Red Sox Hire John Farrell

[SoxFanForsyth]

Let's get one thing off the table. I have no like or dislike of John Farrell. I liked Farrell as our pitching coach. I watched a lot of Jays games over the last two seasons and observed many of these poor decisions. Their base running was consistently reckless. I have heard the Yankee announcers and Sox announcers question the way the Jays executed their running game. Also, Omar Vizquel openly questioned/criticized the coaching with regard to the running game. That is a powerful indictment. Hopefully, Farrrell will not continue the same approach with the Red Sox. Hopefully, he will instill fundamentals.

 

Like or dislike of Farrell is not an issue. Claiming that he was "the best manager currently under contract" as posted earlier by another poster just seems to me to be a huge overstatement.

 

Best manager? Sure, that's an overstatement. But best manager for the Red Sox, I don't think that's an overstatement at all. His familiarity with the Sox organization is very valuable, especially his familiarity with the pitchers, which is really where their struggles all boil down.

 

Also, Farrell publicly denied any merit to the Vizquel comments this year on WEEI today.

 

If you ask me, I think he's the perfect guy for the job right now. He's got the strong demeanor to him, gets along well with the leaders of the team, can straighten out Buch, Lester, and potentially even Lackey (who had a 4.40 ERA and 215 IP in 2010, something I think we would all kill for from our #5 man next year).

 

The fact that guys like Lester, Pedroia, and Ortiz all came out publicly and expressed how excited they are for this hiring just shows how much this hiring differs from the Valentine hiring.

 

Look - Was he manager of the year in Toronto? No. He made some mistakes. Had some hiccups. Fine. But you have to look at this from the standpoint that he knows the Red Sox organization, the core players in the Sox, and he knows how to operate this team. He also knows you can't rely on the 3 run HR and expect to go far (See: 2012 Yankees ALCS).

 

I, personally, am very confident that he and Cherrington can turn this team back into an annual contender as early as next season, but at least by 2014.

[a700hitter]

Best manager? Sure, that's an overstatement. But best manager for the Red Sox, I don't think that's an overstatement at all. His familiarity with the Sox organization is very valuable, especially his familiarity with the pitchers, which is really where their struggles all boil down.

 

Also, Farrell publicly denied any merit to the Vizquel comments this year on WEEI today.

 

If you ask me, I think he's the perfect guy for the job right now. He's got the strong demeanor to him, gets along well with the leaders of the team, can straighten out Buch, Lester, and potentially even Lackey (who had a 4.40 ERA and 215 IP in 2010, something I think we would all kill for from our #5 man next year).

 

The fact that guys like Lester, Pedroia, and Ortiz all came out publicly and expressed how excited they are for this hiring just shows how much this hiring differs from the Valentine hiring.

 

Look - Was he manager of the year in Toronto? No. He made some mistakes. Had some hiccups. Fine. But you have to look at this from the standpoint that he knows the Red Sox organization, the core players in the Sox, and he knows how to operate this team. He also knows you can't rely on the 3 run HR and expect to go far (See: 2012 Yankees ALCS).

 

I, personally, am very confident that he and Cherrington can turn this team back into an annual contender as early as next season, but at least by 2014.

What do you mean that Farrell "denied any merit to the Vizquel comments this year"? Vizquel made the comments, and he didn't deny them or back off them. You asked me upon what I based my opinion of the Jays reckless base running. I told you that my observations from many Jays games were concurred with by at least 2 sets of announcers and Vizquel. It's your prerogative to disagree with me, but I think you have known me long enough to know that I would have a pretty solid basis for making the statement.

[jung]

As I mentioned in the Valentine thread, Farrell may be at a point where he has learned from his mistakes in Toronto. That might actually be one of the strongest recommendations for him.

 

However there is no doubt that he ran the Jays into outs...there isn't anybody that watched the Jays regularly and reported on it that deny's that. Although I do firmly believe that this is a failing of first time managers generally and even we fans that insert ourselves into the job. We overcomplicate the job and often insist that many managers are bumps on a log when it comes to in-game tactics.

 

I have come to believe that over-managing is a common mistake of first time managers and will insure their failure with far more regularity than the avoidance of same. They try to make themselves somehow more relevant than they can be. I have finally come to the conclusion that managers should follow the Dr's credo of "first do no harm". The earlier they learn that, the sooner they stand a chance of actually being a "good" manager. I suspect that is however something very hard to accept for a first time manager.

[Bellhorn04]

Re the Vizquel comments, FWIW:

 

Farrell backed by Jays’ Bautista

 

By Nick Cafardo

Globe Staff / October 22, 2012

 

SAN FRANCISCO — Future Hall of Famer Omar Vizquel claimed there was a lack of leadership, and accountability, in John Farrell’s clubhouse when he managed the Blue Jays this season. The team’s biggest star disagrees.

 

On the eve of Farrell’s swearing in as Red Sox manager at a noon news conference at Fenway Park, slugger Jose Bautista, said he will miss Farrell and said the team’s poor record had nothing to do with Farrell’s managing.

 

“He’s a good man and a good leader and he tried his best with all the injuries and roster we had,” Bautista said in a telephone interview. “He’s a class act. He treated me with respect and he was always stand-up with me. His door was always open.”

 

About Vizquel’s charges that mistakes were never corrected and younger players didn’t get better, Bautista said, “I don’t know why Omar said that. And let me say this about Omar, he’s going to be a very good major league manager. He could be a manager right now, this year. But as far as what he said, I saw our coaching staff always working with players before the game trying to make them better. We have one of the hardest-working coaching staffs in baseball. We addressed those things. There’s nothing to complain about there.

[jung]

Players are always going to view something like "manager/ player interaction" through the prism of their own experience with a particular manager and whether they feel that manager had more empathy for the player, less empathy for him or the same as what the player had experienced in the past.

 

So you really are getting 25 different takes when you ask that question. We already know Farrell has had players "fear" him. Fear and empathy don't usually find themselves on the same side of the ledger. So I really don't know how to value the comment from Vizquel or any similar comment from any player for that matter.

[a700hitter]

Vizquel is a borderline Hall of Fame player who played the game the right way. He was never a troublemaker, so his comments and critcism make me sit up and take notice. In addition to the base running, the Jays teams were fundamentally unsound in all aspects.

[SoxSport]

I don't know much about the Jays, or how Farrell managed up there last year. I do know he mentioned the word aggressive, when asked to characterize his style of play. That would be a welcome change on this team. They haven't been aggressive since the dirt dog days.

 

My guess is Farrell will get what he wants this year from the FO. Why? Because, this year, it's the FO that's on the hot seat. At least with the media. Ben & Co got a free ride last year with Bobby's mouth being a convenient deflector. I see Ben has a new addition to his GM title: "executive VP". Looks like a promotion from daddy Henry. I hope he can live up to it. Henry's future as owner may depend on it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

What do you mean that Farrell "denied any merit to the Vizquel comments this year"? Vizquel made the comments, and he didn't deny them or back off them. You asked me upon what I based my opinion of the Jays reckless base running. I told you that my observations from many Jays games were concurred with by at least 2 sets of announcers and Vizquel. It's your prerogative to disagree with me, but I think you have known me long enough to know that I would have a pretty solid basis for making the statement.

 

Farrell denied any truth to Vizquel's comments in an interview on WEEI yesterday. Bautista also denied any truth to it. It sounds to me like Omar was a little pissy about a lack of playing time and was looking to stir up s***, but that's just my take

[ibot2much]

I always find the small things interesting. The other four guys were interviewed in such a way that the media all saw them walking in and walking out. Farrell has his private meeting over Chinese food at LL's house. I wondered why we never saw him at an interview before he was announced. Do you think the other four thought that their interviews were nothing more than a cover.

[jung]

Omar being borderline HOF might have as much to do with his comments as anything else. I don't think you can say categorically that at forty-five, possibly looking for enough playing time to push him over the HOF hump that Omar does not have an agenda just because he is Omar.

 

If I had my druthers, if the Sox had their hearts set on Farrell, I would have liked for him to have gotten maybe one more year in Toronto so that he had a chance to work his way out of something of a hole. I think it would have added significantly to his experience as Manager as opposed to Pitching Coach. We all know how impatient the fan base and the media in Boston can be.

 

But if Farrell can get a good staff around him, has learned that less is more from the Managers office and further realizes that the way to get your players to play for you is to make it part of your responsibility to always put each player in a position to succeed as opposed to putting him in a position to fail in the opportunities that he does get to play then I believe he can succeed here. So can somebody else for that matter.

 

The juxtaposition of Farrell vs V is so hard to feel bad about though. Regardless of whether I liked the process that brought Farrell here or whether he is the best candidate "available" I certainly can say that Farrell seems like a huge upgrade to nutcase V.

 

I have to say that the more I have thought about it, the less I wanted to see a guy's first managing job be Boston regardless of who he is or the process of choosing that might have brought him to the top of the heap.

[Behindenemylines]

How many people liked it when Tito was hired before the 2004 season? Based on his track record in Philly many thought he was the wrong guy for the job. I not saying that Farrell is going to have the success that Francona had, but I do think he has the respect of the players on day one.

[a700hitter]

Farrell denied any truth to Vizquel's comments in an interview on WEEI yesterday. Bautista also denied any truth to it. It sounds to me like Omar was a little pissy about a lack of playing time and was looking to stir up s***, but that's just my take

Vizquel's motivation is irrelevant. He brought up something that everyone around the league had noticed over the last 2 years. It's not like he was spreading a rumor. The Jay's ran the bases like idiots. I am still not sure what Farrell denied-- that Vizquel made the statements or that the team didn't run like idiots? I don't know how he can deny either.

[SoxFanForsyth]

According to Buster Olney, the compensation for Farrell came down to two players: Mike Aviles and Andrew Bailey.

 

Uh. That's laughable. It's not close. Bailey is so much better than Aviles.

[Station 13]

According to Buster Olney, the compensation for Farrell came down to two players: Mike Aviles and Andrew Bailey.

 

Uh. That's laughable. It's not close. Bailey is so much better than Aviles.

 

"so much better"?

 

Not really. Bailey didn't do squat in 2012, and 3 straight season over half of his service time were on the DL.

[SoxFanForsyth]

"so much better"?

 

Not really. Bailey didn't do squat in 2012, and 3 straight season over half of his service time were on the DL.

 

Bailey has been an all star twice. Even with his down year this past year, he's got a career 2.47 ERA. In his good, healthy seasons, he's going to give you a low to mid 2's ERA with 35+ saves.

 

Aviles's ceiling is a bench player.

 

If you're going by who is going to give you more value going forward, it's Bailey, and it's not close IMO.

[redsoxfan3]

Bailey has been an all star twice. Even with his down year this past year, he's got a career 2.47 ERA. In his good, healthy seasons, he's going to give you a low to mid 2's ERA with 35+ saves.

 

Aviles's ceiling is a bench player.

 

If you're going by who is going to give you more value going forward, it's Bailey, and it's not close IMO.

 

The thing I got out of this the most is what is Bailey's future like with the Red Sox? Is he going to be a trading chip for us? I am kind of hesitant going forward if they ware willing to give up Bailey for Farrell. That could mean we look for a new closer this year.

[Behindenemylines]

What does it say that the Jays picked Aviles over Bailey? An Bailey hasn't been given closer role for 2013 Farrell said he would compete for the job.

[redsoxfan3]

What does it say that the Jays picked Aviles over Bailey? An Bailey hasn't been given closer role for 2013 Farrell said he would compete for the job.

 

"Blue Jays/Red Sox Farrell compensation talks came down to two players: Mike Aviles or Andrew Bailey. Aviles gives TOR flexibility w/Escobar." -Buster Olney on Twitter

 

It is on several websites as well. I know that Bailey is not going to be handed the closing job.

[SCM33]

a700...

 

Why all the hate for Farrell?

 

We upgraded two spots from last year. We upgraded manager, and ANYTHING (other than Iglesias) is an upgrade at SS. The only way this hurts us, is if they plug Iglesias in at SS (which they won't).

[Behindenemylines]

Farrell gets the bench coach he wanted in Lovullo, so the communication should be 100% better then we saw last year. If the manager and the coaching staff is as big a story in 2013 as it was in 2012 then it will be another long summer. I think Rick Peterson is getting an interview for piching coach. He was with Baltimore last season and you see the improvement they had. You have heard a lot a different things about him and is methods over the years so I don't know where I stand on this yet. But having a coaching staff in place before Nov. 1 would be positive for the Sox.

[redsoxfan3]

Farrell gets the bench coach he wanted in Lovullo, so the communication should be 100% better then we saw last year. If the manager and the coaching staff is as big a story in 2013 as it was in 2012 then it will be another long summer. I think Rick Peterson is getting an interview for piching coach. He was with Baltimore last season and you see the improvement they had. You have heard a lot a different things about him and is methods over the years so I don't know where I stand on this yet. But having a coaching staff in place before Nov. 1 would be positive for the Sox.

 

Even if it is not before Nov. 1, we still have a manager and bench coach way before we did last year. It is a step in the right direction. Farrell is no guarantee to be successful in Boston, but at least BC did not mess around and went and got his guy early on. That is always a positive.

[Elktonnick]

Even if it is not before Nov. 1, we still have a manager and bench coach way before we did last year. It is a step in the right direction. Farrell is no guarantee to be successful in Boston, but at least BC did not mess around and went and got his guy early on. That is always a positive.

 

BC only got the man "he" wanted because Larry and John Henry made the deal happen with the Jays.. And Farrell was the man they wanted also. This deal in no way shows that BC is allowed much latitude as GM.

[redsoxfan3]

Instead of making a new thread for every single new coach we hire, I will just post updates in this thread. Brian Butterfield is the new 3B coach. I do not know much about him personally, but I do know that he has been a 3B coach and a bench coach for the Jays since 2002. I talked to some Jays fans and one specifically said "I will miss Butterfield. He was really the only coach that I did not want to see go. He is a hard worker and always gave everything he had." I know that is just a fan's perspective, but that is a great compliment about Butterfield. It sounds like Farrell is getting the staff that he wants. We have a manager in Farrell who has history with the Red Sox. We have a bench coach who was a managerial candidate for Boston last year and who was a former manager for the Paw Sox. We have a former bench coach in the AL East who has experience in the AL East for a little over 10 years who is now our 3B coach. I think we are making the right moves with the coaching staff. Let's hope the pitching coach is a great choice. I think we are taking steps in the right direction.