Valentine's job

[RedSoxNC84]

I wasn't sure if it would last long, but I didn't think it would be over this soon.

[Elktonnick]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for the guy. Red Sox managers always to seem to go out ugly.

 

Shaughnessy is doing a book on Francona I believe with Tito's support. Can you imagine a sequel from BV's point of view if he gets let go the same way Tito did.?

[Bellhorn04]

They should have paid Valentine a healthy bonus to agree not to write any books for a few years after the end of his tenure.

[Elktonnick]

They should have paid Valentine a healthy bonus to agree not to write any books for a few years after the end of his tenure.

 

He'd just do a documentary instead!

[SouthieFanatic]

I like Bobby V as a guy, but it's not going to work out here. As long as he's manager the sox wil be ways away from doing better. He's a guy you have a beer with not a guy to manage the Boston Red Sox

[wyo-sox]

Did anyone hear Bobby call out the media on the big show? He told Ordway that he would punch him in the face if he was there with him, lol.

[Behindenemylines]

The media doesn't like BV and they are destroying him with the negative press. The more he trashes them the worse it will get. They want to be proven right that BV was not the right choice to follow Tito. I think the FO is being pushed into a corner, if they bring BV back then the press will target them. You have already started to here this after they failed to can BV when they went out to Seattle.

[mvp 78]

They don't go after Bobby to be proven right, they go after him because he provides tremendous quotes and is the only interesting part of the Sox right now.

[Bellhorn04]

They don't go after Bobby to be proven right, they go after him because he provides tremendous quotes and is the only interesting part of the Sox right now.

 

You're right. BV is the only story left this year and the Boston media is now focussed on him 24-7.

[SCM33]

Shaughnessy is doing a book on Francona I believe with Tito's support. Can you imagine a sequel from BV's point of view if he gets let go the same way Tito did.?

 

The day Bobby V is canned, he will tell everyone who will listen just exactly he had to deal with. He wont wait for a book....he has too much of a diarrhea mouth to hold it in much longer than 5 minutes after hes fired.

 

He will spill it, He will tell us everything that went wrong.

[jung]

The self-congratulatory, overly important Boston media strikes again. You could easily make the case that V has been lost in his role as Manager of the Sox. Bringing in a guy ten years out of a role in any dugout was doomed from the start...a pure PR move that has been exposed for what it was.

 

However, now V must go not for the many real baseball associated reasons and issues that have arisen this year but because of the way V responded to being baited on WEEI's Big Show. While they have had an opportunity to talk baseball with Boston's Manager all season long for the most part they have simply tried to goad him into just the sort of behavior he exhibited yesterday on the air. How was V to have responded when asked if he has "checked out" if he is "trying to get fired".

 

So this morning...today....V must go because of his behavior in the EEI interview. I can take just about anything and have just about seen everything that the Boston media is capable of but when they call for a guys job because of how he reacted in an environment like that EEI interview to me says more about the Boston media than it says about V or the Red Sox.

[Orange Juiced]

The day Bobby V is canned, he will tell everyone who will listen just exactly he had to deal with. He wont wait for a book....he has too much of a diarrhea mouth to hold it in much longer than 5 minutes after hes fired.

 

He will spill it, He will tell us everything that went wrong.

 

That will be incredible theater. Get the popcorn ready.

[mvp 78]

I couldn't give 2 shits what Bobby has to say. He's turning into a joke and has firebombed his career. I'm sure he'll ripeveryone via Nick Cafardo, but it won't matter. He was the wrong hire and the person that should be taken down is LL.

[Elktonnick]

The self-congratulatory, overly important Boston media strikes again. You could easily make the case that V has been lost in his role as Manager of the Sox. Bringing in a guy ten years out of a role in any dugout was doomed from the start...a pure PR move that has been exposed for what it was.

 

However, now V must go not for the many real baseball associated reasons and issues that have arisen this year but because of the way V responded to being baited on WEEI's Big Show. While they have had an opportunity to talk baseball with Boston's Manager all season long for the most part they have simply tried to goad him into just the sort of behavior he exhibited yesterday on the air. How was V to have responded when asked if he has "checked out" if he is "trying to get fired".

 

So this morning...today....V must go because of his behavior in the EEI interview. I can take just about anything and have just about seen everything that the Boston media is capable of but when they call for a guys job because of how he reacted in an environment like that EEI interview to me says more about the Boston media than it says about V or the Red Sox.

 

 

Regardless of what one thinks about BV, one of the more specious arguments against his hire is the fact that he had been out of baseball for ten years. Forgetting the fact that he did manage successfully in Japan, both Dan Duquette and Davy Johnson were out of MLB longer. Who can argue with eithers success. Some may view BV's tenure as a failure. If it is a failure it isn't because he was out of MLB for ten years.

[wyo-sox]

Most of you guys know more baseball history than I. Has anyone Ever held the position of manager and GM at the same time?

[jung]

Regardless of what one thinks about BV, one of the more specious arguments against his hire is the fact that he had been out of baseball for ten years.

 

It was V himself who said that he did not realize that players now liked to be communicated with via text message and that not having realized that made communicating with his players difficult early in his tenure. Having missed that one surely makes you wonder what else V had missed in his ten year absence from an ML dugout.

 

Most people agree that the single most important thing a baseball manager brings to the table (as opposed to what a football coach brings to the table) is the way he molds the team into a single cohesive, unified, "successful" force, getting the most out of them in the process. How was V to have a shot at that having missed such a basic element of communicating with the players as individuals. Seems to me that all V did was give them something to chuckle about for being so far behind the curve.

 

I will grant you that sending a text does not carry the impact of other means but that sheds some light on the very idea that a Manager in this day and age can ramrod his way to gaining control over a team of modern day ML baseball players. There is nothing V learned in Japan that has helped him here and if anything Pedey having mentioned V's tenure in Japan as meaningless in his response in the Youk mess speaks to that. So it is hard to look at V's success in Japan and say it has helped him...at all.

 

So what else has changed in the interim that V has missed? What communications technologies and information technologies that V probably understands but that he simply does not realize are applicable to the dugout has he missed?

 

I would ask the question about his ten year absence the other way. What about V suggested to LL that he should ignore his ten year absence from an ML dugout? I think there is one thing and one thing only. V made the biggest PR splash and provided the kind of chaos that LL really wanted from a PR perspective. LL certainly got that in spades.

 

The fly in the ointment for LL is that the Sox have failed so spectacularly that you cannot look at V as the primary cause for their failure. A ML Manager simply does not have that sort of game to game influence for one thing. For another these players have simply continued their September 2011 performance for a longer period, to and through the 2012 season. Two completely different managers, two completely different approaches.....same result, a failed team that failed to even compete. That forces us to realize that the major issues reside within elements of the team and organization that predate V, that being upper management, baseball operations and in the main, the players themselves.

 

It has been clear that upper management did not want to add to the dollars they were already committed to spend for this year but I do think they had little confidence in this team as constructed before the first pitch of 2012 opening day. To an extent, I think LL has gotten what he wanted. He has gotten the chaos and the distractions and the headlines that he wanted. He has furthered the sell out streak at least to this point. They got through all of their 100 year marketing ******** deals probably not with the success they had wanted. But, then again, how many bricks and bats do you have to sell at $150.00 a pop to succeed anyway.

 

So LL almost pulled it off....almost. Even he could not and likely did not envision this "team" failing so spectacularly, so completely. While the media is now totally focused on V it is because there is really so little left worth focusing on with regard to the 2012 team and season itself.

 

Notice that LL will be missing the Thursday date he has kept with WEEI and that he had indicated he really had grown to appreciate. Sure LL, just keep pumping the ******** LL.

[Elktonnick]

It was V himself who said that he did not realize that players now liked to be communicated with via text message and that not having realized that made communicating with his players difficult early in his tenure. Having missed that one surely makes you wonder what else V had missed in his ten year absence from an ML dugout.

 

Most people agree that the single most important thing a baseball manager brings to the table (as opposed to what a football coach brings to the table) is the way he molds the team into a single cohesive, unified, "successful" force, getting the most out of them in the process. How was V to have a shot at that having missed such a basic element of communicating with the players as individuals. Seems to me that all V did was give them something to chuckle about for being so far behind the curve.

 

I will grant you that sending a text does not carry the impact of other means but that sheds some light on the very idea that a Manager in this day and age can ramrod his way to gaining control over a team of modern day ML baseball players. There is nothing V learned in Japan that has helped him here and if anything Pedey having mentioned V's tenure in Japan as meaningless in his response in the Youk mess speaks to that. So it is hard to look at V's success in Japan and say it has helped him...at all.

 

So what else has changed in the interim that V has missed? What communications technologies and information technologies that V probably understands but that he simply does not realize are applicable to the dugout has he missed?

 

I would ask the question about his ten year absence the other way. What about V suggested to LL that he should ignore his ten year absence from an ML dugout? I think there is one thing and one thing only. V made the biggest PR splash and provided the kind of chaos that LL really wanted from a PR perspective. LL certainly got that in spades.

 

The fly in the ointment for LL is that the Sox have failed so spectacularly that you cannot look at V as the primary cause for their failure. A ML Manager simply does not have that sort of game to game influence for one thing. For another these players have simply continued their September 2011 performance for a longer period, to and through the 2012 season. Two completely different managers, two completely different approaches.....same result, a failed team that failed to even compete. That forces us to realize that the major issues reside within elements of the team and organization that predate V, that being upper management, baseball operations and in the main, the players themselves.

 

It has been clear that upper management did not want to add to the dollars they were already committed to spend for this year but I do think they had little confidence in this team as constructed before the first pitch of 2012 opening day. To an extent, I think LL has gotten what he wanted. He has gotten the chaos and the distractions and the headlines that he wanted. He has furthered the sell out streak at least to this point. They got through all of their 100 year marketing ******** deals probably not with the success they had wanted. But, then again, how many bricks and bats do you have to sell at $150.00 a pop to succeed anyway.

 

So LL almost pulled it off....almost. Even he could not and likely did not envision this "team" failing so spectacularly, so completely. While the media is now totally focused on V it is because there is really so little left worth focusing on with regard to the 2012 team and season itself.

 

Notice that LL will be missing the Thursday date he has kept with WEEI and that he had indicated he really had grown to appreciate. Sure LL, just keep pumping the ******** LL.

 

It is specious because others have been out longer and been successful. The length of time between BV's MLB managerial stints are of minor significance as why he has failed if one chooses to believe that his stint here did not accomplish its objectives.

[FenwayWest]

If he makes it through the weekend, I think he makes it through the season... No point in firing a guy 24 games short of the season...

 

I also think he might be intentionally trying to be fired... Much the way a slimeball tries to get fired from a job in order to collect unemployment. Though for whatever they're paying him...

 

But at the same time, I don't blame him for not quitting, who would walk away from that amount of money if you know you can stick it out another few weeks and get paid to sit home and do nothing for a year?

[VA Sox Fan]

Have you all seen the cover of the upcoming 9/10 Sports Illustrated? Not flattering for BV or the Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

Have you all seen the cover of the upcoming 9/10 Sports Illustrated? Not flattering for BV or the Red Sox.

Should they be flattered? They stunk up the entire league.

[VA Sox Fan]

Should they be flattered? They stunk up the entire league.

 

I meant for the entire Red Sox organization, smart arse!

[a700hitter]

I meant for the entire Red Sox organization, smart arse!

The entire organization deserves to be embarrassed. It's not all Bobby V's fault.

[VA Sox Fan]

The entire organization deserves to be embarrassed. It's not all Bobby V's fault.

 

I agree but still think he was the wrong guy to hire.

[a700hitter]

I agree but still think he was the wrong guy to hire.

Ghere was no right guy for this team. The organization stinks from top to bottom. They s*** the bed for Tito last September in a mind-blowing record setting manner. His low energy style would not have had any better results with this group. I get that you don't like Bobby V, but this train wreck was not all on him-- not even close. He will get fired, because managers just don't survive seasons like this. The stench of losing needs to be cleansed and the easiest place to start is with the manager.

[Orange Juiced]

Ghere was no right guy for this team. The organization stinks from top to bottom. They s*** the bed for Tito last September in a mind-blowing record setting manner. His low energy style would not have had any better results with this group. I get that you don't like Bobby V, but this train wreck was not all on him-- not even close. He will get fired, because managers just don't survive seasons like this. The stench of losing needs to be cleansed and the easiest place to start is with the manager.

 

Agree 100%. There is a problem with this FRANCHISE. Top to bottom.

[VA Sox Fan]

Ghere was no right guy for this team. The organization stinks from top to bottom. They s*** the bed for Tito last September in a mind-blowing record setting manner. His low energy style would not have had any better results with this group. I get that you don't like Bobby V, but this train wreck was not all on him-- not even close. He will get fired, because managers just don't survive seasons like this. The stench of losing needs to be cleansed and the easiest place to start is with the manager.

 

No, I have never liked him. But I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and had high hopes that he would succeed. You may be right that no manager would have had success with this current group. But we'll never know for sure.

 

I agree about the top to bottom thing as well. I also want Lucchino gone.

[a700hitter]

No, I have never liked him. But I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and had high hopes that he would succeed. You may be right that no manager would have had success with this current group. But we'll never know for sure.

 

I agree about the top to bottom thing as well. I also want Lucchino gone.

He has had a less talented group than Tito had and September 2011 was worse than what have seen thus far. I think we have a good chance of being worse this September, but the talent level is not even close to what it was last September.

[Elktonnick]

No, I have never liked him. But I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and had high hopes that he would succeed. You may be right that no manager would have had success with this current group. But we'll never know for sure.

 

I agree about the top to bottom thing as well. I also want Lucchino gone.

 

Lucchino isn't half the problem that John Henry is. The fish rots from the top.

[VA Sox Fan]

Lucchino isn't half the problem that John Henry is. The fish rots from the top.

 

How is that? You can't get rid of the principal owner can you?

[ibot2much]

How is that? You can't get rid of the principal owner can you?

 

 

 

Not unless he sells