment.

[Whiteandnerdy42]

So the chances are, then, that Upton might not do so well at pitcher-friendly Turner Field..

[jacksonianmarch]

Whoa! That is extreme.

 

I wonder about the trades the D-backs have made this winter. Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, and now Justin Upton for a slew of middle infielders, Prado, and prospects.

 

We know Bauer and Upton were seen as difficult to coach. Maybe Kirk Gibson just wanted to improve the clubhouse environment.

 

Gibson was a guy who played until his knees needed replacing. He doesnt handle prima donnas well. He's more your military style manager. He brought in a guy in Prado who is well respected, plays hard, and plays good D. They brought in Gregorius who is a whiz with the glove as well. And their OF is pretty stacked even after these moves. I like what they've done.

[Softlaw]

J. Upton, as I said in the original post that no one paid any attention, would have waived the no trade clause for the 5 year extension at about base 17M.

 

Amazing how many people don't have a clue how no-trade dynamics work. J. Upton's agent would provide the list each year to reflect the teams that he felt J. Upton would most likely be traded to so he'd have more leverage for an extension. The agent knew the Red Sox were pitiful in the corner OF for 2013, the list is submitted around the first of the year, and they also knew that BJ Upton was on the Braves. Thus the Braves were not on the no-trade. The teams that were on it would have to agree to a large extension to get J. Upton to waive that clause, which he would have. Business talks for any player, and would have trumped fraternity.

 

Oh, well, now there will be a weaker 2013 OF than 2012 OF (subtract Ross, add Gomes, and Ellbury was horrible after getting half the season to not play until he was 200%, and Shane who is a fair CF'er as a bogus corner OF'er)

 

How Cherry spends over 150 million on labor and ends up with old Ortiz, a pretzel prima donna in CF, a CF'er in RF, garbage in LF, a 10M cost S. Drew who has permanently damaged bad wheel and has been in two landfills and any boost from Fenway on splits will be wiped out by terrible SS defense range, and Dumpster, the guy who no one else wanted who was an AL bust on the cheap rental months in TX, how 150M plus is spend again and that's the active roster construction is so bad you couldn't make it up.

 

Red Sox got older, worse, and fail to understand how to construct a roster in Fenway for $100 to 120M a year and get results like the Cardinals.

 

No, I'm not a Cardinals fan.

[User Name]

J. Upton, as I said in the original post that no one paid any attention, would have waived the no trade clause for the 5 year extension at about base 17M.

 

Amazing how many people don't have a clue how no-trade dynamics work. J. Upton's agent would provide the list each year to reflect the teams that he felt J. Upton would most likely be traded to so he'd have more leverage for an extension. The agent knew the Red Sox were pitiful in the corner OF for 2013, the list is submitted around the first of the year, and they also knew that BJ Upton was on the Braves. Thus the Braves were not on the no-trade. The teams that were on it would have to agree to a large extension to get J. Upton to waive that clause, which he would have. Business talks for any player, and would have trumped fraternity.

 

Oh, well, now there will be a weaker 2013 OF than 2012 OF (subtract Ross, add Gomes, and Ellbury was horrible after getting half the season to not play until he was 200%, and Shane who is a fair CF'er as a bogus corner OF'er)

 

How Cherry spends over 150 million on labor and ends up with old Ortiz, a pretzel prima donna in CF, a CF'er in RF, garbage in LF, a 10M cost S. Drew who has permanently damaged bad wheel and has been in two landfills and any boost from Fenway on splits will be wiped out by terrible SS defense range, and Dumpster, the guy who no one else wanted who was an AL bust on the cheap rental months in TX, how 150M plus is spend again and that's the active roster construction is so bad you couldn't make it up.

 

Red Sox got older, worse, and fail to understand how to construct a roster in Fenway for $100 to 120M a year and get results like the Cardinals.

 

No, I'm not a Cardinals fan.

 

While the leverage point for no-trade clauses is mostly true, a lot of the teams in player's NTC's are actually cities where the player doesn't want to go. The whole "he'd waive his NTC for X extension" is nothing but fabrication on your part. As for the rest of your post, it's kind of whiny.

[Softlaw]

While the leverage point for no-trade clauses is mostly true, a lot of the teams in player's NTC's are actually cities where the player doesn't want to go

 

It takes a mental midget to use "mostly true". Truth isn't in factions. It's true. The extension gets the waiver of the no trade, for nearly 100 million reasons.

 

Your post is blathering contradiction.

[User Name]

Are you retarded? Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

Anyways, who would be surprised if Upton didn't want to go to Boston with the fame the team has for being racist, and the Crawford fiasco. It takes a "mental midget" to discount the possibility of it being the case.

[Softlaw]

Are you retarded? Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

Anyways, who would be surprised if Upton didn't want to go to Boston with the fame the team has for being racist, and the Crawford fiasco. It takes a "mental midget" to discount the possibility of it being the case.

 

In fact, it takes a mental midget to post drivel about "team racist" and "Crawford fiasco" as having anything to do with a decision to lock in about 100 million in an extension over zero from the Braves.

[User Name]

Because obviously, your made up scenarios are more plausible than the truth, who's the one talking drivel now? Well done sir.

 

How do these idiots end up on talksox?

[Softlaw]

Nothing made up about it. What is made up is the notion that the Red Sox couldn't have sent better garbage trade package and acuqired J. Upton with a 5 year extesnion at about base 17M a year that would have captured the best available young OF MLB talent from age 25 to age 32, which will be his best years.

 

You must be Cherry. Nice going, nearly 30 million for Shane and Ellsbury and Gomes. Crawford and Ellsbury for nearly 30 million in 2012 is a tough act of incomptence to follow. But you seem to have done it.

[Dojji]

What is made up, is your arbitrary ass-pull number of 5 years 17M. You have no idea what kind of extension he was looking for, or if he was even looking for an extension.

 

That, and you're still stuck in a fantasy world where the Red Sox are a premiere destination for FA's. That didn't seem to prove to be the case this year. There's a lot of other teams that are closer to contention and have suffered fewer blows to their reputation, just now.

[Emmz]

Nothing made up about it. What is made up is the notion that the Red Sox couldn't have sent better garbage trade package and acuqired J. Upton with a 5 year extesnion at about base 17M a year that would have captured the best available young OF MLB talent from age 25 to age 32, which will be his best years.

 

You must be Cherry. Nice going, nearly 30 million for Shane and Ellsbury and Gomes. Crawford and Ellsbury for nearly 30 million in 2012 is a tough act of incomptence to follow. But you seem to have done it.

 

Yeah, he's Ben, I'm Larry, welcome to the front office, pal.

[Behindenemylines]

Red Sox were on his no trade list.

 

The Uptons are loaded with potential and have all the tools, but not sure they are super baseball players. J-Upton didn't want to come to Boston (On no trade list) so that tells me he doesn't have what it takes to play on the big stage in Boston. Not worth the Sox unloading top prospects out of the system. I don't know the Braves system so I can't really judge what the DBacks got back in the trade. I think they were pissed off that he killed the trade with the Mariners so they got what was the best possible package.

[Softlaw]

Not worth the Sox unloading top prospects out of the system.

 

The Braves sent garbage, not top prospects. Prado was a guy they wanted to get rid of because he was becoming a FA, just like the Red Sox need to get rid of Ellsbury.

[Softlaw]

What is made up, is your arbitrary ass-pull number of 5 years 17M. You have no idea what kind of extension he was looking for, or if he was even looking for an extension.

 

A guy who has three years of control isn't turning down an 85 million dollar extension that matches the base of Matt Holdiay, you mental midget.