9/25 v Rays Farewell to Fenway Game 2012 Game 1

[VA Sox Fan]

RAYS (83-70)

Jennings LF

Upton CF

Zobrist SS

Longoria 3B

Scott DH

Keppinger 2B

Joyce RF

Pena 1B

Molina C

Pitching: LHP David Price (18-5, 2.58)

 

 

RED SOX (69-85)

Ciriaco DH

Nava LF

Pedroia 2B

Ross RF

Gomez 1B

Lavarnway C

Valencia 3B

Lin CF

Iglesias SS

Pitching: RHP Clay Buchholz (11-6, 4.16)

[Taz]

Good to see the 2004 team being honoured at Fenway tonight.

[Station 13]

Aviles is dead.

[mvp 78]

f*** you Nomar, you didn't win s***!

[Behindenemylines]

Buchholtz has been pitching effectively lately. Should keep the Sox in the game. He pitched a gem against Price and the Rays in his last start, but the bullpen blew up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Damn. Had tickets to tonight's game but couldn't go. That sucks.

[VA Sox Fan]

Thanks to NESN for cutting to a repeat of D&C at 7pm, I saw none of the ceremony. Was looking forward to it.

[jung]

Buch dug his own grave that time. Was Keppinger ever waiting on that thing. Yuk

[Station 13]

Buch dug his own grave that time. Was Keppinger ever waiting on that thing. Yuk

 

The pitch was flat.

 

One thing Red Sox pitcher need to do is stop going 3-2 count, the BAA against 3-2 count is around .320, OBP is around .400

 

It also gives runners a head start.

[SoxFanForsyth]

As much as I hate losing to the Rays, the more we lose, the higher our pick next year.

 

Not only that, but we are also in line to have around the 7th or 8th pick, aka a top 10 pick, aka a protected pick. So we can go out and sign a big name FA like Napoli, or even if we want to give Josh Hamilton 4 years, $100mm for example, we don't have to give up a draft pick.

[jacksonianmarch]

As much as I hate losing to the Rays, the more we lose, the higher our pick next year.

 

Not only that, but we are also in line to have around the 7th or 8th pick, aka a top 10 pick, aka a protected pick. So we can go out and sign a big name FA like Napoli, or even if we want to give Josh Hamilton 4 years, $100mm for example, we don't have to give up a draft pick.

 

I think you lose a 2nd rounder

[Station 13]

What a terrible AB from Lavarnway.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think you lose a 2nd rounder

 

Don't think so, the acquiring team gives up their 1st round pick, but the team who the FA leaves does not receive that pick, it just condenses the first round. So since the top 10 picks are protected, the Sox wouldn't lose a draft pick by signing a big name FA.

[Station 13]

Don't think so, the acquiring team gives up their 1st round pick, but the team who the FA leaves does not receive that pick, it just condenses the first round. So since the top 10 picks are protected, the Sox wouldn't lose a draft pick by signing a big name FA.

 

We lose our 2nd rounder to the former team of that FA. No longer team take the place of another team 1st round placement. Still get a compensation pick after the 1st round.

[Taz]

Buch doesn't look quite as sharp as he did last week, when he threw 7 shutout innings against the Rays. Early days. Hopefully he can keep it tight from here on in.

[jung]

Very interesting comments from Pedro Martinez with regard to the cut fast ball and why so many pitchers, especially young pitchers use it.

 

I am assuming that you folks in the game thread heard it. Maybe some folks did not. According to Pedro, many young pitchers do not know how to pitch on the inside part of the plate and use the cutter because they can control the movement of that pitch better, giving them a pitch they can use to throw inside.

 

Whether you are intending to throw a pitch for a strike or throw a pitch off the plate inside, you really do not want to miss your location. Your margin for error is pretty small on the inside part of the plate or even off the plate inside. if you miss and get to much plate you are giving pull hitters especially a chance to hand you your head. If you come to far inside you are likely in some cases to hit the batter when not intending to do so.

 

Sort of makes you wonder if pitchers other than young pitchers use it when there control starts to go awry for the same reason.

 

I think I heard Pedro also say something about seeing more of it from young pitchers in the majors these days because so many of them come up before they are really ready.

[DocHolliday]

As much as I hate losing to the Rays, the more we lose, the higher our pick next year.

 

Not only that, but we are also in line to have around the 7th or 8th pick, aka a top 10 pick, aka a protected pick. So we can go out and sign a big name FA like Napoli, or even if we want to give Josh Hamilton 4 years, $100mm for example, we don't have to give up a draft pick.

 

Hopefully the Rangers won't end up with a Jackie Bradley Jr type of prospect if they end up with our 2nd round pick.

 

As much as people lament losing Adrian Beltre, that loss netted us Swihart and Bradley when the old CBA was still in place.

 

Think of the position the Rangers would be in if they had Jackie Bradley in their system right now. They'd almost certainly let Hamilton walk after this season and wouldn't have the dilemma of who would be their future CF.

[jung]

What the hell has gotten into Gomez tonight. Making plays over at 1st like he would like to stay there next year. Was hoping he would show something at 1st cause that would be his position here anyway I am sure....if not DH on occasion.

[jung]

I forgot to add that according to Martinez the other reason pitchers like to use the cutter if they really do not know how to pitch inside is because they can use it to both LH and RH batters. The pitch will not drift either out over the plate or into the hitter.

[DocHolliday]

I forgot to add that according to Martinez the other reason pitchers like to use the cutter if they really do not know how to pitch inside is because they can use it to both LH and RH batters. The pitch will not drift either out over the plate or into the hitter.

 

I listened to a podcast a week or so ago on the extra bases blog and Jim Kaat was the feature guest. By far the biggest highlight of the podcast was when was asked about his thoughts on the cutter and why he thinks it has become so popular.

 

His response was something along the lines of "I think the reason so many pitchers are throwing the cutter today is because of Mariano Rivera and his success throwing the pitch. The problem is, nobody's Mariano Rivera - nobody has a cutter like Mariano Rivera. And, over time, everyone else's cutter can become more recognizable and hittable."

 

Even in the case of Mo, who has had brilliant and unquestionable success, I think part of it has had to do with his role in the 9th inning and only facing batters 1 time. Without the ability to see his primary pitch over a large sample, it makes sense that hitters would be more likely to fail. Of course, the few times he has failed, it seems to have come against teams that have seen him the most. Perhaps the case with other pitchers, particularly starting pitchers, is they are seen 2, 3 times a game for 2 or more games a season. Over the course of a few seasons, it's not hard for the best hitters in their division to have had over 30 PA against them.

 

Maybe this has something to do with Lester's struggles the past 2 seasons?

[jung]

Doc, I was thinking about some of the prominent Sox pitchers that have appeared to use the cutter to frequently. Surely Lester takes some heat for the number of cutters that he throws.

 

In his case, although he is a seasoned pitcher, I wonder if he started to feel like he was having trouble with control and started going to the cutter more often because it also gave him a pitch he could throw inside with some confidence that it would not end up drifting back out over the plate or into the hitter.

 

I have to wonder about pitchers going to the cutter because of Rivera's success with the pitch. It would seem obvious that if you are a starting pitching, guys are going to see your pitches through more at bats than if you are a closer as you have pointed out.

 

I am not sure that if I were a starting pitcher I would try to emulate anything that a closer is doing because the roles are so different. Three outs and goodnight is a way different deal than three outs and see ya' next half inning.

[Station 13]

This must be what Astros fans goes through the last 5 year, watching impatient hitters get themselves out and get released after the season.

[DocHolliday]

Doc, I was thinking about some of the prominent Sox pitchers that have appeared to use the cutter to frequently. Surely Lester takes some heat for the number of cutters that he throws.

 

In his case, although he is a seasoned pitcher, I wonder if he started to feel like he was having trouble with control and started going to the cutter more often because it also gave him a pitch he could throw inside with some confidence that it would not end up drifting back out over the plate or into the hitter.

 

I have to wonder about pitchers going to the cutter because of Rivera's success with the pitch. It would seem obvious that if you are a starting pitching, guys are going to see your pitches through more at bats than if you are a closer as you have pointed out.

 

I am not sure that if I were a starting pitcher I would try to emulate anything that a closer is doing because the roles are so different. Three outs and goodnight is a way different deal than three outs and see ya' next half inning.

 

Fair point.

 

I guess I interpreted Kaat's comment as him saying that pitchers in general are relying too much on the cutter and should spend more time refining and controlling their fastball. He went on to say that the fastball should be the pitch that pitchers have the most control over. So I took that as his way of saying that pitchers with the ability to consistently spot a fastball would be more effective than pitchers who rely a lot on the curveball.

 

There's been many issues that have plagued Lester's season. But it seemed like there were several games where he went to the cutter inside and it didn't cut, and he paid the price for it.

 

Maybe part of his offseason and his work in the spring should be focused on reestablishing control and confidence in his fastball so he won't have to rely so much on the cutter.