The dismemberment of the 2012 Yankees

[jacksonianmarch]

I know this will look silly if we somehow end up winning the AL East, but right now, this team is in a death spiral and absolutely sucks ******* in every conceivable way. I'd do everything possible to somehow pull a Red Sox and get out of some of these horrid contracts. And in doing so, you pair a bad contract with a good one and see if someone bites while sending over good but not great talent.

 

Transaction #1-

Deal CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira to San Francisco for Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. The Giants get the corner infield offense they are looking for an ace who wants to live in that area. The Yankees take on 1 yr of about $40 mil in bad contracts and maybe Lincecum turns it around.

 

Transaction #2-

Deal Curtis Granderson and Alex Rodriguez plus a lot of cash to the Orioles for JJ Hardy and some middling prospects. Granderson gives them a 3rd elite OFer in a park that is nice for lefties, which maintains his advantage. They also put ARod at 3rd and allow themselves to move Machado to SS. This also allows them to get out of the bad contract they just signed Hardy to.

 

Transaction #3-

If you do not resign Cano in the offseason, you deal him before the year for a massive cache of prospects.

 

This allows us to see Jeter finish his career in pinstripes, because at that point, who gives a f***. We see Swisher walk in the offseason and take a pick when he walks. We do the same with Kuroda. Pettitte can come back if he wants and so can Mo, but they wont play big parts in this season. We settle the rotation around Pineda, Hughes, and Nova. Our offense can center around Cano and we can rebuild without watching ARod decompose at 3rd or Tex get wide eyed at the RF corner. I am beyond frustrated right now, but this s*** isnt working and one more yr off the calendar wont fix it. Pull a Red Sox, blow it sky high and start from scratch

[Brennan]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[jacksonianmarch]

Or, we can line everyone up, load them full of HGH and hope for the best. The alternating 50 game suspensions would be worth it.

[Station 13]

Damnit time like this you wish the old boss still around, he would fired everyone.

[jacksonianmarch]

Damnit time like this you wish the old boss still around, he would fired everyone.

 

I really hope Hank steps up in the offseason and loses his f***ing mind, channelling George. During the good times, you wanted to mute George. During the bad times, he spoke like a fan. This season is about as big a gut punch you can get in the regular season

[Palodios]

This is a very interesting topic. Are you just throwing it against the wall? I'm sure you must know that there is no way that the Yankees go into a rebuilding mode.

 

The most likely scenario that I see is that the Yankees will spend millions on some big free agents, make some big trades that completely rip off the other team, and then coast for most of the season in 2013 to a 95 win season. You know, what they seem to do every year.

[Youk Of The Nation]

My suggestions for dismemberment of the Yankees:

 

Derek Jeter: Drawn and quartered by NYPD Police horses.

 

Alex Rodriguez: Thirty or forty dull-hatchet wielding blind children.

 

Robinson Cano: Piano wire wrapped around thighs and shoulders, tied to a rock, and dropped from a great height.

 

Nick Swisher: Hungry pack animals, preferably dingoes or coyotes.

 

Mark Teixeira: Chained to nuclear weapon set to detonate, given hacksaw with several missing teeth, dirty rag to bite down on, and inadequate timing.

 

Raul Ibanez: Each limb frozen separately in liquid nitrogen, shattered.

 

Eric Chavez: Necrotizing fasciitis

 

Joe Girardi: Angry gorilla

[Bellhorn04]

I try to enjoy these things more quietly than some people.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I know this will look silly if we somehow end up winning the AL East, but right now, this team is in a death spiral and absolutely sucks ******* in every conceivable way. I'd do everything possible to somehow pull a Red Sox and get out of some of these horrid contracts. And in doing so, you pair a bad contract with a good one and see if someone bites while sending over good but not great talent.

 

Transaction #1-

Deal CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira to San Francisco for Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. The Giants get the corner infield offense they are looking for an ace who wants to live in that area. The Yankees take on 1 yr of about $40 mil in bad contracts and maybe Lincecum turns it around.

 

Transaction #2-

Deal Curtis Granderson and Alex Rodriguez plus a lot of cash to the Orioles for JJ Hardy and some middling prospects. Granderson gives them a 3rd elite OFer in a park that is nice for lefties, which maintains his advantage. They also put ARod at 3rd and allow themselves to move Machado to SS. This also allows them to get out of the bad contract they just signed Hardy to.

 

Transaction #3-

If you do not resign Cano in the offseason, you deal him before the year for a massive cache of prospects.

 

This allows us to see Jeter finish his career in pinstripes, because at that point, who gives a f***. We see Swisher walk in the offseason and take a pick when he walks. We do the same with Kuroda. Pettitte can come back if he wants and so can Mo, but they wont play big parts in this season. We settle the rotation around Pineda, Hughes, and Nova. Our offense can center around Cano and we can rebuild without watching ARod decompose at 3rd or Tex get wide eyed at the RF corner. I am beyond frustrated right now, but this s*** isnt working and one more yr off the calendar wont fix it. Pull a Red Sox, blow it sky high and start from scratch

 

 

So this season, the Yankees are struggling to keep up with the Orioles, and part of your solution is to give the Orioles A-Rod and Granderson? Can you explain how that benefits the Yankees in any way?

[jacksonianmarch]

We blow it up, suck for a year or two then move on

[example1]

Interesting twist here Jacko. I suspect the Dodgers would be willing to take a few of the Yankees players, but not all of them.

 

This is going to be an interesting time for the Sox and Yankees. It's like the dinosaur huge-market teams are being taught a lesson. What will be fascinating is to see if the next generation of huge-market teams that are emerging, including the Dodgers, Angels and Rangers, will learn lessons or just jump right in. It is such a temptation to take well-earned money and throw it at the best available players... it's just dangerous. Texas will be faced with resigning arguably their best player to a team un-friendly contract. The Angels are already in deep and clawing to keep pace. The Dodgers, seemingly rich right now, will eventually regret their moves... I'm confident about that.

 

I'm not sure what the alternate model looks like. Perhaps it is just spending on very short contracts. Signing the best players but sticking to your guns about how long those contracts last, and if the best players go elsewhere, so be it. Teams like the Sox (who are honestly the only team in this position currently, but there will likely be more as team payrolls fall) may not spend their entire cap money and will need to be steadfast against the pressure of fans to spend. Might we see deals that pay considerably more for one or two seasons?

 

Would a two year, $66m deal for an in-prime OF be that absurd? Is that worse than getting in over your head with a 6-7 year deal? Hell, the Sox have had to pay other teams to take their players so I'm willing to bet they would be willing to pay a bit more for that flexibility. Interesting times, that's for sure.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

2 options

 

1) Blow up Yankees stadium

 

or

 

2) Hope the O's have a nice lead on the Yankees. Sweep the Yankees, let the O's kick our ass for 6 games, and have them win the AL East.

 

Either one of them will crush Jacko's heart and that make me happy

[Palodios]

The Red Sox may have the opportunity to play spoiler for the Yankees at the end of the year. That could be a fun thing to watch-- seeing the Red Sox play like it actually matters.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox may have the opportunity to play spoiler for the Yankees at the end of the year. That could be a fun thing to watch-- seeing the Red Sox play like it actually matters.

 

Not likely to happen imo. The Sox are just playing out the string at this point. Aside from Pedroia, this team is tanking.

[a700hitter]

Not likely to happen imo. The Sox are just playing out the string at this point. Aside from Pedroia, this team is tanking.

I don't think that it is lack of effort at this point, because a lot of those guys are playing for their futures down the stretch. I just don't think they have the horses to be competitive as a spoiler.

[example1]

I don't think that it is lack of effort at this point, because a lot of those guys are playing for their futures down the stretch. I just don't think they have the horses to be competitive as a spoiler.

 

I agree. That's what makes this team at least tolerable. These results from a bunch of overpaid baffoons would be different. At least this team gives effort.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure the Sox would LOVE an opportunity to knock the Yankees from the playoffs down the stretch.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the sox beat the Yankees in the upcoming weeks, it will not be because the sox played spoiler. It will be because the Yankees are sucking ass right now

[Laser Show]

If the sox beat the Yankees in the upcoming weeks, it will not be because the sox played spoiler. It will be because the Yankees are sucking ass right now

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night. No matter how bad the Yankees are right now, the Sox are worse.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

^Agreed. Has he not seen the Red Sox play lately?

[jacksonianmarch]

It seems that whenever our backs are against the wall and I lose my mind, we respond. But this team is completely dead. We lost Jeter, and now our offense is completely dead sans a 40 yr old has been in Ibanez. Assuming we complete this ridiculous collapse, we should dismember things a bit differently....

 

1. Find a way to get rid of ARod. I dont really care how you do it. Maybe you do it akin to what the Yankees did with AJ. ARod has 1 huge post season on his resume and a ring to show for it. His other offseasons in 04, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and now 12 are epically bad. Add to that the fact that he looks like a statue at 3b and appears to not give two shits about hitting to situations, I want him gone. Maybe you get someone to take on $50 mil of the $140 coming his way, but you have to find a way to move on from him. If you cannot deal him to some sucker, you have to re-sign Chavez and turn it into a platoon. Doing so might piss ARod off enough to force him into retiring or a "settlement" where he gets out of NY.

 

2. Decline Granderson's option. This must be done. Grandy sucks in CF, he no longer steals and he is as easy to K as a pitcher. The only way he hits is if someone is dumb enough to leave a fastball up. Everywhere else and ANYTHING offspeed leads to a K. You decline the option, offer the qualifying offer of $13 mil for 2013 and if he walks you get a pick. This needs to happen.

 

3. Sign Josh Hamilton. This is contingent on the ARod thing, and not the way you'd think. If we can deal ARod, then we should actually not do this and start a little offensive rebuild. If we cannot move ARod, then f*** it, we gotta do something to try and go for the now. Sign him to a huge AAV for 4-5 yrs with a drugs and alcohol clause stating that a relapse makes his contract non-guaranteed. If he sucks, follow him around with a PI, load his hotel room with booze and blow and see what happens.

 

4. Re-sign Ichiro. He should be cheap, he's responded well to NY and plays great D. Our defense in RF has been atrocious and our hitter out there (Swisher) sucks gigantic moose cock under pressure.

 

That'd leave an OF of

LF- Hamilton

CF- Gardner

RF- Ichiro

 

Then go out and sign Ortiz. Why the f*** not? Load up on guys who actually play well and get rid of some of the bums on this squad.

[jung]

I think I mentioned this in another thread but no MLB contract can be written that contradicts the terms of the CBA. Can't write a contract with Hamilton that voids his guaranteed money if he relapses. You can insure the contract which I suspect any team would do and/or do what the Sox did with Lackey which is less likely but still a possibility I guess. However you cannot write in terms that nullify Hamiton's guaranteed money. If you could we likely would have already seen contracts of that type for other "conditions" or other situations with other players.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees voided Aaron Boone's contract for violating the language of his contract. They most certainly can put a clause in the contract about drugs and alcohol

[jung]

Yea but Boone injured himself playing basketball. You can put terms into a contract that prohibit specific activities but drug addiction is not an activity. Nobody has taken a preexisting condition and voided a contract as a consequence. If they sign Hamilton, they are signing somebody with what will be considered a condition....drug addiction. Just because he is not using does not mean he is "cured" and that is the difference.

 

You can specify activities that are to be prohibited and there is even general language in the CBA that you can liberally read to allow for that....Contracts have been written around motorcycle riding and basketball playing and other "activities" but not conditions. I think Joba's contact specified a trampoline related injury and I guess the Yanks decided not to enforce it. You sign a contract with a player with a known condition and I don't think there is a way out. You can insure the contract to soften the blow or write terms into the contract that makes the player still your player for an additional period of time at a reduced salary rate....like the Sox did with Lackey. So in the case of Hamilton, they could insure the contract and they could also write in some language that said that if he had to go into recovery and missed time because if it, he would owe his team an additional year (using the Lackey example) at XYZ salary.

 

Even in the case of Lackey-ish language I think the key would be actual playing time missed.

 

Joba's situation is interesting from the perspective even of activities because it would appear the Yanks had every right to void his contract but decided against it. Point being that even in the case of activities depending on the financial commitment to the player and the perceived value of the player the team still sometimes finds itself unwilling to void.

[YAZMAN]

Clearly at this point the only answer is to liquidate the franchise.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The Yankees voided Aaron Boone's contract for violating the language of his contract. They most certainly can put a clause in the contract about drugs and alcohol

 

The only thing they can do is put a clause in there that if he misses a significant amount of time due to rehab from a relapse, then the contract becomes non-guaranteed.

 

But they certainly cannot put a clause in there regarding alcohol. Drugs, perhaps, because it's illegal. But you can't take his rights away while he's not playing, and certainly not if it doesn't affect his attendance in games.

[kapsis21]

wow i thought this thread was opened yesterday..!!

[a700hitter]

Clearly at this point the only answer is to liquidate the franchise.

and use the stadium as a homeless shelter.

[jacksonianmarch]

The only thing they can do is put a clause in there that if he misses a significant amount of time due to rehab from a relapse, then the contract becomes non-guaranteed.

 

But they certainly cannot put a clause in there regarding alcohol. Drugs, perhaps, because it's illegal. But you can't take his rights away while he's not playing, and certainly not if it doesn't affect his attendance in games.

 

You're reaching. He has had a documented problem with drugs AND alcohol. It's not about rights, it's about performing at your best. If the Red Sox can add language into Lackey's contract to add a year at minimum wage if his elbow exploded, then the Yankees can do the same with Hamilton and his addiction issues. And it's not like the Yankees would unilaterally force that on him. The language would have to be agreed upon between the signing team an Hamilton

[jung]

SFF I am interested in what language in the CBA you are referring to that would allow any team to make a player contract non-guaranteed based on a condition.

 

As for activities that are illegal, of course a player would have to be prosecuted and found guilty of a crime for the language in the CBA regarding such activity to have relevance. I think that is what you are referring to under "rights" and if I have accurately judged your meaning you are right in that regard. If in fact a player is found guilty of illegal activity, the commissioner of baseball has the only rights and authority with regard to punishing the player relative to issues that pertain to the pursuit of his ML career. The team only has rights if the commissioner relinquishes his rights to the team. Since this is in the CBA, a team could not write language into a specific contract with a player that would supersede that language.

 

All of the other relevant language is in the Standard Contract which is Schedule A of the CBA. Item 4 Condition allows that:

The Player represents that he has no physical or mental defects known to him and unknown to the appropriate representative of the Club which would prevent or impair performance of his services.

 

So this provision provides that there might be a crack open to the club if the club is not aware of a condition the player had AND WAS AWARE OF when the player signed the contract. But that is a two street. As long as the player has in fact adhered to item 4, then the team knows what condition or conditions the player has and as such, agrees to sign the player regardless. That very much limits team action relative to a "condition".

 

Item 5 of the Standard Contract covers "other sports" and stipulates that:

The Player and the Club recognize and agree that the Player’s participation in certain other sports may impair or destroy his ability and skill as a baseball player. Accordingly, the Player agrees that he will not engage in professional boxing or wrestling; and that, except with the written consent of the Club, he will not engage in skiing, auto racing, motorcycle racing, sky diving, or in any game or exhibition of football, soccer, professional league basketball, ice hockey or other sport involving a substantial risk of personal injury.

 

This is the item in the contract that would allow the club to specifically note other sports and/or activities that the club could stipulate. A player that did not act in accordance with those stipulations would have violated his contract. So, I absolutely believe you can write language into a contract that would allow a team to void a contract if a player engages in an activity which carries an risk of injury that the club is unwilling to sustain. The club would add such stipulations to item 5 of the Standard Contract.

 

But my point SFF is that there is no such thing as a non-guaranteed ML contract. The remedies available to the team are to void or not void. The team cannot write language into the contract that would under a certain set of circumstances turn the contract from guaranteed to non-guaranteed as that would again directly conflict with language in the CBA. You cannot write a ML contract that conflicts with the CBA.

[jung]

I believe that Jacko is correct with reference to Lackey-ish language added to a contract. However, the remedies available to the club are narrowly defined and relate to "playing time missed". So going back to the Lackey language, Lackey had to miss time in order for the language that related to his known condition to kick in. That language did nothing to change Lackey's salary during the active term of the contract and any effort to do so in the contract would have resulted in a contract that neither the league nor the Players Association would have allowed. It simply allowed that if a certain amount of time was missed then Lackey owed the Sox an additional year of contractual obligation to play for the Sox and only the Sox (unless the Sox traded him or relinquished their rights by some other means) and he owed the Sox that year at a considerably reduced rate of pay. I am convinced that very similar language could be applied in Hamilton's case as well, as the parallels are unmistakable. Both Lackey and Hamilton have conditions known to the clubs involved. There certainly is the possibility that Hamilton would miss playing time and Lackey certainly did. Hence the same remedy could be applied in Hamilton's case as it was applied in Lackey's case.

 

The only "beef" I might see the Players Association raise is that Lackey's stipulation related to an injury all parties agreed was sustained as a consequence of Lackey's participation in baseball while Hamilton's condition is not. However if the Players Association adopted that line, I believe they would fail. Who is to say for example in the Lackey situation that the genesis of his injury began before he started his ML career? Therefore I think it improbably that the Players Association could successfully imply any practical difference between Lackey's elbow and Hamilton's condition from a ML contract perspective.