Nick Swisher, A MUST for the Red Sox

[Lord Snow]

I see Nick Swisher as a must sign for the Red Sox.

 

OPS over .800 in each of the past 4 seasons, career .361 OBP, 32-years-old. He plays a variety of positions where the Red Sox have holes.

 

He can slot at first base or in the outfield if necessary. His price tag is not expected to be outrageous.

 

I would happily take him for 3-years $45M with a 4th year option or 4-years $60M. I'd even consider going 5 years for him in necessary (in which he would be signed through his age 36 season).

 

Swisher is a consistent player who stays healthy and posts very respectable offensive numbers. Swish would be smart move for the offensively lacking Red Sox.

[Spitball]

I am not certain he is a must, but he is not a terrible target. If the price is reasonable, I would not mind the Sox signing him. He and Napoli would give the Sox several line up options.

[Palodios]

Swizher is an overpay. Skip that contract.

[Emmz]

Yeah, Swish at 15M a year after all the pissing and moaning over A-Gon and Drew for the last 3 years. That sounds like a stellar idea.

[3rdManOut]

4-5 years would seem to be kinda pushing it for me. I dont think I would do anything like that. I do like his numbers though.

[SoxSport]

How is Swisher on defense? 1B, RF?

 

He's a cheaper alternative to somebody like Hamilton. Maybe an alternative to Ross or Kalish. Don't know how they see him. A plus is he plays with some energy--which is sorely missing on the Red Sox right now.

 

The one guy who would energize this team--and the fanbase--would be Hamilton. But it would take Lucchino or Henry to pull that trigger.

[Orange Juiced]

Swisher for 2 years, $13 million per would work for me. Anything more in either years or dollars and I'm happy letting him go elsewhere.

[bubbakeg52]

Swisher can't hit in the postseason. I thought the Sox have 2-3 good prospects ready to play the OF. What happens if Ellsbury stays. Bradley, and Brentz, (Bogaerts is going to be moved to OF). They need a number 4 hitter that hits like a number 4 hitter for the same price as Adrian Gonzalez. Adrian Gonzalez didn't hit like a number 4 hitter when given the chance. Hamilton will.

[Lord Snow]

Swisher can't hit in the postseason. I thought the Sox have 2-3 good prospects ready to play the OF. What happens if Ellsbury stays. Bradley, and Brentz, (Bogaerts is going to be moved to OF). They need a number 4 hitter that hits like a number 4 hitter for the same price as Adrian Gonzalez. Adrian Gonzalez didn't hit like a number 4 hitter when given the chance. Hamilton will.

 

The fact that Swisher has had October struggles does not mean he can't hit in the postseason. That's like saying "he can't hit in July", but he's fine the other 5/6 months. In fact, most hitters have worse postseasons than regular seasons because they're facing better pitching on a more frequent basis which is why those teams got to October.

 

Swisher is a solid regular season contributor. Getting on base at a career .361 clip is a very important stat, as is his .820+ OPS over the last 4 seasons. A player like that will help you win a lot of ball games.

 

Hamilton is a good move. The Sox have the money to spend and I don't think Hamilton is stupid. He knows that his numbers were helped by playing in Texas, as they will be at Fenway. Which makes Boston a good place for him to play.

 

It's hard to know what the market is for Hamilton since nothing has really been reported except for saying he is seeking 7-years $175M which we all know is never going to happen.

 

I like him at 3-years $75M + $25M vesting option or 4-years $80M + $20M vesting option.

[Lord Snow]

Swisher for 2 years, $13 million per would work for me. Anything more in either years or dollars and I'm happy letting him go elsewhere.

 

I totally disagree. He is only 32-years-old (and will be for the duration of 2013) and has been consistent over the past 4 years.

 

Realistically, he is only worth 3-years $33M, but he is a free agent. And Major League free agents are almost always overpaid (unless you wait for February-March and jump all over the leftovers at a bargain).

 

I would be happy with signing him for $3-years $45M or $4-years $44M and throw him some vesting options to sweeten the pot a bit. I don't see how the Sox compete next season without signing Swisher or Hamilton and without making a trade (which Cherington has been disinclined to do, at least publicly). They are in dire need of the production. If they can get Swisher for under $50M guaranteed I think they need to do it. My biggest concern is that he gets himself a Jayson Werth-like contract from a bad team.

[jung]

The Post season is not July though. Hitters face teams that have generally better pitching in the post season and the pitchers on those teams are as focused and the intensity level is as high as it ever gets. Often the intensity levels for the hitters is also as high as they are ever going to be.

 

Swisher got overpowered at least in this last post season. Other Yankee hitters had their problems but Swisher got flat overpowered. Swisher could be a nice pick up for the Sox if he can be had for decent numbers. He is just another of a very similar basket of everyday player offerings out there this off season. There are no perfect answers to many of the questions the Sox have.

 

The posts regarding having emptied the tank for Agons and Vmart and then letting go of AGons and Vmart are right on in that they left a big hole in the developmental curve that the Sox are left struggling to fill their ML roster. You might even make the case that Bailey for Riddick did not make things any better.

[Lord Snow]

The Post season is not July though. Hitters face teams that have generally better pitching in the post season and the pitchers on those teams are as focused and the intensity level is as high as it ever gets. Often the intensity levels for the hitters is also as high as they are ever going to be.

 

Swisher got overpowered at least in this last post season. Other Yankee hitters had their problems but Swisher got flat overpowered. Swisher could be a nice pick up for the Sox if he can be had for decent numbers. He is just another of a very similar basket of everyday player offerings out there this off season. There are no perfect answers to many of the questions the Sox have.

 

The posts regarding having emptied the tank for Agons and Vmart and then letting go of AGons and Vmart are right on in that they left a big hole in the developmental curve that the Sox are left struggling to fill their ML roster. You might even make the case that Bailey for Riddick did not make things any better.

 

The Reddick for Bailey trade was a bad move in hindsight. I'm a Josh Reddick fan and I hope he improves next year. But he was a two dimensional player. Great defense in right field is definitely a premium. But offensively his only good stat was that home run total. His stock has definitely improved since the trade but even if the Red Sox still had him I don't think he would be viewed as a long-term option. Similar to Jarrod Saltalmacchia, whose only saving grace was his HR total last season, and is subsequently being shopped this offseason.

[Spitball]

This is a tough off season to turn the Red Sox around. Free agency has problems. Napoli played very poorly from June through August in 2012. Hamilton and Greinke have off field issues. Swisher will be overpaid by someone. Also, they don't need to be trading their top prospects if they want to build an affordable franchise.

 

A big problem for us fans has been the recent history of the team. We have seen two championships built using the Theo Method. But that method of throwing money at attractive free agents and trading top prospects for proven players has failed in recent years. As fans, we need to stop hoping for a return to Theo Epstein's methods. The biggest spending teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Phillies, and Dodgers) did not perform as well as hoped in 2012.

 

Now the Sox are in need of a fix...the Sox need to find something new and effective. I don't want to wait for a slow methodical process that takes years to turn the franchise around...but maybe that is best. The rebuilding process needs new and innovative ideas.

[jung]

The 2004 and 2007 teams were much better balanced teams though. There was a healthy mix of star players and tough, smart veteran ballplayers. After 2007 Theo really went off the deep end trying to fill every hole that developed with a costly FA. Worse than that, the Red Sox were making the market for players. I don't know how in God's name Theo convinced himself that made any sense. It finally got to the point where the Sox were competing with themselves for players. Other organizations must have been laughing their asses off. You know the Yanks were.

 

"Hi, Mr Agent, we are just calling back to see if you guys are still considering our last offer."

"Yes Theo at this point your's is the offer we are spending all our time with, just making sure we fully understand it...dotting our i's and crossing our t's."

"Great Mr Agent....actually we would like to up our last offer anyway. Is that OK with you?"

 

Granted I don't think Theo takes full blame because I see the hand of LL in some of this and I think Theo as much as confirmed that after he left. Still and all, Theo was in the best position to have made a case for not going down that road. Instead he just wallowed in the wretched excess, made big deal after big deal, offering guys with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel huge money.

 

If we dig out of this as quickly as people hope we will, we will never really understand the full extent of the damage that was wrought during that period. But I suspect we are not going to be that lucky.

[KCBRUIN]

Even if the Sox signed Swisher at $15 per, and Hamilton to $25 per won't the payroll still be just barely over $100 million for next year? I haven't kept track on the total we've added this offseason, but I know there's a ton of room there. I think the payroll needs to be in the 125-150 million range at least considering the money this team generates off tickets, merchandise, and tv deals.

[jacksonianmarch]

The offense with Papi and Middlebrooks will be able to get started enough to not be a liability. They just need one more bat to be a top 10 offense. The pitching needs revamping. Anything on the offensive end that drains the coffers for the pitching funds should be avoided

[Palodios]

Even if the Sox signed Swisher at $15 per, and Hamilton to $25 per won't the payroll still be just barely over $100 million for next year? I haven't kept track on the total we've added this offseason, but I know there's a ton of room there. I think the payroll needs to be in the 125-150 million range at least considering the money this team generates off tickets, merchandise, and tv deals.

 

The Red Sox's current count is around 90-100 with arbitration and the three signings so far.

[KCBRUIN]

So $130-$140 million to add both. Sounds good.

[jung]

God how we love to set ourselves up for more 10-8 defeats. Although I have to admit that whether it is because of the Green Monster or the fans propensity to be overly focused on bats or some combination of the two, the truth is that historically the Sox have never focused enough attention on pitching and have rarely had enough pitching to compete for anything.

 

The one thing that distinguished its two championship teams from the run of the mill, great in early summer but fading by September Red Sox team is that those teams had enough pitching to truly compete. While there is not much pitching to be had in this off season, if they sign to many 4-5 year deals for everyday players ala' bats, they will likely end up right back in the same frying pan they just jumped out of.....maybe with a little more flexibility if they don't jump into 7 year and 10 year deals.

[Lord Snow]

The 2004 and 2007 teams were much better balanced teams though. There was a healthy mix of star players and tough, smart veteran ballplayers. After 2007 Theo really went off the deep end trying to fill every hole that developed with a costly FA. Worse than that, the Red Sox were making the market for players. I don't know how in God's name Theo convinced himself that made any sense. It finally got to the point where the Sox were competing with themselves for players. Other organizations must have been laughing their asses off. You know the Yanks were.

 

"Hi, Mr Agent, we are just calling back to see if you guys are still considering our last offer."

"Yes Theo at this point your's is the offer we are spending all our time with, just making sure we fully understand it...dotting our i's and crossing our t's."

"Great Mr Agent....actually we would like to up our last offer anyway. Is that OK with you?"

 

Granted I don't think Theo takes full blame because I see the hand of LL in some of this and I think Theo as much as confirmed that after he left. Still and all, Theo was in the best position to have made a case for not going down that road. Instead he just wallowed in the wretched excess, made big deal after big deal, offering guys with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel huge money.

 

If we dig out of this as quickly as people hope we will, we will never really understand the full extent of the damage that was wrought during that period. But I suspect we are not going to be that lucky.

 

2004 & 2007 were built around cornerstone players.

 

Manny & Ortiz in the middle of the order were dynamite. They made the rest of the lineup better. Plus Johnny Damon was a stud at the top.

 

The Sox also had good pitching during those runs. Which was important.

 

The Red Sox have been without a true ace since 07 Beckett. Instead running out a bunch of #2s.

 

The lineup has struggled to replace the Manny & Ortiz of that stretch. Detriot has it now with Cabrera and Fielder and unsurprisingly they were in the World Series.

[Designated Hater]

Swish being a "must" is the mutterings of a franchise that doesn't know exactly how to get what it really needs. It needs youth, talent, consistent outstanding pitching, timely but patient hitting, and no Lucchino.

 

2013 will see youth and shades of talent, but I don't see outstanding pitching or patient hitting. Both pitchers and hitters will be trying to force success while trying to erase the mistakes of 2012. Can't be done on either fronts and what we'll end up getting is an improved ball club that is still going to finish under .500.

[jung]

True the dynamic duo, Manny and Ortiz, in the middle of the Sox order was critical to their success but they had the dynamic duo in a number of years. They still could not get it done until they had the pitching as well.

 

I do agree with those that think we should go after guys like Marcum and or McCarthy in short term deals as a means to shore up the pitching near term. If they don't do something like that for 2013 I just don't care who is coming to the plate to hit for the Sox...they really will be to thin in the pitching to get anything done. Yet there is nobody you can really look to as a FA pitcher this year that instills any confidence that you have really done anything to change the pitching enough.

 

Point is no matter what we do, because of the pitching situation, I think 2013 will likely end up being a lost year for the Sox. Again that does not mean we should not do a deal like Hamilton. I just think that in reality we will be preparing for a real run in 2014.

[jopete19]

So if we do sign Swisher does that mean no more Cody Ross?

[BSN07]

So if we do sign Swisher does that mean no more Cody Ross?

 

Ross is gone. He's priced himself out. Only way he comes back is if he absolutely get's nothing on the FA market. Which I don't see happening. I think whomever misses out on Upton will fo after Ross. So I think he's a Brave or a Philly.

 

 

 

As far as Swisher goes, he's a good player. But he's not that tempting at 4-5 year deal.

[Lord Snow]

So if we do sign Swisher does that mean no more Cody Ross?

 

As somebody pointed out Cody Ross is likely gone.

 

He is looking for 3-years $25M and is likely to get it from somebody.

 

I'll be quick to point out that signing Swisher does not mean no more Cody Ross. Swisher plays league average defense in right field, left field, and at first base. Right now the only one of those slots filled is by Jonny Gomes, presumably in a part-time capacity.

 

This is why I see Swisher as such a vital piece for the Red Sox to sign. They've got 3 holes, of which he is capable of filling any one, and he is a strong offensive player (albeit with some history of October struggles).

[BSN07]

I feel like Seattle, Texas, Atlanta,and Baltimore are all more likely landing spots for Swisher.

[SoxSport]

As somebody pointed out Cody Ross is likely gone.

 

He is looking for 3-years $25M and is likely to get it from somebody.

 

I'll be quick to point out that signing Swisher does not mean no more Cody Ross. Swisher plays league average defense in right field, left field, and at first base. Right now the only one of those slots filled is by Jonny Gomes, presumably in a part-time capacity.

 

This is why I see Swisher as such a vital piece for the Red Sox to sign. They've got 3 holes, of which he is capable of filling any one, and he is a strong offensive player (albeit with some history of October struggles).

 

Platooning Kalish in RF with Ross might be cheaper than Swisher, though Swisher can also play 1B.

[Lucienbel]

God how we love to set ourselves up for more 10-8 defeats. Although I have to admit that whether it is because of the Green Monster or the fans propensity to be overly focused on bats or some combination of the two, the truth is that historically the Sox have never focused enough attention on pitching and have rarely had enough pitching to compete for anything.

 

The one thing that distinguished its two championship teams from the run of the mill, great in early summer but fading by September Red Sox team is that those teams had enough pitching to truly compete. While there is not much pitching to be had in this off season, if they sign to many 4-5 year deals for everyday players ala' bats, they will likely end up right back in the same frying pan they just jumped out of.....maybe with a little more flexibility if they don't jump into 7 year and 10 year deals.

 

I completely agree. It seems like pitching is something we always forget about with this team, but it has one us the most. I don't necessarily think this is the opinion of the front office anymore, but certainly a lot of fans only notice hitting hitting hitting. While I'd like to see a bat or two added, it's a much bigger deal if they add quality arms.

[onlybereaved]

Would Swish not rather play somewhere else if given multiple options for the same contract? I wonder if he would even want to play in Boston, especially if he could play in Texas or somewhere else.

 

I disagree that signing Swisher being a "MUST" by any means. No way.

 

I would be stoked however if we did land him for 2-3 years though. Especially considering the likely farewell of Cody Ross.

[Behindenemylines]

Not sold on Swisher, plus he is asking for a lot more then C Ross and is he that much of an improvement? No!