9/29 - Front Runners are All Gone

[example1]

They have not done anything very well except market for several years. That's how a juggernaut like the 2007 team got turned into this rubbish. I heard some stat the other day that the Red Sox were one of two teams not to have a rookie make a single start in 2012. Apparently, this has not happened for several years, and I think it is indicative of just how thin and weak our system is with regard to pitching. That's poor drafting.

 

Is the new mark of a successful team whether or not it has rookies starting games? That seems like a silly measure, doesn't it? Remember how you felt last year when Kyle Weiland started a few games? At least the 2011 team didn't have that claim of not having a rookie start, right?

 

Who cares if an official rookie is starting? Doubront is a 24 year old with 3 career starts prior to 2012. He's not officially a "rookie" but he started the 2nd most # of games for the team this season and is a minimum cost player.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox made their bones with solid rookies coming in and playing at all star levels when they needed it. They also allowed their rookies to start in without a lot of fan fare. Youkilis started out as a so-so 1b and then blew up into an All-Star caliber player for 3 yrs. Pedroia was your #9 hitter. Lester was your #5 starter. Buchholz as well. Papelbon was a setup guy out of the spring until he was obviously better than the detritus closing at the time (I think it was Timlin). Ellsbury started out in a platoon. Bard in a middle relief role. The beat goes on. The problem now, is that the sox are in a boiling cauldron of fan anger and these kids need to come up and play like veterans right away. That's not a good way to break in young players. If you had the 2007 rotation with Doubront pitching as he is in your #5 spot, everyone would love him, instead of sox nation being split in half over his performance.

[a700hitter]

Is the new mark of a successful team whether or not it has rookies starting games? That seems like a silly measure, doesn't it? Remember how you felt last year when Kyle Weiland started a few games? At least the 2011 team didn't have that claim of not having a rookie start, right?

 

Who cares if an official rookie is starting? Doubront is a 24 year old with 3 career starts prior to 2012. He's not officially a "rookie" but he started the 2nd most # of games for the team this season and is a minimum cost player.

I never said that it was a measure of success, but it does tell you something when a team with some of the worst pitching in baseball had no rookie options in the minors to take some starts. Our staff needed all the help it could get. Yet, there was no one in the organization that they had enough confidence in to hand the ball for even a single game just to see if they could help. Apparently, this has not happened for several seasons. It's not a measure of success or failure. You have a habit of attributing absurdly ridiculous meanings to statements. I do think the fact that no team has done this for years is indicative that we have very thin pitching talent in our minor leagues.

 

BTW: the other team to do this is the 2012 NY Mets-- another organization in disarray.

[a700hitter]

The sox made their bones with solid rookies coming in and playing at all star levels when they needed it. They also allowed their rookies to start in without a lot of fan fare. Youkilis started out as a so-so 1b and then blew up into an All-Star caliber player for 3 yrs. Pedroia was your #9 hitter. Lester was your #5 starter. Buchholz as well. Papelbon was a setup guy out of the spring until he was obviously better than the detritus closing at the time (I think it was Timlin). Ellsbury started out in a platoon. Bard in a middle relief role. The beat goes on. The problem now, is that the sox are in a boiling cauldron of fan anger and these kids need to come up and play like veterans right away. That's not a good way to break in young players. If you had the 2007 rotation with Doubront pitching as he is in your #5 spot, everyone would love him, instead of sox nation being split in half over his performance.

If you are saying that they didn't bring up guys to help because didn't want to expose them to the "burning cauldron", I'd disagree. I think they just didn't have anybody who they thought could help even though they were desperate for help.

[a700hitter]

How bad is that bag of suck Zach Stewart? LOL!!! 2 2/3 innings today 5 Earned Runs and 7 hits. Truly laughable. We are helping to hand first place to the O's with Toronto ahead against the Yankees today. Of course, we will hand it right back to the Yankees starting tomorrow, because we are just a gutless talentless leaderless bunch.

[Taz]

The way we have been going about our business it is plainly clear that everyone just wants the season done with. Hacking early in AB's and the most of the majority of the pitching is simply half-arsed.

 

The only thing we can do is act the spoiler over the next few days with the Wankees. If the O's win the division, I've no probs with that - much rather the O's win it than NY.

[Taz]

The way we have been going about our business it is plainly clear that everyone just wants the season done with. Hacking early in AB's and the most of the majority of the pitching is simply half-arsed.

 

The only thing we can do is act the spoiler over the next few days with the Wankees. If the O's win the division, I've no probs with that - much rather the O's win it than NY.

[Station 13]

Farrell used up 5 relievers to get 6 outs. The LOOGY pair fail to record an out. Toronto is ready to drive him to the airport out of town. I cannot understand why this organization keep sending message out they want him here.

[Station 13]

Joe Nathan choked when he could end the Angels season right there. What a turd.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Is it bad that I was rooting for the Orioles today?

 

I mean Sox are out of it anyway. They lose, they can get a better draft pick. And I do want to see Baltimore in the playoffs, especially over the Yankees.

[DocHolliday]

3 more to go.

 

Part of me wants us to lose to get a better draft pick and part of me wants us to knock the Yankees either out of the division lead or, depending on how the other teams play out, completely out of the playoffs.

 

Hopefully there will be a combination of both. The good news is that they secured a protected first round pick for next year's draft. The last thing I'd want to do is give one of our rivals (say, the Rangers) a 1st round pick for signing a FA like Napoli. If we are going to get back to where we once were, we are going to have to avoid giving rival teams additional 1st round draft picks at all costs.

[a700hitter]

Joe Nathan choked when he could end the Angels season right there. What a turd.

He's been a choker for many years.

[DocHolliday]

He's been a choker for many years.

 

Ask the Yankees how many times Nathan's shut them down over the years - or any reliever who pitched for the Twins over the last 10 years for that matter.

[Taz]

3 more to go.

 

Part of me wants us to lose to get a better draft pick and part of me wants us to knock the Yankees either out of the division lead or, depending on how the other teams play out, completely out of the playoffs.

 

Hopefully there will be a combination of both. The good news is that they secured a protected first round pick for next year's draft. The last thing I'd want to do is give one of our rivals (say, the Rangers) a 1st round pick for signing a FA like Napoli. If we are going to get back to where we once were, we are going to have to avoid giving rival teams additional 1st round draft picks at all costs.

 

I make no pretensions... I want us to beat the Wankees. Let the O's take the Division. We are gonna get a pretty good draft pick now as it is... No point rubbing more salt in the wound. At least a final couple of wins over NY can give us some small amount of cold comfort that we played our part in the demise of the Wankees.

[Station 13]

He's been a choker for many years.

 

yes I last remember he choked against the Yankees.

 

it's funny I seen comparison and folks say he's the 2nd best closer in baseball. Please, what has he ever done? He plays for a second rate division for his career.

[Station 13]

Ask the Yankees how many times Nathan's shut them down over the years - or any reliever who pitched for the Twins over the last 10 years for that matter.

 

I never seen any single team that bends over more than the Twins for the Yankees the last 10 years.

[DocHolliday]

I make no pretensions... I want us to beat the Wankees. Let the O's take the Division. We are gonna get a pretty good draft pick now as it is... No point rubbing more salt in the wound. At least a final couple of wins over NY can give us some small amount of cold comfort that we played our part in the demise of the Wankees.

 

I suppose winning 2 out of 3 could be some amount of redemption - particularly with how the Yankees let the Rays come back and win game 162 last year when even this year's Red Sox team could have closed out that game if given that lead and 9 outs to go.

 

But for me, the biggest good news will come in 3 days when this season is finally over. As many on this forum have said, this has been one of, or the most, trying seasons for the majority of Sox fans of this generation. It seemed for a number of years, it became really easy to dismiss how fortunate being a Sox fan really was. The last three years have really highlighted how special the period from 2003-2009 really was, even in the years we didn't win the World Series.

 

Hopefully when the Sox get back to that point, I'll be able to appreciate it even more than I did in the past.

[noreaster]

don't hold your breath buddy. we are, for the first time in decades, without any hint of what the team will look like next year. the typical lineup for september has been a triple A joke. apparently, no one in the media is pressuring the team to fess up with regard to their plans for 2013, becuase the team has been silent. i don't like it

[SoxSport]

How bad is that bag of suck Zach Stewart? LOL!!! 2 2/3 innings today 5 Earned Runs and 7 hits. Truly laughable. We are helping to hand first place to the O's with Toronto ahead against the Yankees today. Of course, we will hand it right back to the Yankees starting tomorrow, because we are just a gutless talentless leaderless bunch.

 

 

 

There are only two possible reasons to pitch Stewart a 2nd start: 1) they are desperately trying to finish last and draft in the top 10, and 2) Cherington hates to be proven wrong.

I suspect both.

 

Another tipoff: Cook is scheduled to pitch the last game in NY. That guarantees NY a win. I'm sure the Orioles are delighted, playing in Tampa.

[Bellhorn04]

Another tipoff: Cook is scheduled to pitch the last game in NY. That guarantees NY a win. I'm sure the Orioles are delighted, playing in Tampa.

 

Well, it's Cook or Matsuzaka, the O's would be thrilled in either case. We're pitching Buchholz and Lester so at least we have a semi-chance of winning a game.

[a700hitter]

Tonight's lineup against Sabathia and the Yankees:

 

RED SOX (69-90)

Ciriaco 2B

Nava LF

Ross RF

Gomez 1B

Lavarnway DH

Saltalamacchia C

Valencia 3B

Lin CF

Iglesias SS

Pitching: RHP Clay Buchholz (11-7, 4.22)

 

 

Bobby V is rolling over for them. I am sure that O's fans will love this.

[Elktonnick]

Tonight's lineup against Sabathia and the Yankees:

 

RED SOX (69-90)

Ciriaco 2B

Nava LF

Ross RF

Gomez 1B

Lavarnway DH

Saltalamacchia C

Valencia 3B

Lin CF

Iglesias SS

Pitching: RHP Clay Buchholz (11-7, 4.22)

 

 

Bobby V is rolling over for them. I am sure that O's fans will love this.

 

Other than Pedroia what's the difference? This team just got swept by the O's. They have Buccholtz their best pitcher. This team sucks. As I said except for Pedroia it don't matter. I presume Ellsbury is still "injured" with "Borasitis" in his shoulder.

[a700hitter]

Other than Pedroia what's the difference? This team just got swept by the O's. They have Buccholtz their best pitcher. This team sucks. As I said except for Pedroia it don't matter. I presume Ellsbury is still "injured" with "Borasitis" in his shoulder.

Ells had played over the weekend. Plus, why is he sitting his only legitimate star offensive player? He is rolling over.

[Elktonnick]

Ells had played over the weekend. Plus, why is he sitting his only legitimate star offensive player? He is rolling over.

 

He may be! But it don't matter! In truth, though from strictly a red sox team perspective it makes sort of sense in the long run to give these guys a chance to play in a so called big game to see what they got.